Discussion:
Relativistic raising of the Djed-pillar
(too old to reply)
George Hammond
2010-07-24 03:01:50 UTC
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THE DJED-PILLAR

The Djed-pillar was a ubiquitous divine symbol in ancient
Egypt. It ranks perhaps second only to the Ankh as a
religious symbol yet no one knows the origin of the
Djed-pillar. Budge thought it was a mason's table which I
find incredible while some have suggested it was originally
a Nileometer.
Doubtlessly the suggestive psychological form of the
object places it in the common "Venetian blind" category
which is well known to evoke a visual nuance of
transcendence.
In addition, there was a well established Heb-Sed
ceremony known as the "Raising of the Djed-pillar" which is
shown in a startling realistic bas-relief in the temple of
Seti-I at Abydos. The act of "raising" the pillar seems to
add force to the conjecture that the Venetian blind like
structure does indeed symbolize "transcendent perception",
and that the Pharaoh perhaps was held responsible for
"raising the bar" of the general perceptual level of the
population. The Djed pillar in other words was the
pre-Christian symbol of what is referred to as the
"transfiguration" in modern religion... or perhaps more
accurately the "Holy Spirit" itself.
The modern "Cross" has long since replaced the Ankh and
one wonders if perhaps the Nimbus (i.e. "halo") of modern
Christian art has perhaps replaced the Djed symbol?
Does Anyone have any other theories as to what the
symbolic meaning of the Djed-pillar actually was or from
whence the physical form of the object originated?
George Hammond
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John Stafford
2010-07-24 11:49:25 UTC
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Post by George Hammond
Does Anyone have any other theories as to what the
symbolic meaning of the Djed-pillar actually was or from
whence the physical form of the object originated?
It was a boner. Symbol of life with stability.
George Hammond
2010-07-24 16:10:04 UTC
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On Sat, 24 Jul 2010 06:49:25 -0500, John Stafford
Post by John Stafford
Post by George Hammond
Does Anyone have any other theories as to what the
symbolic meaning of the Djed-pillar actually was or from
whence the physical form of the object originated?
It was a boner. Symbol of life with stability.
[Hammond]
Thanks for your Google-recitation but the psychological
observations of line professional academics is hardly of
interest to serious investigators.
I think the Djed more accurately represents the "spiritual
Plimsolll line" of the human race.
Nevertheless, this still does not shed any light on the
actual functional origin of the object; if any. The
Nileometer suggestion seems most cogent to me.
========================================
GEORGE HAMMOND'S PROOF OF GOD WEBSITE
Primary site
http://webspace.webring.com/people/eg/george_hammond
Mirror site
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HAMMOND FOLK SONG by Casey Bennetto
http://interrobang.jwgh.org/songs/hammond.mp3
=======================================
George Hammond
2010-07-24 16:18:56 UTC
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On Sat, 24 Jul 2010 12:10:04 -0400, George Hammond
Post by George Hammond
On Sat, 24 Jul 2010 06:49:25 -0500, John Stafford
Post by John Stafford
Post by George Hammond
Does Anyone have any other theories as to what the
symbolic meaning of the Djed-pillar actually was or from
whence the physical form of the object originated?
It was a boner. Symbol of life with stability.
[Hammond]
Thanks for your Google-recitation but the psychological
observations of line professional academics is hardly of
interest to serious investigators.
I think the Djed more accurately represents the "spiritual
Plimsolll line" of the human race.
Nevertheless, this still does not shed any light on the
actual functional origin of the object; if any. The
Nileometer suggestion seems most cogent to me.
[Hammond]
PS: I think we can even identify the Djed-pillar as the
forerunner of the "Crucifix" of the Christian era.
Post by George Hammond
========================================
GEORGE HAMMOND'S PROOF OF GOD WEBSITE
Primary site
http://webspace.webring.com/people/eg/george_hammond
Mirror site
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HAMMOND FOLK SONG by Casey Bennetto
http://interrobang.jwgh.org/songs/hammond.mp3
=======================================
========================================
GEORGE HAMMOND'S PROOF OF GOD WEBSITE
Primary site
http://webspace.webring.com/people/eg/george_hammond
Mirror site
http://proof-of-god.freewebsitehosting.com
HAMMOND FOLK SONG by Casey Bennetto
http://interrobang.jwgh.org/songs/hammond.mp3
=======================================
eric gisse
2010-07-24 19:20:29 UTC
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George Hammond wrote:
[...]

Looks like [Hammond] is out of the ward again.
George Hammond
2010-07-24 22:31:33 UTC
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X-No-Archive: Yes


On Sat, 24 Jul 2010 12:20:29 -0700, eric gisse
Post by eric gisse
[...]
Looks like [Hammond] is out of the ward again.
[reply to eric gisse]
Hey fatso.. somebody told me you had a
sex change operation... what's your new
transgender name gonna be- erica...?
========================================
GEORGE HAMMOND'S PROOF OF GOD WEBSITE
Primary site
http://webspace.webring.com/people/eg/george_hammond
Mirror site
http://proof-of-god.freewebsitehosting.com
HAMMOND FOLK SONG by Casey Bennetto
http://interrobang.jwgh.org/songs/hammond.mp3
=======================================
eric gisse
2010-07-24 23:48:52 UTC
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Post by George Hammond
On Sat, 24 Jul 2010 12:20:29 -0700, eric gisse
Post by eric gisse
[...]
Looks like [Hammond] is out of the ward again.
[reply to eric gisse]
Hey fatso.. somebody told me you had a
sex change operation... what's your new
transgender name gonna be- erica...?
Looks like you need your medication adjusted.
Post by George Hammond
========================================
GEORGE HAMMOND'S PROOF OF GOD WEBSITE
Primary site
http://webspace.webring.com/people/eg/george_hammond
Mirror site
http://proof-of-god.freewebsitehosting.com
HAMMOND FOLK SONG by Casey Bennetto
http://interrobang.jwgh.org/songs/hammond.mp3
=======================================
George Hammond
2010-07-25 00:31:44 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
X-No-Archive: Yes


On Sat, 24 Jul 2010 16:48:52 -0700, eric gisse
Post by eric gisse
Post by George Hammond
On Sat, 24 Jul 2010 12:20:29 -0700, eric gisse
Post by eric gisse
[...]
Looks like [Hammond] is out of the ward again.
[reply to eric gisse]
Hey fatso.. somebody told me you had a
sex change operation... what's your new
transgender name gonna be- erica...?
Looks like you need your medication adjusted.
[reply to erica gisse]
Loosen that man-bra meister
its making you squeal.
Sorry stalker... no more off topic
... you're just too stupid.
========================================
GEORGE HAMMOND'S PROOF OF GOD WEBSITE
Primary site
http://webspace.webring.com/people/eg/george_hammond
Mirror site
http://proof-of-god.freewebsitehosting.com
HAMMOND FOLK SONG by Casey Bennetto
http://interrobang.jwgh.org/songs/hammond.mp3
=======================================
Immortalist
2010-07-25 03:31:39 UTC
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        ____
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      =====
THE DJED-PILLAR
   The Djed-pillar was a ubiquitous divine symbol in ancient
Egypt.  It ranks perhaps second only to the Ankh as a
religious symbol yet no one knows the origin of the
Djed-pillar.  Budge thought it was a mason's table which I
find incredible while some have suggested it was originally
a Nileometer.
   Doubtlessly the suggestive psychological form of the
object places it in the common "Venetian blind" category
which is well known to evoke a visual nuance of
transcendence.
   In addition, there was a well established Heb-Sed
ceremony known as the "Raising of the Djed-pillar" which is
shown in a startling realistic bas-relief in the temple of
Seti-I at Abydos.  The act of "raising" the pillar seems to
add force to the conjecture that the Venetian blind like
structure does indeed symbolize "transcendent perception",
and that the Pharaoh perhaps was held responsible for
"raising the bar" of the general perceptual level of the
population.  The Djed pillar in other words was the
pre-Christian symbol of what is referred to as the
"transfiguration" in modern religion... or perhaps more
accurately the "Holy Spirit" itself.
  The modern "Cross" has long since replaced the Ankh and
one wonders if perhaps the Nimbus (i.e. "halo") of modern
Christian art has perhaps replaced the Djed symbol?
   Does Anyone have any other theories as to what the
symbolic meaning of the Djed-pillar actually was or from
whence the physical form of the object originated?
George Hammond
Looks like a hard problem after poking around the web, lots of dead
ends.

Soon after its first appearance 8,000 years ago cattle cults became
widespread, leading some scholars to propose cattle were domesticated
mainly for religious purposes.

Calvin Schwabe: This was the largest animal, the bravest animal, the
swiftest, the most libidinous animal, and he was much admired by early
chiefs. for three thousand years the Pharaoh's principal epithet was
mighty bull.

Jonica Newby: Even the great pharoahs held the mighty bull in awe.
Which ultimately held the key to what, for most of this century, was
one of the greatest riddles in Egyptology.

The mystery concerned three of most important hieroglyphics in ancient
Egypt. Although their meanings were quite quickly deciphered, no one
could work out their origin. They were:
the Ankh - symbol of life;
the Djed - symbol of stability;
And the Was - the staff held by the Pharaohs - symbol of power and
dominion.

The clues to the mystery were everywhere, but it would take a
veterinarian working in Africa to see what the Egyptologists could
not. The eureka moment came during a routine autopsy, as Professor
Calvin Schwabe sliced through the back of a bulls spine.

Calvin Schwabe: So I exposed against the red of the muscle, muscles of
the animal, the white thoracic vertebra and just entered my head,
that's the Ankh.

Jonica Newby: He realised he had the answer to the Pharaohs' ancient
riddle. The thoracic vertebra was the source of the Ankh. The base of
the spine, the sacrum, was the source of the Djed.

Image: Calvin ScwabeBut what about the Was? There aren't any bones
that look like that. Which part of the anatomy could it be? The
solution took a lesson in ancient Egyptian biology.

The Egyptians believed that semen was formed in the spinal fluid, if
you understand that, the rest makes sense. So the essence of life
starts here in the Ankh - it flows down through the vertebral canal,
past the strong base of the spine (the Djed), and out through the
penis, the Was - symbol of power.

Schwabe:Here's a dried bull's penis. Now this is a domestic bull. It's
about a meter long. This was carried as a staff by the gods and also
by the Pharoah. You can dry it so it's absolutely straight. Here is a
bull calf, just to get one that's a reasonable size, and this is dried
straight and is dried in this same position so you can make a Was very
easily.

Jonica Newby: The power of cattle went well beyond the merely
symbolic. But before it could be harnessed, there were two small
problem to overcome.

If you think this looks like a lot of bull, you should have seen its
ancestor, the mighty auroch. It was much taller, its horns were a
metre long - and it could use them. The real key to harnessing the
power of this ancient monster was back here. It's what you don't see
that matters. It took the invention of castration - removing the much-
admired libido - that was the key to making the beast tractable.

Once in traction, cattle drove the emerging economies of the ancient
world. Humanity had an energy source greater than our own muscles.
Simple digging stick agriculture was replaced by intensive
cultivation.

And with the wealth generated by large scale farming, for the first
time people could specialise. They could become writers, painters and
politicians. They could create civilisation.

Jared Diamond: With agriculture, we developed political organisation,
we developed the ability to feed specialists, including people who'd
invent metal tools and writing and printing presses. We develop the
needs for tax-collectors and we developed organized religion. All of
that came after the rise of farming.

http://www.abc.net.au/animals/program2/transcript2.htm

How did they build the pyramids? ...the use of the wind to lift and
move large stones...

...The djed pillar is the symbol of stability, often standing on Maat,
the god of truth (a solid foundation). The pillar has three places
near its top where ropes may be wound around the pillar. The ropes
might be used to hold a kite from flying away. In some illustrations
the middle groove has both of the eyes of Horus or is simply colored
red. It could be that the rope from the middle section went up to the
kite Horus. The other two rope sections are colored black and might
have been anchored to the ground. The pillar was the tool that allowed
the kite and its load to move laterally to the wind direction.

http://www.everleaf.com/pyramids/egypt.htm

According to Wallis Budge, the Djed is the oldest symbol of Osiris,
and symbolizes his backbone and his body in general. He states that
originally Osiris was probably represented by the Djed alone, and that
he had no other form. He regards the Djed hieroglyph as a
conventional representation of a part of his spinal column and gives
its meaning as "to be stable, to be permanent, abiding, established
firmly, enduring.

The reconstruction of the body of Osiris occurred at a place called
Djedu,in the Delta region of Lower Egypt and it was here that the
yearly ceremony of 'Raising the Djed Pillar' took place on the last
day of the month of Khoiak, the eve of the agricultural New Year. The
next day marked the beginning of the four month long season of Pert,
or 'Going Forth' during which the lands rose out of the flood waters
allowing the fields to be sown.Djedu was also referred to as Per-Asar-
Neb-Djedu, meaning "The House of Osiris - the Lord of Djedu". The
Greeks called it Busiris, after the shortened title Per-Asar - "The
House of Osiris"

Mythologically, the 'Raising of the Djed' symbolised the resurrection
of Osiris, and with its annual re-enactment represented the death and
renewal of the yearly cycle. Osiris is referred to as "Lord of the
Year" in the Pyramid Texts 7 and that he was also the god of
agriculture meant that his annual resurrection ensured the stability
of the abundance of the next season's crops.

http://www.pyramidofman.com/Djed/
Loading Image...
Loading Image...

It was probably at Memphis that kings first performed a ceremony known
as "raising the djed pillar", which not only served as a metaphor for
the stability of the monarch, but also symbolized the resurrection of
Osiris. Our best record of this ceremony comes from a depiction in
the Osiris Hall at Abydos. It was eventually incorporated into one of
the Sed Festivals of Amenhotep III at Thebes.

This ceremony, performed as early as the Middle Kingdom, took place at
the time when the flood was at its height. Overall known as the Feast
of Khoiak, it began with an effigy of the dead god, cast in gold and
filled with a mixture of sand and grain. As the waters were receding
from the inundation and grain was being planted in the land, the
effigy was watered daily. Then, for three days, it was floated on the
waters of the Nile, and on the twenty-fourth day of the ancient
Egyptian month of Khoiak, it was placed in a coffin and laid in a
grave. On the thirtieth day, the effigy was actually buried.

This seven day delay represented the god's seven-day gestation in the
womb of Nut, his mother. On the last day, the king and priests raised
a djed pillar as a symbol of Osiris' rejuvenation and strength,
apparently at a placed in the Delta known as Djedu (Greek Busiris).
Now, the land would be fertile for yet another year. The next day
marked the four month long season of Pert (Going Forth) during which
the land appeared to rise up out of the flood waters allowing the
fields to be planted.

http://www.touregypt.net/featurestories/djedpillar.htm

It is comparable to the Sumerian counterpart of the temen (temple),
and equated with the potency and duration of the pharaoh's
rule... ...Over time, the djed pillar came to represent the more
abstract ideas of stability and permanency...

http://www.crystalinks.com/djed.html
Loading Image...

Prior to the construction of the Aswan Dam, the Nile river would flood
annually, replenishing Egypt's soil. This gave the country consistent
harvest throughout the year. Many knew this event as The Gift of the
Nile.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egypt
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flooding_of_the_Nile

The ancient Egyptians celebrated the passion (suffering before fatal
dismemberment) of the god Osiris, and celebrated his resurrection in
the Spring, coinciding with the flooding of the Nile (and rebirth of
vegetation). The Greek god Dionysus was also a god of fertility whose
resurrection was celebrated in the Spring. In the ancient
Mediterranean Osiris-Dionysus mystery religions celebrated life, death
and rebirth through secret rites involving sacramental wine.

Osiris and his wife Isis were reputed to have been divine secular
rulers of Egypt until Osiris was murdered by his jealous brother Seth.
Seth cut the body of Osiris into 14 pieces and strew them about the
land. Isis gathered up the pieces — with the exception of the
genitals, which had been eaten by a fish — and restored Osiris to
life. Osiris then dwelled in the underworld as the king & judge of the
dead. Isis nonetheless gave birth to the divine child "Horus the
younger" (presumably a virgin birth).

http://www.benbest.com/history/xmas.html
http://www.egyptianmyths.net/mythisis.htm

Another tree, the willow (tcheret) was sacred to Osiris; it was the
willow which sheltered his body after he was killed. Many towns in
Egypt with tombs in which a part of the dismembered Osiris was
believed to be buried had groves of willows associated with them.

http://witcombe.sbc.edu/sacredplaces/trees.html
http://www.egyptianmyths.net/tree.htm

It was sacred to Osiris and gave shade to his coffin while his soul
rested on it in the guise of the phoenix. In some versions of the myth
it was the willow which grew around the coffin protecting it, in
others it was the persea.

Trees were possibly less important in the Egyptian religion than in
others. But some trees had divine connections, being home, birthplace
or resting place of some deities.

http://www.reshafim.org.il/ad/egypt/botany/willow.htm

http://www.deathreference.com/A-Bi/Anthropological-Perspective.html
========================================
GEORGE  HAMMOND'S PROOF OF GOD WEBSITE
                      Primary sitehttp://webspace.webring.com/people/eg/george_hammond
                      Mirror site
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     HAMMOND FOLK SONG by Casey Bennetto
     http://interrobang.jwgh.org/songs/hammond.mp3
=======================================
George Hammond
2010-07-25 05:30:51 UTC
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On Sat, 24 Jul 2010 20:31:39 -0700 (PDT), Immortalist
Post by Immortalist
        ____
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=========
        |      |
=========
        |      |
=========
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        |      |
       /        \
      /          \
      =====
THE DJED-PILLAR
   The Djed-pillar was a ubiquitous divine symbol in ancient
Egypt.  It ranks perhaps second only to the Ankh as a
religious symbol yet no one knows the origin of the
Djed-pillar.  Budge thought it was a mason's table which I
find incredible while some have suggested it was originally
a Nileometer.
   Doubtlessly the suggestive psychological form of the
object places it in the common "Venetian blind" category
which is well known to evoke a visual nuance of
transcendence.
   In addition, there was a well established Heb-Sed
ceremony known as the "Raising of the Djed-pillar" which is
shown in a startling realistic bas-relief in the temple of
Seti-I at Abydos.  The act of "raising" the pillar seems to
add force to the conjecture that the Venetian blind like
structure does indeed symbolize "transcendent perception",
and that the Pharaoh perhaps was held responsible for
"raising the bar" of the general perceptual level of the
population.  The Djed pillar in other words was the
pre-Christian symbol of what is referred to as the
"transfiguration" in modern religion... or perhaps more
accurately the "Holy Spirit" itself.
  The modern "Cross" has long since replaced the Ankh and
one wonders if perhaps the Nimbus (i.e. "halo") of modern
Christian art has perhaps replaced the Djed symbol?
   Does Anyone have any other theories as to what the
symbolic meaning of the Djed-pillar actually was or from
whence the physical form of the object originated?
George Hammond
[Hammond]
Hello Immortalist. you are a sight for sore eyes... I
presume you are posting from alt.philosophy.
Your interest and sincerity in posting to this thread
tells me that you have an intuitive grasp of what
significant and indeed sophisticated problems actually look
like. There are PhD physicists reading this who have IQs
above 140 and all the forensic scientific ability in the
world, and yet, when it comes to the subject of God they
have no more intuition or ability than the average stumble
bum on the street... a fact which I find profoundly uncanny.
Post by Immortalist
Looks like a hard problem after poking around the web, lots of dead
ends.
[Hammond]
You're right it is a hard problem. Fact is you need to
know what God is in order to answer the question. Of course
I'm the only one in possession of a bona fide scientific
explanation of God and this explains why no one in history
has ever been able to to explain the Djed Pillar up until
now.
The most savvy ( e.g.cogent) guess that I have run across
is that it was originally a Nileometer. A sort of Plimsoll
meter.
I say this is a cogent idea since water is the universal
symbol of psychological transcendence, and therefore
anything that measures water level is de facto a sort of
"psychometer"; to coin a new word.
Post by Immortalist
Soon after its first appearance 8,000 years ago cattle cults became
widespread, leading some scholars to propose cattle were domesticated
mainly for religious purposes.
[Hammond]
You've seen the evidence that the Djed existed 8000 years
ago? the earliest record I could find of it was some ivory
models of it found in a first dynasty grave, which would put
it about 5000 years ago.
Post by Immortalist
Calvin Schwabe: This was the largest animal, the bravest animal, the
swiftest, the most libidinous animal, and he was much admired by early
chiefs. for three thousand years the Pharaoh's principal epithet was
mighty bull.
[Hammond]
The bull has been the symbol of "strongman leadership"
since the dawn of history. The struggle of man to be free
has been one long struggle against the bull at the top. This
is why for instance bullfighting is the national sport of
Spain. the Egyptians even had a cult of the Apis sacred
bull dozens of them have been found mummified and resting in
a 5 ton granite coffins at Saqqara.
Post by Immortalist
Jonica Newby: Even the great pharoahs held the mighty bull in awe.
Which ultimately held the key to what, for most of this century, was
one of the greatest riddles in Egyptology.
The mystery concerned three of most important hieroglyphics in ancient
Egypt. Although their meanings were quite quickly deciphered, no one
the Ankh - symbol of life;
the Djed - symbol of stability;
And the Was - the staff held by the Pharaohs - symbol of power and
dominion.
The clues to the mystery were everywhere, but it would take a
veterinarian working in Africa to see what the Egyptologists could
not. The eureka moment came during a routine autopsy, as Professor
Calvin Schwabe sliced through the back of a bulls spine.
Calvin Schwabe: So I exposed against the red of the muscle, muscles of
the animal, the white thoracic vertebra and just entered my head,
that's the Ankh.
Jonica Newby: He realised he had the answer to the Pharaohs' ancient
riddle. The thoracic vertebra was the source of the Ankh. The base of
the spine, the sacrum, was the source of the Djed.
Image: Calvin ScwabeBut what about the Was? There aren't any bones
that look like that. Which part of the anatomy could it be? The
solution took a lesson in ancient Egyptian biology.
The Egyptians believed that semen was formed in the spinal fluid, if
you understand that, the rest makes sense. So the essence of life
starts here in the Ankh - it flows down through the vertebral canal,
past the strong base of the spine (the Djed), and out through the
penis, the Was - symbol of power.
Schwabe:Here's a dried bull's penis. Now this is a domestic bull. It's
about a meter long. This was carried as a staff by the gods and also
by the Pharoah. You can dry it so it's absolutely straight. Here is a
bull calf, just to get one that's a reasonable size, and this is dried
straight and is dried in this same position so you can make a Was very
easily.
Jonica Newby: The power of cattle went well beyond the merely
symbolic. But before it could be harnessed, there were two small
problem to overcome.
If you think this looks like a lot of bull, you should have seen its
ancestor, the mighty auroch. It was much taller, its horns were a
metre long - and it could use them. The real key to harnessing the
power of this ancient monster was back here. It's what you don't see
that matters. It took the invention of castration - removing the much-
admired libido - that was the key to making the beast tractable.
Once in traction, cattle drove the emerging economies of the ancient
world. Humanity had an energy source greater than our own muscles.
Simple digging stick agriculture was replaced by intensive
cultivation.
And with the wealth generated by large scale farming, for the first
time people could specialise. They could become writers, painters and
politicians. They could create civilisation.
Jared Diamond: With agriculture, we developed political organisation,
we developed the ability to feed specialists, including people who'd
invent metal tools and writing and printing presses. We develop the
needs for tax-collectors and we developed organized religion. All of
that came after the rise of farming.
http://www.abc.net.au/animals/program2/transcript2.htm
How did they build the pyramids? ...the use of the wind to lift and
move large stones...
[Hammond]
All of that explanation of the Djed pillar in terms of
the backbone of any animal is nothing but a second rate
academic trash. I strongly recommend that you immediately
distrust the discussion of any sophisticated subject by line
professional academics. Not only are they ignorant,
lackluster and vicious, but they are actually
counterproductive and will deliberately attempt to stifle
sophisticated discussion or investigation Out of simple
envy.
The Djed pillar is a sophisticated symbol of divinity
involving a powerful psychological symbol. That's symbol is
universal in history and process in society today. It is
the reason why people become fascinated with "Venetian
blinds" for instance, or why the "Plimsoll Mark" on a ship
rivets ones attention. Or why clapboard siding on houses is
so popular. a grid of horizontal lines immediately suggests
a horizontal scale in which the top line denotes the highest
level in the lower lines denote the lower classes.
In psychological terms, the higher classes are known to
have greater perception of the lower classes, and it is
known that within any class the level of one's perception is
a measure of how close someone is to God. Hence, we have
the true psychological origin of the Djed pillar.
The truth about the Djed pillar, is that it is a naked
symbol of the central power of God.
Perhaps the only symbol in the Christian era that
approaches it, is the "Halo" painted as a gold circle above
the heads of divine personages by classical painters. The
Djed pillar is a more literal representation of what is
being referenced by the rendering of a Halo over someone's
head.
Post by Immortalist
According to Wallis Budge, ................
.............................
the yearly ceremony of 'Raising the Djed Pillar' took place
...............
[Hammond]
The fact that there was a ceremony in which the Pharaoh
himself physically raised and erected the Djed pillar is a
clue to its psychological meaning. The head of state has
always been considered the "defender of the faith" and the
first duty of the head of state as such is to nurture and
tend to the spiritual health of the nation. Since the Djed
pillar is literally the "symbol of God" or of gods active
power, it was thought appropriate for the Pharaoh to get out
in public and are racked the Djed pillar once every year.
Post by Immortalist
Mythologically, the 'Raising of the Djed' symbolised the resurrection
of Osiris,
[Hammond]
You have to remember that the rise of the Osiris cult
only dates from the New Kingdom and the move of the central
government up river from Heliopolis to Thebes.. Osiris was
virtually unknown in the Old Kingdom, and yet we have carved
ivory Djed pillars dating from the first dynasty. Therefore
we know that the Djed pillar predates Osiris by more than
1000 years.
It appears that the Osiris cult merely "adopted" the
already universal symbol of the Djed pillar and appropriated
it to the legend of Osiris. since the Djed pillar was the
symbol of God, Osiris simply became the personification of
God, much as perhaps Jesus of Nazareth became the
personification of God in the New Testament.
[Hammond]
At any rate, as you know I am currently investigating the
theory of life after death. and as you also may know, it
was the EGYPTIANS who were the absolute first in history to
advance the theory of life after death. It was the
EGYPTIANS who either discovered or invented the theory in
the first place.
So, in my investigations of one where and how the
Egyptians first happened on the idea of life after death, I
have come across the mystery of the Djed pillar. From the
existence of this symbol I am clearly told by the facts of
history that the Egyptians clearly understood the
psychological action of God on the human mind... and this is
exactly and precisely what the Djed Pilar represents. in
short, they knew for a fact that there was such a thing as
perceptual transcendence and development, that people could
see it and discover it, and this was symbolized by the Djed
pillar.
Incidentally, they also knew about the "quadrature" of
human personality structure which is today portrayed by the
cross of Christianity, but in their date was portrayed by
the Ankh ( the Egyptian cross)
As for the "Was", I am not at all convinced of the
academic argument that this was a secptre. In my opinion it
was in fact a PRUNING HOOK, and belongs in the same category
as the crook and the flail which the pharaoh always carried
across his chest. The pruning hook was a symbol of the
discretionary power of the pharaoh to "weed the garden" of
humanity whatever he thought it necessary. How the hell
those academics ever came to the conclusion that it was a
scepter is beyond me. Many original tomb paintings show
that the thing was over 5 feet long for Christ sakes. Before
town was obviously used to pick fruit from the trees in the
Delta, while the two blades on the end were obviously used
for pruning branches.
========================================
GEORGE HAMMOND'S PROOF OF GOD WEBSITE
Primary site
http://webspace.webring.com/people/eg/george_hammond
Mirror site
http://proof-of-god.freewebsitehosting.com
HAMMOND FOLK SONG by Casey Bennetto
http://interrobang.jwgh.org/songs/hammond.mp3
=======================================
George Hammond
2010-07-25 06:02:32 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Sun, 25 Jul 2010 01:30:51 -0400, George Hammond
Post by George Hammond
On Sat, 24 Jul 2010 20:31:39 -0700 (PDT), Immortalist
Post by Immortalist
        ____
        |      |
=========
        |      |
=========
        |      |
=========
        |      |
        |      |
        |      |
        |      |
       /        \
      /          \
      =====
THE DJED-PILLAR
According to Wallis Budge, ................
.............................
the yearly ceremony of 'Raising the Djed Pillar' took place
...............
[Hammond]
PS: A photo of a famous bas-relief of the Pharaoh
physically erecting the Djed-pillar carved in the Temple of
Seti I at Abdyos can be seen by scrolling down a few inches
on this web-page:
http://www.reshafim.org.il/ad/egypt/symbols/djed-pillar.htm
========================================
GEORGE HAMMOND'S PROOF OF GOD WEBSITE
Primary site
http://webspace.webring.com/people/eg/george_hammond
Mirror site
http://proof-of-god.freewebsitehosting.com
HAMMOND FOLK SONG by Casey Bennetto
http://interrobang.jwgh.org/songs/hammond.mp3
=======================================
JTEM
2010-07-26 03:33:10 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Immortalist
...The djed pillar is the symbol of stability,
often standing on Maat, the god of truth (a
solid foundation). The pillar has three places
near its top where ropes may be wound around
the pillar.
The ropes
Post by Immortalist
might be used to hold a kite from flying away. In some illustrations
the middle groove has both of the eyes of Horus or is simply colored
red. It could be that the rope from the middle section went up to the
kite Horus. The other two rope sections are colored black and might
have been anchored to the ground. The pillar was the tool that allowed
the kite and its load to move laterally to the wind direction.
http://www.everleaf.com/pyramids/egypt.htm
According to Wallis Budge, the Djed is the oldest symbol of Osiris,
and symbolizes his backbone and his body in general.  He states that
originally Osiris was probably represented by the Djed alone, and that
he had no other form.  He regards the Djed hieroglyph as a
conventional representation of a part of his spinal column and gives
its meaning as "to be stable, to be permanent, abiding, established
firmly, enduring.
The reconstruction of the body of Osiris occurred at a place called
Djedu,in the Delta region of Lower Egypt and it was here that the
yearly ceremony of 'Raising the Djed Pillar' took place on the last
day of the month of Khoiak, the eve of the agricultural New Year. The
next day marked the beginning of the four month long season of Pert,
or 'Going Forth' during which the lands rose out of the flood waters
allowing the fields to be sown.Djedu was also referred to as Per-Asar-
Neb-Djedu, meaning "The House of Osiris - the Lord of Djedu".  The
Greeks called it Busiris, after the shortened title Per-Asar - "The
House of Osiris"
Mythologically, the 'Raising of the Djed' symbolised the resurrection
of Osiris, and with its annual re-enactment represented the death and
renewal of the yearly cycle.  Osiris is referred to as "Lord of the
Year" in the Pyramid Texts 7 and that he was also the god of
agriculture meant that his annual resurrection ensured the stability
of the abundance of the next season's crops.
Loading Image...
It was probably at Memphis that kings first performed a ceremony known
as "raising the djed pillar", which not only served as a metaphor for
the stability of the monarch, but also symbolized the resurrection of
Osiris. Our best record of this ceremony comes from a depiction in
the  Osiris Hall at Abydos. It was eventually incorporated into one of
the  Sed Festivals of  Amenhotep III at Thebes.
This ceremony, performed as early as the Middle Kingdom, took place at
the time when the flood was at its height. Overall known as the Feast
of Khoiak, it began with an effigy of the dead god, cast in gold and
filled with a mixture of sand and grain. As the waters were receding
from the inundation and grain was being planted in the land, the
effigy was watered daily. Then,  for three days, it was floated on the
waters of the Nile, and on the twenty-fourth day of the ancient
Egyptian month of Khoiak, it was placed in a coffin and laid in a
grave. On the thirtieth day, the effigy was actually buried.
This seven day delay represented the god's seven-day gestation in the
womb of Nut, his mother. On the last day, the king and priests raised
a djed pillar as a symbol of Osiris' rejuvenation and strength,
apparently at a placed in the Delta known as Djedu (Greek Busiris).
Now, the land would be fertile for yet another year. The next day
marked the four month long season of Pert (Going Forth) during which
the land appeared to rise up out of the flood waters allowing the
fields to be planted.
http://www.touregypt.net/featurestories/djedpillar.htm
It is comparable to the Sumerian counterpart of the temen (temple),
and equated with the potency and duration of the pharaoh's
rule... ...Over time, the djed pillar came to represent the more
abstract ideas of stability and permanency...
Loading Image...
Prior to the construction of the Aswan Dam, the Nile river would flood
annually, replenishing Egypt's soil. This gave...
read more »
JTEM
2010-07-26 03:44:46 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Immortalist
...The djed pillar is the symbol of stability,
often standing on Maat,the god of truth (a
solid foundation). The pillar has three places
near its top where ropes may be wound around
the pillar. The ropes might be used to hold
Now it's funny that you should say that, because
ancient Egyptian art wasn't anything like art as
we think of today. Not only was proportion often
quite off, by it wasn't unusual at all for a
sign to depict the same object/place from more
than one point of view simultaneously.What this
means is that "What does it look like?" is often
a misleading question.

Now, having said that allow me to completely
contradict myself and say that the Djed looks
to me like a sailing ship's mast.

The pillar, well, that's easy enough to imagine as
a ship's mast. After all, what is a mast but a
pillar made from wood? Those horizontal lines though,
they're something of a head scratcher. But, keep
in mind that the Egyptians weren't exactly "Big"
on making sure they depicted everything from the
same angle.

Now, take a look at the following. It's Minoan,
yes, but the exact same mast/ring system has
been attributed to the ancient Egyptians. So even
if it's not Egyptian you can still see exactly
what I'm talking about:

Loading Image...

It's the ship with the big, white sail, if you
have to ask.

Anyhow, turn those rings sideways and you've
got a pretty good representation of the Djed.

YMMV.
Bernhard Schornak
2010-07-29 19:08:17 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by George Hammond
____
| |
=========
| |
=========
| |
=========
| |
| |
| |
| |
/ \
/ \
=====
THE DJED-PILLAR
The Djed-pillar was a ubiquitous divine symbol in ancient
Egypt. It ranks perhaps second only to the Ankh as a
religious symbol yet no one knows the origin of the
Djed-pillar. Budge thought it was a mason's table which I
find incredible while some have suggested it was originally
a Nileometer.
Doubtlessly the suggestive psychological form of the
object places it in the common "Venetian blind" category
which is well known to evoke a visual nuance of
transcendence.
In addition, there was a well established Heb-Sed
ceremony known as the "Raising of the Djed-pillar" which is
shown in a startling realistic bas-relief in the temple of
Seti-I at Abydos. The act of "raising" the pillar seems to
add force to the conjecture that the Venetian blind like
structure does indeed symbolize "transcendent perception",
and that the Pharaoh perhaps was held responsible for
"raising the bar" of the general perceptual level of the
population. The Djed pillar in other words was the
pre-Christian symbol of what is referred to as the
"transfiguration" in modern religion... or perhaps more
accurately the "Holy Spirit" itself.
The modern "Cross" has long since replaced the Ankh and
one wonders if perhaps the Nimbus (i.e. "halo") of modern
Christian art has perhaps replaced the Djed symbol?
Does Anyone have any other theories as to what the
symbolic meaning of the Djed-pillar actually was or from
whence the physical form of the object originated?
Hi George!

Alan Gardiner described djed as a column imitating a
bundle of stalks tied together, and that is probably
its true meaning. The comparison with a human spinal
column came up in the new kingdom (18th through 20th
dynasty). In earlier periods, it just stands for du-
rability and endurance. Djed pillars already existed
before dynasty zero:

http://xoomer.virgilio.it/francescoraf/hesyra/helwan.htm

That much about the egyptian point of view. The Djed
pillar is seen as a phallic symbol, and "raising the
pillar" might have been a picturesque circumlocution
for "getting an errection"... ;)

The cross was just an instrument to kill people with
maximum pain. Delinquents generally survived several
days before they died - early christians had no need
to look for symbols anywhere, they just had to watch
what the Romans practised on a daily base.

Moreover, there is a huge difference between an Ankh
and a cross. The Ankh has that horizontal bar in its
middle (or even below), while crosses have it in the
upper third or even at top (Phoenicians, 1,000 BCE).
Djed pillars have four capitals, so it is quite hard
to mismatch them with a "T" or "t" shaped cross.
Bernhard Schornak
2010-07-29 20:37:21 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by George Hammond
____
| |
=========
| |
=========
| |
=========
| |
| |
| |
| |
/ \
/ \
=====
THE DJED-PILLAR
The Djed-pillar was a ubiquitous divine symbol in ancient
Egypt. It ranks perhaps second only to the Ankh as a
religious symbol yet no one knows the origin of the
Djed-pillar. Budge thought it was a mason's table which I
find incredible while some have suggested it was originally
a Nileometer.
Doubtlessly the suggestive psychological form of the
object places it in the common "Venetian blind" category
which is well known to evoke a visual nuance of
transcendence.
In addition, there was a well established Heb-Sed
ceremony known as the "Raising of the Djed-pillar" which is
shown in a startling realistic bas-relief in the temple of
Seti-I at Abydos. The act of "raising" the pillar seems to
add force to the conjecture that the Venetian blind like
structure does indeed symbolize "transcendent perception",
and that the Pharaoh perhaps was held responsible for
"raising the bar" of the general perceptual level of the
population. The Djed pillar in other words was the
pre-Christian symbol of what is referred to as the
"transfiguration" in modern religion... or perhaps more
accurately the "Holy Spirit" itself.
The modern "Cross" has long since replaced the Ankh and
one wonders if perhaps the Nimbus (i.e. "halo") of modern
Christian art has perhaps replaced the Djed symbol?
Does Anyone have any other theories as to what the
symbolic meaning of the Djed-pillar actually was or from
whence the physical form of the object originated?
Hi George!

Alan Gardiner described Djed as a column imitating a
bundle of stalks tied together, and that is probably
its true meaning. The comparison with a human spinal
column came up in the new kingdom (18th through 20th
dynasty). In earlier periods, it just stands for du-
rability and endurance. Djed pillars already existed
before dynasty zero:

http://xoomer.virgilio.it/francescoraf/hesyra/helwan.htm

That much about the egyptian point of view. The Djed
pillar is seen as a phallic symbol, and "raising the
pillar" might have been a picturesque circumlocution
for "getting an errection". A look at those pictures
definitely proves this theory. (Question is whom you
want to penetrate with such an oversized thing...)

The cross was just an instrument to kill people with
maximum pain. Delinquents generally survived several
days before they died. There was no need to look for
symbols anywhere, they just had to watch what Romans
practised on a daily base.

Moreover, there is a huge difference between an Ankh
and a cross. The Ankh has that horizontal bar in its
middle (or even below), while crosses have it in the
upper third or even at top (Phoenicians, 1,000 BCE).
Djed pillars have four capitals, so it is quite hard
to mismatch them with a "T" or "t" shaped cross.

Physical forms of tools (and a cross is a tool) most
times are derived from their purpose. Development of
killing and torturing tools is one of the few things
humans do with perfection - you can be sure that the
physical form of a cross cannot be improved further.


Greetings from Augsburg

Bernhard Schornak
George Hammond
2010-07-30 08:50:47 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Thu, 29 Jul 2010 22:37:21 +0200, Bernhard Schornak
Post by George Hammond
____
| |
=========
| |
=========
| |
=========
| |
| |
| |
| |
/ \
/ \
=====
THE DJED-PILLAR
The Djed-pillar was a ubiquitous divine symbol in ancient
Egypt. It ranks perhaps second only to the Ankh as a
religious symbol yet no one knows the origin of the
Djed-pillar. Budge thought it was a mason's table which I
find incredible while some have suggested it was originally
a Nileometer.
Doubtlessly the suggestive psychological form of the
object places it in the common "Venetian blind" category
which is well known to evoke a visual nuance of
transcendence.
In addition, there was a well established Heb-Sed
ceremony known as the "Raising of the Djed-pillar" which is
shown in a startling realistic bas-relief in the temple of
Seti-I at Abydos. The act of "raising" the pillar seems to
add force to the conjecture that the Venetian blind like
structure does indeed symbolize "transcendent perception",
and that the Pharaoh perhaps was held responsible for
"raising the bar" of the general perceptual level of the
population. The Djed pillar in other words was the
pre-Christian symbol of what is referred to as the
"transfiguration" in modern religion... or perhaps more
accurately the "Holy Spirit" itself.
The modern "Cross" has long since replaced the Ankh and
one wonders if perhaps the Nimbus (i.e. "halo") of modern
Christian art has perhaps replaced the Djed symbol?
Does Anyone have any other theories as to what the
symbolic meaning of the Djed-pillar actually was or from
whence the physical form of the object originated?
[Hammond]
Hi Bernie.
Greetings from Hyannis.
[Shornak]
Hi George!
Alan Gardiner described Djed as a column imitating a
bundle of stalks tied together, and that is probably
its true meaning.
[Hammond]
Since Gardiner is the progenitor of that clumbsy academic
fable we can be sure it is incorrect, even foolish.
Gardiner was a linguist and scholar of classical
literature. Egyptology for him was purely a hobby.
To know what the Djed is one must be first a physicist,
second, a psychologist, and third a theologian. Gardiner is
neither.
<snip>
[Schornak]
The Djed
pillar is seen as a phallic symbol, and "raising the
pillar" might have been a picturesque circumlocution
for "getting an errection"
[Hammond]
More academic style staircase wit. The Egyptians weren't
stupid, unsophisticated nor vulgar.
Raising the Djed was what is captured in todays euphemism
"raising the bar", in this case for admission into the
trancendental levels of reality. The Djed symbolized the
"Holy Spirit" in Egyptian divinity.
[Schornak]
The cross was just an instrument to kill people with
maximum pain.
[Hammond]
Na... its design is supposed to inflict "psychological
pain" not merely physical pain.
<snip>
[Schornak]
Moreover, there is a huge difference between an Ankh
and a cross.
[Hammond]
Na... there is more similarity than difference. It had
the same message, it was the heiroglyphic symbol for "life"
which is what the modern Cross of Christianity stands for
whether it is on the roof of a Mexican adobe church or on an
ancient Celtic headstone.
<snip>
[Schornak]
Djed pillars have four capitals, so it is quite hard
to mismatch them with a "T" or "t" shaped cross.
[Hammond]
Look, you are failing to distinguish between the Cross
and the Trinity. The Cross is the STRUCTURAL symbol of
Psychology based on the orthogonal cleavage of the brain
while the Trinity represents the DYNAMIC structure of
psychology because it is the trinary feedback loop commonly
known as the "father son and holy spirit" which controls the
mind. The CROSS and the TRINITY in the Egyptian religion
were known as the ANKH and the DJED.
<snip>
Greetings from Augsburg
Bernhard Schornak
========================================
GEORGE HAMMOND'S PROOF OF GOD WEBSITE
Primary site
http://webspace.webring.com/people/eg/george_hammond
Mirror site
http://proof-of-god.freewebsitehosting.com
HAMMOND FOLK SONG by Casey Bennetto
http://interrobang.jwgh.org/songs/hammond.mp3
=======================================
Bernhard Schornak
2010-07-30 17:35:45 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by George Hammond
Post by George Hammond
____
| |
=========
| |
=========
| |
=========
| |
| |
| |
| |
/ \
/ \
=====
THE DJED-PILLAR
The Djed-pillar was a ubiquitous divine symbol in ancient
Egypt. It ranks perhaps second only to the Ankh as a
religious symbol yet no one knows the origin of the
Djed-pillar. Budge thought it was a mason's table which I
find incredible while some have suggested it was originally
a Nileometer.
Doubtlessly the suggestive psychological form of the
object places it in the common "Venetian blind" category
which is well known to evoke a visual nuance of
transcendence.
In addition, there was a well established Heb-Sed
ceremony known as the "Raising of the Djed-pillar" which is
shown in a startling realistic bas-relief in the temple of
Seti-I at Abydos. The act of "raising" the pillar seems to
add force to the conjecture that the Venetian blind like
structure does indeed symbolize "transcendent perception",
and that the Pharaoh perhaps was held responsible for
"raising the bar" of the general perceptual level of the
population. The Djed pillar in other words was the
pre-Christian symbol of what is referred to as the
"transfiguration" in modern religion... or perhaps more
accurately the "Holy Spirit" itself.
The modern "Cross" has long since replaced the Ankh and
one wonders if perhaps the Nimbus (i.e. "halo") of modern
Christian art has perhaps replaced the Djed symbol?
Does Anyone have any other theories as to what the
symbolic meaning of the Djed-pillar actually was or from
whence the physical form of the object originated?
[Hammond]
Hi Bernie.
Greetings from Hyannis.
Hi George,

are you okay? You disappeared from one day to
the next, so I was worrying what happened. It
is nice to see you, again!
Post by George Hammond
[Shornak]
Hi George!
Alan Gardiner described Djed as a column imitating a
bundle of stalks tied together, and that is probably
its true meaning.
[Hammond]
Since Gardiner is the progenitor of that clumbsy academic
fable we can be sure it is incorrect, even foolish.
Gardiner was a linguist and scholar of classical
literature. Egyptology for him was purely a hobby.
To know what the Djed is one must be first a physicist,
second, a psychologist, and third a theologian. Gardiner is
neither.
A sligtly modified version of Gardiner's des-
cription was used by James P. Allan.

http://research.brown.edu/research/profile.php?id=1170774357&r=1
Post by George Hammond
[Schornak]
The Djed
pillar is seen as a phallic symbol, and "raising the
pillar" might have been a picturesque circumlocution
for "getting an errection"
[Hammond]
More academic style staircase wit. The Egyptians weren't
stupid, unsophisticated nor vulgar.
Mea culpa... Those pictures just suggest this
as one possible meaning. Egyptians weren't as
prude as today's people!
Post by George Hammond
Raising the Djed was what is captured in todays euphemism
"raising the bar", in this case for admission into the
trancendental levels of reality. The Djed symbolized the
"Holy Spirit" in Egyptian divinity.
Whose bar should be raised? The kings were an
incarnation of their gods, no one had a right
to question them or measure them against any-
thing.

BTW: There also were Djed pillars with five

Loading Image...

or three capitals - just in case you tried to
assign a new meaning to the four... ;)
Post by George Hammond
[Schornak]
The cross was just an instrument to kill people with
maximum pain.
[Hammond]
Na... its design is supposed to inflict "psychological
pain" not merely physical pain.
Your assumption. Crucifixion came up with the
phoenicians about 1,000 BCE, and made its way
through the next 1,400 years. Main purpose is
to extend the time to die, there's no need to
do "psychological pain". The physical process
itself surely is nothing you ever want to ex-
perience on your own.
Post by George Hammond
[Schornak]
Moreover, there is a huge difference between an Ankh
and a cross.
[Hammond]
Na... there is more similarity than difference. It had
the same message, it was the heiroglyphic symbol for "life"
which is what the modern Cross of Christianity stands for
whether it is on the roof of a Mexican adobe church or on an
ancient Celtic headstone.
Probably you forget that the christian symbol
was the <fish> until they usurpated the Roman
empire. The cross became the symbol after 350
CE, not earlier. I doubt that many christians
knew the Ankh. If they did, it was the symbol
of a pagan religion - "Satan's work". Keep in
mind that the Egyptian culture was dead about
750 years before year zero - it was conquered
and influenced by many other parties like the
Libyans, Assyrians, Persians, Greeks, Romans,
Arabs...

As a result, the mixture of Egypt and foreign
mythologies known in the the Roman period had
not much to do with those traditional beliefs
worshipped until the fall of the New Kingdom.
Post by George Hammond
[Schornak]
Djed pillars have four capitals, so it is quite hard
to mismatch them with a "T" or "t" shaped cross.
[Hammond]
Look, you are failing to distinguish between the Cross
and the Trinity. The Cross is the STRUCTURAL symbol of
Psychology based on the orthogonal cleavage of the brain
while the Trinity represents the DYNAMIC structure of
psychology because it is the trinary feedback loop commonly
known as the "father son and holy spirit" which controls the
mind. The CROSS and the TRINITY in the Egyptian religion
were known as the ANKH and the DJED.
No trinity comparable to the christian belief
system existed in Egyptian mythology. Some of
Egypt's gods and godesses were merged in some
thousand years, assigning powers of the basic
entities to the new one, but one of both dis-
appeared in this process.

The Ankh (per se) was the symbol of life, the
oval part symbolised the never ending "circle
of life". In comparison, the cross always was
a symbol for painful death. Think of the many
people who were crucified throughout hundreds
and hundreds of years. Early christians never
worshipped the cross as holy symbol - many of
them were crucified themselves, no motivation
to pray to a tool which might be used to kill
you the very next day.

About the Djed - you are interpreting things,
giving this more than 5,000 year old symbol a
new meaning. At the times the symbol was used
first, religuous beliefs just had made a step
from natural deities to polytheism. There was
no monotheism at that time - monotheistic re-
ligions came up between 2,000 BCE (India) and
1,300 BCE (Echnaton, "Canaanites"), where the
Canaanite version is the base for the Jewish,
Christian and Islamic belief systems.

Does a "trinity" control our minds? Well, not
mine. At least, I hope that no entity ever is
going to violate Universal Laws, granting all
lifeforms the Right of Self-Determination.


Greetings from Augsburg

Bernhard Schornak
Geopelia
2010-07-30 22:30:39 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
How big would a kite have to be to raise one of the large pyramid stones?
purple
2010-07-31 00:42:56 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Geopelia
How big would a kite have to be to raise one of the large pyramid stones?
How much wind do you have? :-)
George Hammond
2010-07-31 02:58:24 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Sat, 31 Jul 2010 10:30:39 +1200, "Geopelia"
Post by Geopelia
How big would a kite have to be to raise one of the large pyramid stones?
[Hammond]
The formula for the lift of a flat plate is:

Lift = 1/2 rho V^2 A

and for an airplane wing it is
:
Lift=1/2 Cl rho V^2

where rho=air density (.0024 slugs/ft^3)
and V=air velocity in ft/ sec
A= area of the wing in sq. ft.
and Cl=the lift coefficient of the wing, generally a
number between 1 and 1.3 for a curved wing
but probably less than one for a kite, say .6

The average weight of the stone blocks in the pyramids is
2.5 tons apiece.
So assuming manageable wind of 60 mph max (66 ft/sec) and
a llift coefficient of .6 for a kite and 2.5 ton (5,000 lb)
blocks, we have:

5,000 lbs = 1/2 .6 .0024 (88)^2 A

and solving for A we get:

A = kite area = 1793 sq. feet = 42 x 42 foott square kite.

So basically.... a 40 foot kite and 60 mph wind would do it.
========================================
GEORGE HAMMOND'S PROOF OF GOD WEBSITE
Primary site
http://webspace.webring.com/people/eg/george_hammond
Mirror site
http://proof-of-god.freewebsitehosting.com
HAMMOND FOLK SONG by Casey Bennetto
http://interrobang.jwgh.org/songs/hammond.mp3
=======================================
John Stafford
2010-07-31 03:19:23 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by George Hammond
On Sat, 31 Jul 2010 10:30:39 +1200, "Geopelia"
Post by Geopelia
How big would a kite have to be to raise one of the large pyramid stones?
A = kite area = 1793 sq. feet = 42 x 42 foott square kite.
So basically.... a 40 foot kite and 60 mph wind would do it.
That would be one heck of a wind, eh? (Ever heard of Domina Jalbert?)
George Hammond
2010-07-31 05:34:55 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Fri, 30 Jul 2010 22:19:23 -0500, John Stafford
Post by John Stafford
Post by George Hammond
On Sat, 31 Jul 2010 10:30:39 +1200, "Geopelia"
Post by Geopelia
How big would a kite have to be to raise one of the large pyramid stones?
A = kite area = 1793 sq. feet = 42 x 42 foott square kite.
So basically.... a 40 foot kite and 60 mph wind would do it.
That would be one heck of a wind, eh? (Ever heard of Domina Jalbert?)
[Hammond]
No.... ever heard of Buckah Finyaddy ?
========================================
GEORGE HAMMOND'S PROOF OF GOD WEBSITE
Primary site
http://webspace.webring.com/people/eg/george_hammond
Mirror site
http://proof-of-god.freewebsitehosting.com
HAMMOND FOLK SONG by Casey Bennetto
http://interrobang.jwgh.org/songs/hammond.mp3
=======================================
John Stafford
2010-07-31 12:33:11 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by George Hammond
On Fri, 30 Jul 2010 22:19:23 -0500, John Stafford
Post by John Stafford
That would be one heck of a wind, eh? (Ever heard of Domina Jalbert?)
[Hammond]
No.... ever heard of Buckah Finyaddy ?
No. Who is/was Buckah Finyaddy?

Jalbert designed and built flew the largest kites in history, and was
the inventor of the parasail/parafoil. His motivation was to use kites
as lifting devices, and of course they also made good sails, parachutes.
George Hammond
2010-07-31 17:16:42 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Sat, 31 Jul 2010 07:33:11 -0500, John Stafford
Post by John Stafford
Post by George Hammond
On Fri, 30 Jul 2010 22:19:23 -0500, John Stafford
Post by John Stafford
That would be one heck of a wind, eh? (Ever heard of Domina Jalbert?)
[Hammond]
No.... ever heard of Buckah Finyaddy ?
No. Who is/was Buckah Finyaddy?
Jalbert designed and built flew the largest kites in history, and was
the inventor of the parasail/parafoil. His motivation was to use kites
as lifting devices, and of course they also made good sails, parachutes.
[Hammond]
The desert winds at Saqqara do reach incredible strength
giving rise to the legendary "sandstorms" with which we are
all familiar from countless Hollywood movies. However, the
spectre of 1,000 Egyptians holding on to a 2 inch hawser
trying to control a kite bearing a 21/2 stone block simply
defies credibility. Interestingly this widely published
thesis posits that the subject Dejed-pillar was actually a
"capstan" used to reel the kite in and position it over the
pyramid. As a physicist I find the whole scenario quite
absurd since the attendant sandstorm would make the location
of the kite near invisible, and the legendary swoo-ping and
diving of kites would have made the thing unimaginably
dangerous.
As dfor Buckah Finyaddy.... no one knows who he actually
was... he was a local mythological character here in my home
town on Cape Cod when I was a kid and to him was regularly
attributed any unusual occurances in the community.
========================================
GEORGE HAMMOND'S PROOF OF GOD WEBSITE
Primary site
http://webspace.webring.com/people/eg/george_hammond
Mirror site
http://proof-of-god.freewebsitehosting.com
HAMMOND FOLK SONG by Casey Bennetto
http://interrobang.jwgh.org/songs/hammond.mp3
=======================================
John Stafford
2010-08-01 11:50:15 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by George Hammond
On Sat, 31 Jul 2010 07:33:11 -0500, John Stafford
Post by John Stafford
Post by George Hammond
On Fri, 30 Jul 2010 22:19:23 -0500, John Stafford
Post by John Stafford
That would be one heck of a wind, eh? (Ever heard of Domina Jalbert?)
[Hammond]
No.... ever heard of Buckah Finyaddy ?
No. Who is/was Buckah Finyaddy?
Jalbert designed and built flew the largest kites in history, and was
the inventor of the parasail/parafoil. His motivation was to use kites
as lifting devices, and of course they also made good sails, parachutes.
[Hammond]
The desert winds at Saqqara do reach incredible strength
giving rise to the legendary "sandstorms" with which we are
all familiar from countless Hollywood movies. However, the
spectre of 1,000 Egyptians holding on to a 2 inch hawser
trying to control a kite bearing a 21/2 stone block simply
defies credibility.
For the record, Jalbert had never suggested the role of a kite in the
building of the pyramids.
Post by George Hammond
As dfor Buckah Finyaddy.... no one knows who he actually
was... he was a local mythological character here in my home
town on Cape Cod when I was a kid and to him was regularly
attributed any unusual occurances in the community.
I also heard him called Yahoodi. Unfortunate name.
Geopelia
2010-07-31 14:58:08 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by John Stafford
Post by George Hammond
On Sat, 31 Jul 2010 10:30:39 +1200, "Geopelia"
Post by Geopelia
How big would a kite have to be to raise one of the large pyramid stones?
A = kite area = 1793 sq. feet = 42 x 42 foott square kite.
So basically.... a 40 foot kite and 60 mph wind would do it.
That would be one heck of a wind, eh? (Ever heard of Domina Jalbert?)
I googled him. Interesting.

We wouldn't get winds like that here in Auckland very often, but they would
be quite frequent in Wellington.

Auckland has a Skytower. In 4,000 years I wonder what archaeologists will
make of it. As it's part of the Casino I expect they will think it is a
symbol for Mammon worshippers.
But by then Auckland's volcanoes will probably have erupted, and it will be
like digging up Pompeii.
Bernhard Schornak
2010-07-31 07:47:54 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Geopelia
How big would a kite have to be to raise one of the large pyramid stones?
Very big?

http://www.cheops-pyramide.ch/pyramid-building.html


Greetings from Augsburg

Bernhard Schornak
George Hammond
2010-07-31 00:17:07 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Fri, 30 Jul 2010 19:35:45 +0200, Bernhard Schornak
Post by Bernhard Schornak
Post by George Hammond
Post by George Hammond
____
| |
=========
| |
=========
| |
=========
| |
| |
| |
| |
/ \
/ \
=====
THE DJED-PILLAR
The Djed-pillar was a ubiquitous divine symbol in ancient
Egypt. It ranks perhaps second only to the Ankh as a
religious symbol yet no one knows the origin of the
Djed-pillar. Budge thought it was a mason's table which I
find incredible while some have suggested it was originally
a Nileometer.
Doubtlessly the suggestive psychological form of the
object places it in the common "Venetian blind" category
which is well known to evoke a visual nuance of
transcendence.
In addition, there was a well established Heb-Sed
ceremony known as the "Raising of the Djed-pillar" which is
shown in a startling realistic bas-relief in the temple of
Seti-I at Abydos. The act of "raising" the pillar seems to
add force to the conjecture that the Venetian blind like
structure does indeed symbolize "transcendent perception",
and that the Pharaoh perhaps was held responsible for
"raising the bar" of the general perceptual level of the
population. The Djed pillar in other words was the
pre-Christian symbol of what is referred to as the
"transfiguration" in modern religion... or perhaps more
accurately the "Holy Spirit" itself.
The modern "Cross" has long since replaced the Ankh and
one wonders if perhaps the Nimbus (i.e. "halo") of modern
Christian art has perhaps replaced the Djed symbol?
Does Anyone have any other theories as to what the
symbolic meaning of the Djed-pillar actually was or from
whence the physical form of the object originated?
[Hammond]
Hi Bernie.
Greetings from Hyannis.
Hi George,
are you okay?
[Hammond]
Is the Pope a Catholic?
Post by Bernhard Schornak
You disappeared from one day to
the next, so I was worrying what happened. It
is nice to see you, again!
[Hammond]
No problem. I don't answer peronal questions, especially on
the Internet..
Post by Bernhard Schornak
Post by George Hammond
[Shornak]
Hi George!
Alan Gardiner described Djed as a column imitating a
bundle of stalks tied together, and that is probably
its true meaning.
[Hammond]
Since Gardiner is the progenitor of that clumbsy academic
fable we can be sure it is incorrect, even foolish.
Gardiner was a linguist and scholar of classical
literature. Egyptology for him was purely a hobby.
To know what the Djed is one must be first a physicist,
second, a psychologist, and third a theologian. Gardiner is
neither.
A sligtly modified version of Gardiner's des-
cription was used by James P. Allan.
http://research.brown.edu/research/profile.php?id=1170774357&r=1
[Hammond]
Allen, like Gardiner is not a scientist (e.g. physicist)
nor is he a psychologist or a theologian. You can't expect
a line professional linguist or literature expert or an
"Egyoptologist" to tell you anything new or scientific about
the Egyotian religion.
Most "Egyptologists" of the past century have been museum
curators for chrissakes... including Budge. Fact is, a
PHYSICIST (Thomas Young of two slit fame) made the first
breakthrouh in decipering Heiroglyphics. Champollian built
on Young's work.
Post by Bernhard Schornak
Post by George Hammond
[Schornak]
The Djed
pillar is seen as a phallic symbol, and "raising the
pillar" might have been a picturesque circumlocution
for "getting an errection"
[Hammond]
More academic style staircase wit. The Egyptians weren't
stupid, unsophisticated nor vulgar.
Mea culpa... Those pictures just suggest this
as one possible meaning. Egyptians weren't as
prude as today's people!
[Hammond]
Look... anyone with half a brain in his head and any
practical knowlege can see that the Djed was a NILEOMETER.
The water level of the Nile was the first fact of life in
ancient Egypt ... taxes were even computed on the height of
the Nile due to crop returns.
EVERY field must have had a Djed-Nileometer planted in the
middle of it so the water level could be seen at a glance.
In fact here is a picture of a modern Djed pillar from an
Australian flood plain:

Loading Image...

The highest level shown is 27 meters.
If this isn't a modern day Djed-pillar I'll eat my hat!
Post by Bernhard Schornak
Post by George Hammond
Raising the Djed was what is captured in todays euphemism
"raising the bar", in this case for admission into the
trancendental levels of reality. The Djed symbolized the
"Holy Spirit" in Egyptian divinity.
Whose bar should be raised?
[Hammond]
Are you kidding... the Pharoah as defender of the faith
and spiritual leader of the country was responsible for
"setting the bar" of spritual enlightenment... which is what
his raising of the Djed pillar represented.
Post by Bernhard Schornak
The kings were an
incarnation of their gods, no one had a right
to question them or measure them against any-
thing.
[Hammond]
You got it backwards... everybody else was measured
relative to the king...not only every lenght was meqasured
relative to the kings foot... everbodies MENTAL
ENLIGHTENMENT was measured relative to his which is WHY he
was responsible for "raising the pillar".
Post by Bernhard Schornak
BTW: There also were Djed pillars with five
http://www.aegyptologie.com/forum/attachments/DjedCnv0439.jpg
[Hammond]
Yes, obviously... and thanks for that picture. The
actual nileometers probably were telephone pole sized with
10 or more crossbars, since the Nile rose as much as 25 feet
some years. the Djed Symbol is only a stylized iconic
representation of the real thing... it caputres the
"visuo-psychological impact" of the thing.
Post by Bernhard Schornak
or three capitals - just in case you tried to
assign a new meaning to the four... ;)
Post by George Hammond
[Schornak]
The cross was just an instrument to kill people with
maximum pain.
[Hammond]
Na... its design is supposed to inflict "psychological
pain" not merely physical pain.
Your assumption.
[Hammond]
Na.... now that the Structural Mosdel of Personality has
been PROVEN to be crusiform, it is no longer an
"assumption"... sorry, you lose.
Post by Bernhard Schornak
Crucifixion came up with the
phoenicians about 1,000 BCE, and made its way
through the next 1,400 years. Main purpose is
to extend the time to die, there's no need to
do "psychological pain". The physical process
itself surely is nothing you ever want to ex-
perience on your own.
[Hammond]
hey... cut the war stories.... I'm 68 years old and come
from a military family. We're here to discuss the
scientific proof of God not the history of terrorism.
Post by Bernhard Schornak
Post by George Hammond
[Schornak]
Moreover, there is a huge difference between an Ankh
and a cross.
[Hammond]
Na... there is more similarity than difference. It had
the same message, it was the heiroglyphic symbol for "life"
which is what the modern Cross of Christianity stands for
whether it is on the roof of a Mexican adobe church or on an
ancient Celtic headstone.
Probably you forget that the christian symbol
was the <fish>
[Hammond]
Fish, snakes and birds are ephemeral symbols of
psychological syndromes. The snake and the bird being
perhaps foremost. This is why the Phaorh wore a Snake and a
Bird on his forehead 16 hours a day.... half the population
was as scared as sparrows of bullys and the other half had
some form of god awful contageous disease and felt like
untouchables... therefore the Pharoah wore a snake and a
bird on his forehead to let you KNOW that he KNEW what you
were afraid of and that HE understood it and therefore that
it was safe to talk to him.
Post by Bernhard Schornak
until they usurpated the Roman
empire. The cross became the symbol after 350
CE, not earlier. I doubt that many christians
knew the Ankh. If they did, it was the symbol
of a pagan religion - "Satan's work". Keep in
mind that the Egyptian culture was dead about
750 years before year zero - it was conquered
and influenced by many other parties like the
Libyans, Assyrians, Persians, Greeks, Romans,
Arabs...
As a result, the mixture of Egypt and foreign
mythologies known in the the Roman period had
not much to do with those traditional beliefs
worshipped until the fall of the New Kingdom.
[Hammond]
Na... you are still under the sway of traditional
academic teaching which holds that all religion is
"arbitrary convention" and not founded on immutable
axiomatic physicial laws. This ignorant belief is of course
false, and academics are as outdated as buggy whips. Richard
Dawkins is a typical example... he doesn't even believe
there is a God... and here I am having actually published
the scientific proof there is in the peer reviewed
literature.... what a joke!
Post by Bernhard Schornak
Post by George Hammond
[Schornak]
Djed pillars have four capitals, so it is quite hard
to mismatch them with a "T" or "t" shaped cross.
[Hammond]
Look, you are failing to distinguish between the Cross
and the Trinity. The Cross is the STRUCTURAL symbol of
Psychology based on the orthogonal cleavage of the brain
while the Trinity represents the DYNAMIC structure of
psychology because it is the trinary feedback loop commonly
known as the "father son and holy spirit" which controls the
mind. The CROSS and the TRINITY in the Egyptian religion
were known as the ANKH and the DJED.
No trinity comparable to the christian belief
system existed in Egyptian mythology.
[Hammond]
Says who... you... an unemployed truck drive and amateur
musician fro ausberg... give me a break! You don't know
what you're talking about.... you're so far in over your
head it's ridiculous.

THE DJED PILLAR IS THE
SYMBOL OF THE TRINITY
IN THE EGYPTIAN RELIGION

In that respect, the Egyptian religion is equal to or
superior than Christianity, and certainly more sophisticated
than the Mosaic religion.
Post by Bernhard Schornak
Egypt's gods and godesses were merged in some
thousand years, assigning powers of the basic
entities to the new one, but one of both dis-
appeared in this process.
[Hammond]
Are you kidding.. the Egyptian Pantheon was more
sophisticated than the Greco-Roman Pantheon and predates the
modern Pantheon of "Mickey Mouse, donald Duck, Bugs Bunny
and Porky Pig" by 4,000 years! You don't know what you're
talking about.
Post by Bernhard Schornak
The Ankh (per se) was the symbol of life, the
oval part symbolised the never ending "circle
of life". In comparison, the cross always was
a symbol for painful death. Think of the many
people who were crucified throughout hundreds
and hundreds of years. Early christians never
worshipped the cross as holy symbol - many of
them were crucified themselves, no motivation
to pray to a tool which might be used to kill
you the very next day.
About the Djed - you are interpreting things,
giving this more than 5,000 year old symbol a
new meaning.
[Hammond]
Baloney, Christianiy didn't discover the Trinity until
500 years after Jesus was dead for chrissakes.
The Egyptians knew about it and it was a central symbol
of Egyptian religion for thousands of years before
Christianity.
Post by Bernhard Schornak
At the times the symbol was used
first, religuous beliefs just had made a step
from natural deities to polytheism. There was
no monotheism at that time - monotheistic re-
ligions came up between 2,000 BCE (India) and
1,300 BCE (Echnaton, "Canaanites"), where the
Canaanite version is the base for the Jewish,
Christian and Islamic belief systems.
[Hammond]
You don't know what you're talking about. The "Sun god
Re" was the supreme god of ancient Egypt.. and in that sense
the Egyptian religion was MONOTHEISTIC.... just as
monotheistic as Christianity.
Fact is, "religion" consists of 4 orders of EIGENVECTORS
of psychological structure. The 4th order factor is "God"
with a capital G and all religions contain THAT EIGENVECTOR.
However there are 4- 3rd Order eigenvectors, and
Chrisitanity retains these 4 "demigods" and calls them
"Matthew, Mark, Luke and John", and the Egyptians also
retained then.... Horus for instance was Luke in the
Egyptian religion.
There are 13- 2nd order eigenvectors and these a re the
"Olympic gods" of Greece and Rome... and they are the 12
major "gods" of the ancient Egyptian pantheon.... Anubis,
Thoth, Khephri, Khnum, Sobek, etc, etc.
Post by Bernhard Schornak
Does a "trinity" control our minds? Well, not
mine.
[Hammond]
Tthat's what you think... and obviously it pisses you off
that there are other people who know better and know EXACTLY
what is controlling your mind and controlling you... and the
fact that you can't do anything about it pisses you off....
but so what... that's your problem, not ours!
,.
Post by Bernhard Schornak
At least, I hope that no entity ever is
going to violate Universal Laws,
[Hammond]
The pnenomenn of "God" does not volate any universal
laws.... in fact the phenomenon of God is the ORIGIN of all
"universal laws" doncha know.
Post by Bernhard Schornak
granting all
lifeforms the Right of Self-Determination.
[Hammond]
Hey... you have self determination and so does everybody
else.... if you want to rail against higher learning go
ahead.... but don't expect anyone to take you seriously!
Post by Bernhard Schornak
Greetings from Augsburg
Bernhard Schornak
Greetings from Hyannis
George Hammond
========================================
GEORGE HAMMOND'S PROOF OF GOD WEBSITE
Primary site
http://webspace.webring.com/people/eg/george_hammond
Mirror site
http://proof-of-god.freewebsitehosting.com
HAMMOND FOLK SONG by Casey Bennetto
http://interrobang.jwgh.org/songs/hammond.mp3
=======================================
Bernhard Schornak
2010-07-31 07:46:38 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by George Hammond
Post by Bernhard Schornak
Post by George Hammond
Post by Bernhard Schornak
Post by George Hammond
____
| |
=========
| |
=========
| |
=========
| |
| |
| |
| |
/ \
/ \
=====
THE DJED-PILLAR
The Djed-pillar was a ubiquitous divine symbol in ancient
Egypt. It ranks perhaps second only to the Ankh as a
religious symbol yet no one knows the origin of the
Djed-pillar. Budge thought it was a mason's table which I
find incredible while some have suggested it was originally
a Nileometer.
Doubtlessly the suggestive psychological form of the
object places it in the common "Venetian blind" category
which is well known to evoke a visual nuance of
transcendence.
In addition, there was a well established Heb-Sed
ceremony known as the "Raising of the Djed-pillar" which is
shown in a startling realistic bas-relief in the temple of
Seti-I at Abydos. The act of "raising" the pillar seems to
add force to the conjecture that the Venetian blind like
structure does indeed symbolize "transcendent perception",
and that the Pharaoh perhaps was held responsible for
"raising the bar" of the general perceptual level of the
population. The Djed pillar in other words was the
pre-Christian symbol of what is referred to as the
"transfiguration" in modern religion... or perhaps more
accurately the "Holy Spirit" itself.
The modern "Cross" has long since replaced the Ankh and
one wonders if perhaps the Nimbus (i.e. "halo") of modern
Christian art has perhaps replaced the Djed symbol?
Does Anyone have any other theories as to what the
symbolic meaning of the Djed-pillar actually was or from
whence the physical form of the object originated?
[Hammond]
Hi Bernie.
Greetings from Hyannis.
Hi George,
are you okay?
[Hammond]
Is the Pope a Catholic?
Nope - he's a pope (belonging to a rope...).


<personal stuff accepted & snipped>
Post by George Hammond
Post by Bernhard Schornak
Post by George Hammond
Post by Bernhard Schornak
Alan Gardiner described Djed as a column imitating a
bundle of stalks tied together, and that is probably
its true meaning.
[Hammond]
Since Gardiner is the progenitor of that clumbsy academic
fable we can be sure it is incorrect, even foolish.
Gardiner was a linguist and scholar of classical
literature. Egyptology for him was purely a hobby.
To know what the Djed is one must be first a physicist,
second, a psychologist, and third a theologian. Gardiner is
neither.
A sligtly modified version of Gardiner's des-
cription was used by James P. Allan.
http://research.brown.edu/research/profile.php?id=1170774357&r=1
[Hammond]
Allen, like Gardiner is not a scientist (e.g. physicist)
nor is he a psychologist or a theologian. You can't expect
a line professional linguist or literature expert or an
"Egyoptologist" to tell you anything new or scientific about
the Egyotian religion.
Ummh, well. So: Physics are the realm of musicians,
music is the realm of Egyptologists, Egypt religion
is the realm of physicists, psychologists and theo-
logians, bible studies are the realm of actors, the
human psyche is the realm of mathematicians, and so
on. What a mess...

Actually, I doubt that physicists are interested in
ancient Egypt mythology at all. Metaphysics, as the
name suggests, are outside the scope of physicists.
Post by George Hammond
Most "Egyptologists" of the past century have been museum
curators for chrissakes... including Budge. Fact is, a
PHYSICIST (Thomas Young of two slit fame) made the first
breakthrouh in decipering Heiroglyphics. Champollian built
on Young's work.
Akerblad deciphered parts of the Rosetta Stone *12*
years before Young. Young improved Akerblad's work,
but Champollion was the one who came up with a com-
plete translation.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egyptian_hieroglyphs
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johan_David_Åkerblad
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Young_(scientist)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean-Francois_Champollion
Post by George Hammond
Post by Bernhard Schornak
Post by George Hammond
Post by Bernhard Schornak
[Schornak]
The Djed
pillar is seen as a phallic symbol, and "raising the
pillar" might have been a picturesque circumlocution
for "getting an errection"
[Hammond]
More academic style staircase wit. The Egyptians weren't
stupid, unsophisticated nor vulgar.
Mea culpa... Those pictures just suggest this
as one possible meaning. Egyptians weren't as
prude as today's people!
[Hammond]
Look... anyone with half a brain in his head and any
practical knowlege can see that the Djed was a NILEOMETER.
The water level of the Nile was the first fact of life in
ancient Egypt ... taxes were even computed on the height of
the Nile due to crop returns.
EVERY field must have had a Djed-Nileometer planted in the
middle of it so the water level could be seen at a glance.
In fact here is a picture of a modern Djed pillar from an
http://www.lonebiker.dk/Ausbilleder/6.jpg
The highest level shown is 27 meters.
If this isn't a modern day Djed-pillar I'll eat my hat!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nilometer

Does not look like a Djed pillar...
Post by George Hammond
Post by Bernhard Schornak
Post by George Hammond
Raising the Djed was what is captured in todays euphemism
"raising the bar", in this case for admission into the
trancendental levels of reality. The Djed symbolized the
"Holy Spirit" in Egyptian divinity.
Whose bar should be raised?
[Hammond]
Are you kidding... the Pharoah as defender of the faith
and spiritual leader of the country was responsible for
"setting the bar" of spritual enlightenment... which is what
his raising of the Djed pillar represented.
I think the ceremony should show that the king (pr-
ao came up in the New Kingdom, but was not an offi-
cial title for the king) still was healthy and in a
good condition to do his job.
Post by George Hammond
Post by Bernhard Schornak
The kings were an
incarnation of their gods, no one had a right
to question them or measure them against any-
thing.
[Hammond]
You got it backwards... everybody else was measured
relative to the king...not only every lenght was meqasured
relative to the kings foot... everbodies MENTAL
ENLIGHTENMENT was measured relative to his which is WHY he
was responsible for "raising the pillar".
See above. No one was measured against the king, as
no one was measured against the gods and godesses -
you cannot measure mortals against over-beings. The
kings were incarnations of the gods...
Post by George Hammond
Post by Bernhard Schornak
BTW: There also were Djed pillars with five
http://www.aegyptologie.com/forum/attachments/DjedCnv0439.jpg
[Hammond]
Yes, obviously... and thanks for that picture. The
actual nileometers probably were telephone pole sized with
10 or more crossbars, since the Nile rose as much as 25 feet
some years. the Djed Symbol is only a stylized iconic
representation of the real thing... it caputres the
"visuo-psychological impact" of the thing.
Only in the Southernmost parts of Egypt. In Memphis
(Mn-nfr, Hwt-k3-pth) it was just 2 meters. I think,
your are a little bit besides the real thing. Djeds
are symbols of pillars. Measuring the height of the
flood could have been done with simple stakes. When
they had the urgent need to do that with precision,
the corresponding instruments had been found every-
where, but none were found, except nilometers build
under Sethos I's regency (21st dynasty) and later.

There was no real need for nilometers between 3,000
and 100 BCE, because the level of the mediterranean
sea did not change in that time. After 100 BCE, the
level constantly increased, causing some minor pro-
blems with tidal floodings of lower regions.
Post by George Hammond
Post by Bernhard Schornak
Post by George Hammond
Post by Bernhard Schornak
[Schornak]
The cross was just an instrument to kill people with
maximum pain.
[Hammond]
Na... its design is supposed to inflict "psychological
pain" not merely physical pain.
Your assumption.
[Hammond]
Na.... now that the Structural Mosdel of Personality has
been PROVEN to be crusiform, it is no longer an
"assumption"... sorry, you lose.
Post by Bernhard Schornak
Crucifixion came up with the
phoenicians about 1,000 BCE, and made its way
through the next 1,400 years. Main purpose is
to extend the time to die, there's no need to
do "psychological pain". The physical process
itself surely is nothing you ever want to ex-
perience on your own.
[Hammond]
hey... cut the war stories.... I'm 68 years old and come
from a military family. We're here to discuss the
scientific proof of God not the history of terrorism.
Just for the record: Your sentence implies that Je-
sus was a terrorist.
Post by George Hammond
Post by Bernhard Schornak
Post by George Hammond
Post by Bernhard Schornak
[Schornak]
Moreover, there is a huge difference between an Ankh
and a cross.
[Hammond]
Na... there is more similarity than difference. It had
the same message, it was the heiroglyphic symbol for "life"
which is what the modern Cross of Christianity stands for
whether it is on the roof of a Mexican adobe church or on an
ancient Celtic headstone.
Probably you forget that the christian symbol
was the<fish>
[Hammond]
Fish, snakes and birds are ephemeral symbols of
psychological syndromes. The snake and the bird being
perhaps foremost. This is why the Phaorh wore a Snake and a
Bird on his forehead 16 hours a day.... half the population
was as scared as sparrows of bullys and the other half had
some form of god awful contageous disease and felt like
untouchables... therefore the Pharoah wore a snake and a
bird on his forehead to let you KNOW that he KNEW what you
were afraid of and that HE understood it and therefore that
it was safe to talk to him.
Where is the connection between the christian fish-
symbol (which meant something like free as a fish!)
and the Jaret Snake or the Nechbet Veil?
Post by George Hammond
Post by Bernhard Schornak
until they usurpated the Roman
empire. The cross became the symbol after 350
CE, not earlier. I doubt that many christians
knew the Ankh. If they did, it was the symbol
of a pagan religion - "Satan's work". Keep in
mind that the Egyptian culture was dead about
750 years before year zero - it was conquered
and influenced by many other parties like the
Libyans, Assyrians, Persians, Greeks, Romans,
Arabs...
As a result, the mixture of Egypt and foreign
mythologies known in the the Roman period had
not much to do with those traditional beliefs
worshipped until the fall of the New Kingdom.
[Hammond]
Na... you are still under the sway of traditional
academic teaching which holds that all religion is
"arbitrary convention" and not founded on immutable
axiomatic physicial laws.
I'm reading books about ancient egypt history since
about 42 years now, so I should know a "little bit"
about ancient Egypt and its myths. Actually, I'm no
believer of weird theories - I just rely on facts.

If you can provide (yet) unknown facts, just let me
know.
Post by George Hammond
This ignorant belief is of course
false, and academics are as outdated as buggy whips.
Facts require no beliefs - they *are*.
Post by George Hammond
Richard
Dawkins is a typical example... he doesn't even believe
there is a God... and here I am having actually published
the scientific proof there is in the peer reviewed
literature.... what a joke!
Who is Richard Dawkins? Where is the connection be-
tween Dawkins, SPOG and scientific historical stud-
ies (in this case Egyptology)?
Post by George Hammond
Post by Bernhard Schornak
Post by George Hammond
[Schornak]
Post by Bernhard Schornak
Djed pillars have four capitals, so it is quite hard
to mismatch them with a "T" or "t" shaped cross.
[Hammond]
Look, you are failing to distinguish between the Cross
and the Trinity. The Cross is the STRUCTURAL symbol of
Psychology based on the orthogonal cleavage of the brain
while the Trinity represents the DYNAMIC structure of
psychology because it is the trinary feedback loop commonly
known as the "father son and holy spirit" which controls the
mind. The CROSS and the TRINITY in the Egyptian religion
were known as the ANKH and the DJED.
No trinity comparable to the christian belief
system existed in Egyptian mythology.
[Hammond]
Says who... you... an unemployed truck drive and amateur
musician fro ausberg... give me a break! You don't know
what you're talking about.... you're so far in over your
head it's ridiculous.
Seems you have no arguments to come up with?

I'm surely not an amateur musician, as I had my own
studio and produced a single (EP) and one LP. There
is a difference between amateurs and professionals.

http://www.youtube.com/user/BernhardSchornak

By the way, my education is comparable to your's. I
visited a technical college, JFYI. You surely don't
want to blame me that I couldn't go to school _and_
do a full time job at the same time?
Post by George Hammond
THE DJED PILLAR IS THE
SYMBOL OF THE TRINITY
IN THE EGYPTIAN RELIGION
In that respect, the Egyptian religion is equal to or
superior than Christianity, and certainly more sophisticated
than the Mosaic religion.
Writing claims in all capital letters doesn't prove
them. If you think that Romet gods and godesses are
better than the Jewish or Christian religions, it's
worth a thought to convert. No Romet priests there,
so no one tells you what to do - isn't that great?
Post by George Hammond
Post by Bernhard Schornak
Egypt's gods and godesses were merged in some
thousand years, assigning powers of the basic
entities to the new one, but one of both dis-
appeared in this process.
[Hammond]
Are you kidding.. the Egyptian Pantheon was more
sophisticated than the Greco-Roman Pantheon and predates the
modern Pantheon of "Mickey Mouse, donald Duck, Bugs Bunny
and Porky Pig" by 4,000 years! You don't know what you're
talking about.
What has your reply to do with the sentences above?

Where's the connection between cartoons and ancient
entities like Osiris or Nechet? You surely know the
Greek and Roman pantheons included several Egyptian
entities. The basis of the Egyptian patheon already
existed in 3,700 BCE, hence it should be 5,700, not
4,000 years...
Post by George Hammond
Post by Bernhard Schornak
The Ankh (per se) was the symbol of life, the
oval part symbolised the never ending "circle
of life". In comparison, the cross always was
a symbol for painful death. Think of the many
people who were crucified throughout hundreds
and hundreds of years. Early christians never
worshipped the cross as holy symbol - many of
them were crucified themselves, no motivation
to pray to a tool which might be used to kill
you the very next day.
About the Djed - you are interpreting things,
giving this more than 5,000 year old symbol a
new meaning.
[Hammond]
Baloney, Christianiy didn't discover the Trinity until
500 years after Jesus was dead for chrissakes.
The "trinity" was declared as a dogma 325 CE at the
1st council of Nicaea. There's no such thing in any
other religion on this planet.
Post by George Hammond
The Egyptians knew about it and it was a central symbol
of Egyptian religion for thousands of years before
Christianity.
Please prove this claim. It is not backed up by any
facts. Trinity was the fabrication of Origenes (185
- 254 CE). His writings influenced Silvester I. and
Ossius von Córdoba, who wanted to ban Arianism from
the body of the "true" church. Obviously, they won.
Arianism denied "trinity" completely.
Post by George Hammond
Post by Bernhard Schornak
At the times the symbol was used
first, religuous beliefs just had made a step
from natural deities to polytheism. There was
no monotheism at that time - monotheistic re-
ligions came up between 2,000 BCE (India) and
1,300 BCE (Echnaton, "Canaanites"), where the
Canaanite version is the base for the Jewish,
Christian and Islamic belief systems.
[Hammond]
You don't know what you're talking about. The "Sun god
Re" was the supreme god of ancient Egypt.. and in that sense
the Egyptian religion was MONOTHEISTIC.... just as
monotheistic as Christianity.
This might be your personal interpretation of poly-
or monotheism. However, I use the same definions as
the majority of all scientists. If you use your own
definitions, you should send proposals to normation
committees of the corresponding faculties - as long
as your definitions are not official, I continue to
use the standard definitions, okay?
Post by George Hammond
Fact is, "religion" consists of 4 orders of EIGENVECTORS
of psychological structure.
Do you really have the urgent need to shear, shrink
or stretch the entity you believe in?
Post by George Hammond
The 4th order factor is "God"
with a capital G and all religions contain THAT EIGENVECTOR.
God is omni-whatever - 4th order is quite mingy for
a power beyond comprehension. A believer should use
infinity, it is the only appropriate parameter.
Post by George Hammond
However there are 4- 3rd Order eigenvectors, and
Chrisitanity retains these 4 "demigods" and calls them
"Matthew, Mark, Luke and John", and the Egyptians also
retained then.... Horus for instance was Luke in the
Egyptian religion.
Horus was a god, Luke (if he ever existed) was just
a mortal who wrote stories about a god. How can you
compare a god with a mortal?
Post by George Hammond
There are 13- 2nd order eigenvectors and these a re the
"Olympic gods" of Greece and Rome... and they are the 12
major "gods" of the ancient Egyptian pantheon.... Anubis,
Thoth, Khephri, Khnum, Sobek, etc, etc.
There were much more of them. A Romet knew at least
37 main gods and godesses, the Greek had even more.
Post by George Hammond
Post by Bernhard Schornak
Does a "trinity" control our minds? Well, not
mine.
[Hammond]
Tthat's what you think... and obviously it pisses you off
that there are other people who know better and know EXACTLY
what is controlling your mind and controlling you... and the
fact that you can't do anything about it pisses you off....
but so what... that's your problem, not ours!
Think about it - do you really believe in an entity
talking with billions of copies of itself, speaking
what it implants in their minds? Must be absolutely
boring to have no one you can talk to without know-
ing all (implanted) answers some years before those
(implanted) questions are asked. This surely is the
worst design of any entity I've ever heard of. Even
the christian religion leaves more room for indivi-
dual personal development.
Post by George Hammond
Post by Bernhard Schornak
At least, I hope that no entity ever is
going to violate Universal Laws,
[Hammond]
The pnenomenn of "God" does not volate any universal
laws.... in fact the phenomenon of God is the ORIGIN of all
"universal laws" doncha know.
No, I don't. As a matter of fact, the bible defini-
tely does not grant Rights, it defines Plights. And
the bible is acknowledged as the word of god in the
Jewish, christian and Moslemic religion.
Post by George Hammond
Post by Bernhard Schornak
granting all
lifeforms the Right of Self-Determination.
[Hammond]
Hey... you have self determination and so does everybody
else.... if you want to rail against higher learning go
ahead.... but don't expect anyone to take you seriously!
You told the opposite some paragraphs above. Either
we are completely controlled by a "holy spirit", or
we decide on our own. Both states are mutual exclu-
sive.

What is "higher learning"? Do you comprehend this

http://code.google.com/p/st-open/ or this
http://st-intelligentdesign.blogspot.com/ or this
http://thepoolofhumanity.blogspot.com/ ?

I do not take myself too serious. Why should anyone
else?


Greetings from Augsburg

Bernhard Schornak
George Hammond
2010-07-31 20:33:16 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Sat, 31 Jul 2010 09:46:38 +0200, Bernhard Schornak
Post by Bernhard Schornak
Post by George Hammond
Post by George Hammond
[Hammond]
Is the Pope a Catholic?
Nope - he's a pope (belonging to a rope...).
[Hammond]
What's that supposed to be a non sequitur?
<Snip>
Post by Bernhard Schornak
Post by George Hammond
[Hammond]
Allen, like Gardiner is not a scientist (e.g. physicist)
nor is he a psychologist or a theologian. You can't expect
a line professional linguist or literature expert or an
"Egyoptologist" to tell you anything new or scientific about
the Egyotian religion.
Actually, I doubt that physicists are interested in
ancient Egypt mythology at all. Metaphysics, as the
name suggests, are outside the scope of physicists.
[Hammond]
that's simply more "Shornak misinformation" something
you're famous for. The fact is the great physicist Thomas
Young was one of the first to decipher the Egyptian
alphabet. Beyond that, Isaac Newton history's most famous
physicist left 5 million written words on the subject of God
and religion. So once again it is clear that you don't know
what you're talking about.
Post by Bernhard Schornak
Post by George Hammond
Most "Egyptologists" of the past century have been museum
curators for chrissakes... including Budge. Fact is, a
PHYSICIST (Thomas Young of two slit fame) made the first
breakthrouh in decipering Heiroglyphics. Champollian built
on Young's work.
Akerblad deciphered parts of the Rosetta Stone *12*
years before Young. Young improved Akerblad's work,
but Champollion was the one who came up with a com-
plete translation.
[Hammond]
That's an accurate statement, but is also a statement
that appears in every textbook on the subject and is well
known to everyone. Posting common knowledge for the sake
of hearing yourself talk is an annoying habit if not
deliberate harassment.
<snip>
Post by Bernhard Schornak
Post by George Hammond
In fact here is a picture of a modern Djed pillar from an
http://www.lonebiker.dk/Ausbilleder/6.jpg
The highest level shown is 27 meters.
If this isn't a modern day Djed-pillar I'll eat my hat!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nilometer
Does not look like a Djed pillar...
[Hammond]
Another blatant misstatement of fact. Many Djed pillars
made in stone and fired clay were FLAT and looked
EXACTLY like this picture. Quit lying!
<Snip>
Post by Bernhard Schornak
Post by George Hammond
Post by George Hammond
The kings were an
incarnation of their gods, no one had a right
to question them or measure them against any-
thing.
[Hammond]
You got it backwards... everybody else was measured
relative to the king...not only every lenght was meqasured
relative to the kings foot... everbodies MENTAL
ENLIGHTENMENT was measured relative to his which is WHY he
was responsible for "raising the pillar".
See above. No one was measured against the king, as
no one was measured against the gods and godesses -
you cannot measure mortals against over-beings. The
kings were incarnations of the gods...
[Hammond]
Your statement is not only blatantly stupid, wrong and
impudent, it obviously defies common opinion.
Everyone is always measured against the best in any field.
If the best is given a score of 100, everyone else gets a
score between one and 100.
Absolute perfection, is the perfect score, and we are all
rated on that scale.
Your habit of arguing for arguments sake is rude, ugly
and universally recognized as a common form of harassment,
in the end you're just a heckler.
Post by Bernhard Schornak
Post by George Hammond
Post by George Hammond
BTW: There also were Djed pillars with five
http://www.aegyptologie.com/forum/attachments/DjedCnv0439.jpg
[Hammond]
Yes, obviously... and thanks for that picture. The
actual nileometers probably were telephone pole sized with
10 or more crossbars, since the Nile rose as much as 25 feet
some years. the Djed Symbol is only a stylized iconic
representation of the real thing... it caputres the
"visuo-psychological impact" of the thing.
Only in the Southernmost parts of Egypt. In Memphis
(Mn-nfr, Hwt-k3-pth) it was just 2 meters. I think,
your are a little bit besides the real thing.
[Hammond]
Look, that picture of SETI the first raising the Djed
pillar in the temple at Abdyos shows the Djed pillar to be
just exactly about 2 m tall. In the early days there
must've been one of these things in every field, every
canal, and every reservoir allowing an instant
assessment of the current water level at a single glance
telling them whether to open the sluice gates and let
more water into the field or not.
Post by Bernhard Schornak
There was no real need for nilometers between 3,000
and 100 BCE, because the level of the mediterranean
sea did not change in that time. After 100 BCE, the
level constantly increased, causing some minor pro-
blems with tidal floodings of lower regions.
[Hammond]
You don't know what you're talking about. It was of
critical importance during all eras to know how fast and how
high or how low the Nile was rising. The Nile roses much as
25 feet in some places.
Post by Bernhard Schornak
Post by George Hammond
Post by George Hammond
Post by George Hammond
[Schornak]
The cross was just an instrument to kill people with
maximum pain.
[Hammond]
Na... its design is supposed to inflict "psychological
pain" not merely physical pain.
Your assumption.
[Hammond]
Na.... now that the Structural Mosdel of Personality has
been PROVEN to be crusiform, it is no longer an
"assumption"... sorry, you lose.
Post by George Hammond
Crucifixion came up with the
phoenicians about 1,000 BCE, and made its way
through the next 1,400 years. Main purpose is
to extend the time to die, there's no need to
do "psychological pain". The physical process
itself surely is nothing you ever want to ex-
perience on your own.
[Hammond]
hey... cut the war stories.... I'm 68 years old and come
from a military family. We're here to discuss the
scientific proof of God not the history of terrorism.
Just for the record: Your sentence implies that Je-
sus was a terrorist.
[Hammond]
Oh cut the amateur bull shit, this isn't a Sunday
school discussion. Pedal the street rap somewhere else.
<Snip>
Post by Bernhard Schornak
Post by George Hammond
Post by George Hammond
Probably you forget that the christian symbol
was the<fish>
[Hammond]
Fish, snakes and birds are ephemeral symbols of
psychological syndromes. The snake and the bird being
perhaps foremost. This is why the Phaorh wore a Snake and a
Bird on his forehead 16 hours a day.... half the population
was as scared as sparrows of bullys and the other half had
some form of god awful contageous disease and felt like
untouchables... therefore the Pharoah wore a snake and a
bird on his forehead to let you KNOW that he KNEW what you
were afraid of and that HE understood it and therefore that
it was safe to talk to him.
Where is the connection between the christian fish-
symbol (which meant something like free as a fish!)
and the Jaret Snake or the Nechbet Veil?
[Hammond]
For Christ sakes Bernie, how old are you? A "fish",
that is the smell of a fish, is the world's oldest reference
the penalty attendant on female lack of chastity. What
the hell do you think a "mermaid" is supposed to represent?
You don't know nothing of Bernie, you know nothing about
life! You do realize that the entire Bible is one
long sermon on chastity.... don't you? The fish is the
symbol of female unchastity, and the snake is the symbol of
male unchastity. You're so stupid it's embarrassing , dummy
up for Christ sakes!
<Snip>
Post by Bernhard Schornak
Post by George Hammond
[Hammond]
Na... you are still under the sway of traditional
academic teaching which holds that all religion is
"arbitrary convention" and not founded on immutable
axiomatic physicial laws.
I'm reading books about ancient egypt history since
about 42 years now,
[Hammond]
I've spent devades studying ancient Egypt, especially the
religion of ancient Egypt. Physics has a long tradition
of this as I have mentioned, going back to Newton
and Young. As a physicist I am following
in their footsteps.
Post by Bernhard Schornak
Actually, I'm no
believer of weird theories - I just rely on facts.
If you can provide (yet) unknown facts, just let me
know.
[Hammond]
I'm a physicist with credentials to prove it, you are
not. I've published a scientific proof of God in the
peer-reviewed literature. You're not qualified to read it
because you don't even know what an eigenvector is.
So once again, you're sitting there telling a physicist
that you "only believe in facts" and that I haven't stated
any, is not only a blatant lie, it is obviously nothing but
deliberate heckling by an unqualified and aggravated
pseudo-intellectual wannabee.
Post by Bernhard Schornak
Post by George Hammond
This ignorant belief is of course
false, and academics are as outdated as buggy whips.
Facts require no beliefs - they *are*.
[Hammond]
There are two accredited universities in Massachusetts
who have publicly certified that I know what a scientific
fact is.
On the other hand, there is absolutely no certified
corroboration that you do.
Post by Bernhard Schornak
Post by George Hammond
Richard
Dawkins is a typical example... he doesn't even believe
there is a God... and here I am having actually published
the scientific proof there is in the peer reviewed
literature.... what a joke!
Who is Richard Dawkins? Where is the connection be-
tween Dawkins, SPOG and scientific historical stud-
ies (in this case Egyptology)?
[Hammond]
Did you say "who is Richard Dawkins". For Christ's sake
Bernie, he is the world's most famous living biologist. He's
a full professor at Oxford, has written half a dozen
best-selling books which have been translated into
half a dozen foreign languages. In fact, he happens to be
at the present moment the world's most famous atheist.
Post by Bernhard Schornak
Post by George Hammond
Post by George Hammond
Post by George Hammond
[Schornak]
Djed pillars have four capitals, so it is quite hard
to mismatch them with a "T" or "t" shaped cross.
[Hammond]
Look, you are failing to distinguish between the Cross
and the Trinity. The Cross is the STRUCTURAL symbol of
Psychology based on the orthogonal cleavage of the brain
while the Trinity represents the DYNAMIC structure of
psychology because it is the trinary feedback loop commonly
known as the "father son and holy spirit" which controls the
mind. The CROSS and the TRINITY in the Egyptian religion
were known as the ANKH and the DJED.
No trinity comparable to the christian belief
system existed in Egyptian mythology.
[Hammond]
You have absolutely a ludicrous lack of any qualification
whatsoever to make such a statement and that fact has been
more than adequately documented.
Post by Bernhard Schornak
Post by George Hammond
[Hammond]
Says who... you... an unemployed truck drive and amateur
musician fro ausberg... give me a break! You don't know
what you're talking about.... you're so far in over your
head it's ridiculous.
Seems you have no arguments to come up with?
[Hammond]
My arguments have been published and are are presented in
this thread. You're the one who has no counter arguments
to present.
Post by Bernhard Schornak
I'm surely not an amateur musician, as I had my own
studio and produced a single (EP) and one LP. There
is a difference between amateurs and professionals.
http://www.youtube.com/user/BernhardSchornak
By the way, my education is comparable to your's. I
visited a technical college, JFYI. You surely don't
want to blame me that I couldn't go to school _and_
do a full time job at the same time?
[Hammond]
I have 2 degrees in theoretical physics, you have none,
end of argument. For you to sit there and say that
your education is comparable to mine, is
nothing but the bleeting of an aggravated and
envious jackass wannabee. You're a heckler Bernie,
nothing more. The way I understand it,
Germany is full of them.
Post by Bernhard Schornak
Post by George Hammond
THE DJED PILLAR IS THE
SYMBOL OF THE TRINITY
IN THE EGYPTIAN RELIGION
In that respect, the Egyptian religion is equal to or
superior than Christianity, and certainly more sophisticated
than the Mosaic religion.
Writing claims in all capital letters doesn't prove
them. If you think that Romet gods and godesses are
better than the Jewish or Christian religions, it's
worth a thought to convert. No Romet priests there,
so no one tells you what to do - isn't that great?
[Hammond]
You're an ignorant jackass Bernie. I've published the
proof in the peer reviewed literature that the "gods" of all
of the pagan religions are the second order eigenvectors,
and I have discovered the proof of this in the fact that
they are cubically correlated by the orthogonal cleavage
of the brain. That is a HISTORIC scientific discovery.
Two kinds of people are aware that this historic
discovery has been made by Hammond. First are the
authorities, who are outraged with envy and scared to death
of me and don't dare talk to me because they know that I
have the drop on them. And the second are heckling rabble
such as you.
Fortunately, I have full protection against both enemies.
First I am an American and protected by the Constitution
and the world's leading military power, which means that no
foreigners can threaten me. Secondly, I live in a
prestigious area and and am well-connected politically
so that no American academic authorities dare screw
around with me either. Thirdly. Thanks to the advent of
the Internet and American free speech guarantees,
I can pound the shit out my enemies all day long.
And lastly, I'm using voice recognition technology and
dictating this at 130 words a minute..... so that you
can't even out talk me!
Post by Bernhard Schornak
Post by George Hammond
Post by George Hammond
Egypt's gods and godesses were merged in some
thousand years, assigning powers of the basic
entities to the new one, but one of both dis-
appeared in this process.
[Hammond]
Are you kidding.. the Egyptian Pantheon was more
sophisticated than the Greco-Roman Pantheon and predates the
modern Pantheon of "Mickey Mouse, donald Duck, Bugs Bunny
and Porky Pig" by 4,000 years! You don't know what you're
talking about.
What has your reply to do with the sentences above?
[Hammond]
The point is, since it is obviously over your head, that
the origin of the gods, the number of the gods, and the
character of the gods, is NOT ARBITRARY. The gods
since they originate in an axiomatic law of physics, are
identical in every age in every society and in every
religion, so therefore, YOUR explanation of the gods
is nothing but a pile of outdated rubbish.
Post by Bernhard Schornak
Where's the connection between cartoons and ancient
entities like Osiris or Nechet? You surely know the
Greek and Roman pantheons included several Egyptian
entities. The basis of the Egyptian patheon already
existed in 3,700 BCE, hence it should be 5,700, not
4,000 years...
[Hammond]
What you're trying to play dumb now? The Egyptian
Pantheon consisted of animal headed anthropomorphic
deities. What the hell do you think Mickey Mouse,
Donald Duck, and Porky pig are, if they are not animal
headed anthropomorphic "god's".
<Snip>
Post by Bernhard Schornak
Post by George Hammond
[Hammond]
Baloney, Christianiy didn't discover the Trinity until
500 years after Jesus was dead for chrissakes.
The "trinity" was declared as a dogma 325 CE at the
1st council of Nicaea.
[Hammond]
okay, 325 years after Jesus was dead.
Post by Bernhard Schornak
There's no such thing in any
other religion on this planet.
[Hammond]
Thats where you are full of shit Bernie. It turns out
that the ancient Egyptian religion, is the one other major
religion in the history of the world that contains an
explicit representation of the Trinity, and that is the Djed
pillar. Fact is, the Egyptians discovered it long before
the Christians.
Trying to explain that to you, is of course useless,
you're not even qualified to read my published proof
of the scientific origin of the Cross!
Post by Bernhard Schornak
Post by George Hammond
The Egyptians knew about it and it was a central symbol
of Egyptian religion for thousands of years before
Christianity.
Please prove this claim. It is not backed up by any
facts.
Hammond[]
it is backed up by my publication in the peer-reviewed
literature of the discovery of the structural model of
personality and the discovery of the world's first
scientific proof of God. Since you are qualified
to comprehend neither one of those theories, you are simply
not qualified to understand the proof. End of discussion.
You're not even qualified to read Einstein's theory,
therefore you're not qualified to comprehend the proof that
gravity is a curvature. Just because YOU are not qualified
to understand something does NOT mean it is not true .
<snip rest of tedious amateur commentary>
========================================
GEORGE HAMMOND'S PROOF OF GOD WEBSITE
Primary site
http://webspace.webring.com/people/eg/george_hammond
Mirror site
http://proof-of-god.freewebsitehosting.com
HAMMOND FOLK SONG by Casey Bennetto
http://interrobang.jwgh.org/songs/hammond.mp3
=======================================
George Hammond
2010-08-01 04:45:03 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Sat, 31 Jul 2010 16:33:16 -0400, George Hammond
Post by George Hammond
On Sat, 31 Jul 2010 09:46:38 +0200, Bernhard Schornak
[Hammond]
P.S.----
On the subject of the Trinity, the fact that you are
unaware of is that the Trinity is a SCIENTIFIC OBJECT caused
by a scentific fact. Basically, the body has a genotypic
blueprint for a perfect physical body and it proceeds to
produce that body (the phenotype) using a feedback loop
where the output is supposed to equal the input.
Unfortunately the output never equals the input... no one
turns out to be fully grown, which causes part of the mind
to be "unconscious" (i.e. ungrown), so mentally speaking we
have a feedback loop which is shown here:

http://webspace.webring.com/people/eg/george_hammond/TrinityFAQ.html

This fact exists irregardless of the existence of any
religion, however history shows that after a long enough
time any religion will discover it. Christianity discovered
it in 325 AD, the Egyptians discovered it at least by the
first dynasty since we find Djed Pillars in 1st Dynasty
graves.

While the 4th century Christians identified the Trinity
THEORETICALLY and had a clear idea of the 3 parts of the
feedback look, and named them:

INPUT = FATHER (fully grown body)
OUTPUT=SON (actually grown body)
FEEDBACK=HOLY GHOST (the unconscious ungrown mind)

The egyptians identified the Trinity DIRECTLY, that is by
direct empirical observation of human mental function... IOW
they could SEE how well another person could comprehend
reality and thereby EMPIRICALLY judge the size of his
unconscious mind relativie to his conscious mind. They
REPRESENTED this PSYCHOLOGICAL PHENOMENON as a verticle
scale:
______
| |
===========
| | ( FATHER)
===========
| | (SON)
===========
| | ( HOLY GHOST)
===========
| |
| |
| |
| |
| |
| |
| |
/ \
------------

known as the DJED, or in modern terms, the Trinity.

So DRAMATIC, instantanous and memorable is the
psycho-perceptual visual impact of this "Venetian blind"
type structure and its OBVIOUS relation to human mental
(particularly class) structure, that it became the most
commonly know decoration in amulets, jewlery, paintins and
decoration, particularly in religious decoration, that it is
second only to the CROSS (Ankh) in frequency of appearance
in ancient Egypt.

Now lets be fair Bernie (for a change).... try to
remember how uninitiated you are in basic psychology and
religion.... I mean you're the guy woh actually asked me
"why was a fish the original symbol of Christianity".....
why for chrissakes Bernie such a question would cause an
outbreak of laughter in professional psychological or
theological circles!

But the bottom line is this.... it was COMMON KNOWLEGE
among the ancient Egyptian priesthood (which was larger than
the Vatican is today)... that the "invisible world" COULD BE
GLIMPSED and that the true identiy, and even intended
identity of other people could be VISUALLY DETECTED by the
trained and educated eye..... and this "trancendental visual
phenomenon" if you will was ABSOLUTELY... IRREFUTABLY EVEN..
symbolized by the Djed-Pillar..... and hence this is why it
IS THE WORLDS FIRST FORMAL SYMBOL OF THE TRINITY.

Beyond that of course is the fact that it was a water-level
detector... which immediately connects it to the unconscious
mind... since WATER is the universal metaphor for the
unconscious mind (remenmber Jesus could 'walk on water').

In point of fact.... I think the DJED was a "pure symbol"
whose form was probably abstracted from a number of similar
looking objects.... sheafs of bundled hay... water level
indicators... perhaps even oil soaked torches used for night
lighting..... HOWEVER.... eventually the PURE GEOMETRY (the
Venetian blind geometry) is what became the ETERNAL ICONIC
SYMBOL OF THE TRINITY.
Don't go away mad Bernie... and excuse my tantrums... you
know you are capable of pissing me off... and I know you
like to tease me... so lighten up.... we're onto something
here and we have to get to the bottom of it.
========================================
GEORGE HAMMOND'S PROOF OF GOD WEBSITE
Primary site
http://webspace.webring.com/people/eg/george_hammond
Mirror site
http://proof-of-god.freewebsitehosting.com
HAMMOND FOLK SONG by Casey Bennetto
http://interrobang.jwgh.org/songs/hammond.mp3
=======================================
George Hammond
2010-08-01 05:47:10 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Sun, 01 Aug 2010 00:45:03 -0400, George Hammond
Post by George Hammond
On Sat, 31 Jul 2010 16:33:16 -0400, George Hammond
Post by George Hammond
On Sat, 31 Jul 2010 09:46:38 +0200, Bernhard Schornak
[Hammond]
P.S.----
[Hammond]
PPS:

Bernie.... try to keep in mind that the REASON that I am
so intently scrutinizing ancient Egypian Theology is because
I am currently investigating yhr theory of "Life After
Death" which as you know isw a canon of the Christian
religion. OK-- it turns out that the EGYTIANS are the ones
who either invented or discovered the theory FIRST..!! So
the first thing I have to do is go back to the source of the
theory and find out who first advanced it and what kind of
people they were, what they knew, how intelligent they were,
etc. etc. And it was in the process of that investigation
that I first recognized that the Djed_Pillar was the iconic
symbol of the Trinity (more accurately, the symbol of God or
the invisible world).
So..... the discovery that the Egyptians knew about the
invisible world, and trancendental perception (i.e. the holy
spirit) to the point of constructing a central iconic symbol
of it which lasted for 3,000 years.... is a very good
indicator of what they actually knew, and what was common
knowlege about Psychology and Theology at that time.
For chrissakes Bernie, I have even gone to the lengths of
intntly readeing the faces of 3,500 year old mummies, such
as Seti-I, shown here whose face is almost perfectly
prerserved and who only died at the age of 40 in the prime
of life.... there is a LOT to be read in thuis face
psychologically speaking.... you can read his personality...
you can gauge his intelligence.... you can read his
attitude.. youi can detedt what he is afraid of... what he
feels guilty or uncomfortable about.... you can actually do
a complete psychological profile on this guy 3,500 years
after he died:

http://tinyurl.com/2b222my

Looking at this face (1889 original photo) I make the
following psychological observations:

1. His IQ was around 140
2. He enjoyed near "moviestar" status
personality wise and was very popular
and well liked.
3. He was extremely even tempered and
did not have a mean streak... and was
even considered kind.
4. He was a psychologically aware person
sympathetic and understanding of
religious principles.
5. Even a faint glimmer of a smile can be detected
6. His judgement in social matters was obviously
as sophisticated and reliable as any modern US
president... say Barak Obama.


Therefore it is my conclusion from looking at him up
close and personal as it were... that the egyptian people
were not fools... in fact they were quite sophisticated...
on a par with mdern Americans even.... and if they were the
ones who dreamed up the theory of Life After Death.....
there is probably more to it scientifically speaking than we
presently realize.
========================================
GEORGE HAMMOND'S PROOF OF GOD WEBSITE
Primary site
http://webspace.webring.com/people/eg/george_hammond
Mirror site
http://proof-of-god.freewebsitehosting.com
HAMMOND FOLK SONG by Casey Bennetto
http://interrobang.jwgh.org/songs/hammond.mp3
=======================================
Bernhard Schornak
2010-08-02 07:49:17 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by George Hammond
Post by George Hammond
[Hammond]
P.S.----
[Hammond]
Bernie.... try to keep in mind that the REASON that I am
so intently scrutinizing ancient Egypian Theology is because
I am currently investigating yhr theory of "Life After
Death" which as you know isw a canon of the Christian
religion. OK-- it turns out that the EGYTIANS are the ones
who either invented or discovered the theory FIRST..!! So
the first thing I have to do is go back to the source of the
theory and find out who first advanced it and what kind of
people they were, what they knew, how intelligent they were,
etc. etc. And it was in the process of that investigation
that I first recognized that the Djed_Pillar was the iconic
symbol of the Trinity (more accurately, the symbol of God or
the invisible world).
Life after death was part of Egyptian religion from
its very beginning. The expensive tombs and many of
the famous buildings were part of a preparation for
an eternal life near to Gods and Godesses. Does not
mean they concentrated their entire life to a point
after death, they were very worldly people enjoying
their life on Earth.

=> Ka (spirit, soul)
Post by George Hammond
So..... the discovery that the Egyptians knew about the
invisible world, and trancendental perception (i.e. the holy
spirit) to the point of constructing a central iconic symbol
of it which lasted for 3,000 years.... is a very good
indicator of what they actually knew, and what was common
knowlege about Psychology and Theology at that time.
There surely was much of theology with their masses
of Gods an Godesses (each larger town had own gods,
as well), but definitely no psychology. It's a very
young science which came up in the beginning of the
19th century. Before that, few parts of it belonged
to philosophy, some to biology, others to theology.
Post by George Hammond
For chrissakes Bernie, I have even gone to the lengths of
intntly readeing the faces of 3,500 year old mummies, such
as Seti-I, shown here whose face is almost perfectly
prerserved and who only died at the age of 40 in the prime
of life.... there is a LOT to be read in thuis face
psychologically speaking.... you can read his personality...
you can gauge his intelligence.... you can read his
attitude.. youi can detedt what he is afraid of... what he
feels guilty or uncomfortable about.... you can actually do
a complete psychological profile on this guy 3,500 years
http://tinyurl.com/2b222my
Looking at this face (1889 original photo) I make the
1. His IQ was around 140
2. He enjoyed near "moviestar" status
personality wise and was very popular
and well liked.
3. He was extremely even tempered and
did not have a mean streak... and was
even considered kind.
4. He was a psychologically aware person
sympathetic and understanding of
religious principles.
5. Even a faint glimmer of a smile can be detected
6. His judgement in social matters was obviously
as sophisticated and reliable as any modern US
president... say Barak Obama.
Therefore it is my conclusion from looking at him up
close and personal as it were... that the egyptian people
were not fools... in fact they were quite sophisticated...
on a par with mdern Americans even.... and if they were the
ones who dreamed up the theory of Life After Death.....
there is probably more to it scientifically speaking than we
presently realize.
You picked up a king who left many documents. It is
worth to read the Book of the Dead

http://www.touregypt.net/bkofdead.htm

to get in touch with beliefs and myths of his time.


Greetings from Augsburg

Bernhard Schornak
George Hammond
2010-08-03 04:48:11 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Mon, 02 Aug 2010 09:49:17 +0200, Bernhard Schornak
Post by George Hammond
Post by George Hammond
[Hammond]
P.S.----
[Hammond]
Bernie.... try to keep in mind that the REASON that I am
so intently scrutinizing ancient Egypian Theology is because
I am currently investigating yhr theory of "Life After
Death" .......<SNIP>
[Schornak]
Life after death was part of Egyptian religion from
its very beginning. ........<SNIP>
=> Ka (spirit, soul)
<LARGE SNIP>
[Schornak]
. It is worth to read the Book of the Dead
http://www.touregypt.net/bkofdead.htm
to get in touch with beliefs and myths of his time.
[Hammond]
Who do you think you're kidding? I've been studying the
Egyptian Book of the Dead for 30 years.
I hope you answer my post containing a "proof" that YOU
ARE WRONG and that the Egyptians clearly discovered the
Trinity and formulated it in the BA-KA-AKH. So you're
statement that the Egyptians didn't have a Trinity is proven
false.
I'm talking about my post of yesterday with the
Message-ID:
<***@4ax.com>

After you answer that post and we get that point cleared
up... maybe we can discuss how and why the Egyptians
discovered the theory of Life After Death and what that
means regarding the truth of it.
========================================
GEORGE HAMMOND'S PROOF OF GOD WEBSITE
Primary site
http://webspace.webring.com/people/eg/george_hammond
Mirror site
http://proof-of-god.freewebsitehosting.com
HAMMOND FOLK SONG by Casey Bennetto
http://interrobang.jwgh.org/songs/hammond.mp3
=======================================
Darwin123
2010-08-05 21:07:43 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by George Hammond
On Mon, 02 Aug 2010 09:49:17 +0200, Bernhard Schornak
Post by George Hammond
Post by George Hammond
[Hammond]
P.S.----
[Hammond]
   Who do you think you're kidding?  I've been studying the
Egyptian Book of the Dead for 30 years.
   I hope you answer my post containing a "proof" that YOU
ARE WRONG and that the Egyptians clearly discovered the
Trinity and formulated it in the BA-KA-AKH.  So you're
statement that the Egyptians didn't have a Trinity is proven
false.
I think there is a well known "Trinity" in Egyptian mythology, at
least in the Late Kingdom. Osirus, Isis and Horus are the Trinity of
the Egyptians. Whether they actually corresponded to the Christian
Trinity is a matter of conjecture.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myth_of_Osiris_and_Isis
Myth of Osiris and Isis
Bernhard Schornak
2010-08-02 08:24:22 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by George Hammond
[Hammond]
P.S.----
On the subject of the Trinity, the fact that you are
unaware of is that the Trinity is a SCIENTIFIC OBJECT caused
by a scentific fact. Basically, the body has a genotypic
blueprint for a perfect physical body and it proceeds to
produce that body (the phenotype) using a feedback loop
where the output is supposed to equal the input.
Unfortunately the output never equals the input... no one
turns out to be fully grown, which causes part of the mind
to be "unconscious" (i.e. ungrown), so mentally speaking we
http://webspace.webring.com/people/eg/george_hammond/TrinityFAQ.html
Okay, I get back to that later. I just have no
time left at the moment because I am busy with
a lot of other things right now. It's not for-
gotten, just delayed.
Post by George Hammond
This fact exists irregardless of the existence of any
religion, however history shows that after a long enough
time any religion will discover it. Christianity discovered
it in 325 AD, the Egyptians discovered it at least by the
first dynasty since we find Djed Pillars in 1st Dynasty
graves.
While the 4th century Christians identified the Trinity
THEORETICALLY and had a clear idea of the 3 parts of the
INPUT = FATHER (fully grown body)
OUTPUT=SON (actually grown body)
FEEDBACK=HOLY GHOST (the unconscious ungrown mind)
The egyptians identified the Trinity DIRECTLY, that is by
direct empirical observation of human mental function... IOW
they could SEE how well another person could comprehend
reality and thereby EMPIRICALLY judge the size of his
unconscious mind relativie to his conscious mind. They
REPRESENTED this PSYCHOLOGICAL PHENOMENON as a verticle
______
| |
===========
| | ( FATHER)
===========
| | (SON)
===========
| | ( HOLY GHOST)
===========
| |
| |
| |
| |
| |
| |
| |
/ \
------------
known as the DJED, or in modern terms, the Trinity.
Well, I will think about that - doesn't really
convince me at a first glance.
Post by George Hammond
So DRAMATIC, instantanous and memorable is the
psycho-perceptual visual impact of this "Venetian blind"
type structure and its OBVIOUS relation to human mental
(particularly class) structure, that it became the most
commonly know decoration in amulets, jewlery, paintins and
decoration, particularly in religious decoration, that it is
second only to the CROSS (Ankh) in frequency of appearance
in ancient Egypt.
Now lets be fair Bernie (for a change).... try to
remember how uninitiated you are in basic psychology and
religion.... I mean you're the guy woh actually asked me
"why was a fish the original symbol of Christianity".....
why for chrissakes Bernie such a question would cause an
outbreak of laughter in professional psychological or
theological circles!
I didn't ask anything about fish, I remembered
you that early christians used a fish as their
symbol, not a cross.
Post by George Hammond
But the bottom line is this.... it was COMMON KNOWLEGE
among the ancient Egyptian priesthood (which was larger than
the Vatican is today)... that the "invisible world" COULD BE
GLIMPSED and that the true identiy, and even intended
identity of other people could be VISUALLY DETECTED by the
trained and educated eye..... and this "trancendental visual
phenomenon" if you will was ABSOLUTELY... IRREFUTABLY EVEN..
symbolized by the Djed-Pillar..... and hence this is why it
IS THE WORLDS FIRST FORMAL SYMBOL OF THE TRINITY.
Reminds me of Erich von Daeniken, who tries to
interprete everything he sees as influenced by
alien astronauts.

Assumed, ancient priests did design the pillar
with four capitals, but really ment the spaces
between the capitals (this assumption never is
accepted by egyptologists) - how could they've
known of something like the trinity, which was
invented more than 4,200 years after the first
known Djed pillar? How could a priest who knew
at least 50 Gods and Godesses by heart know of
a "threefold entity" which came up about 4,200
years after him? Why should he create a symbol
of three foreign Gods "containing" each other?
Such kind of a God was not in their mythology,
and it had destroyed the entire belief system,
good enough to survive for about 4,300 years -
the last Egyptian temple was closed in the 6th
century CE by christian authorities...

Remember what happened after Echnaton tried to
establish the first monotheistic religion: His
statues and buildings were destroyed, his name
was removed from all places and he was a "per-
sona non grata" for all dynasties after him.
Post by George Hammond
Beyond that of course is the fact that it was a water-level
detector... which immediately connects it to the unconscious
mind... since WATER is the universal metaphor for the
unconscious mind (remenmber Jesus could 'walk on water').
Get over it - Djed pillars, like pylons, never
were used as water-level detectors. There were
much better instruments for that. Stairs don't
require a boat to get a precise reading of the
instrument, while pillars have to be placed in
the water, so you either had to swim or to use
a boat. Ancient records were precise up to one
djeba (1.85 centimeters).
Post by George Hammond
In point of fact.... I think the DJED was a "pure symbol"
whose form was probably abstracted from a number of similar
looking objects.... sheafs of bundled hay... water level
indicators... perhaps even oil soaked torches used for night
lighting..... HOWEVER.... eventually the PURE GEOMETRY (the
Venetian blind geometry) is what became the ETERNAL ICONIC
SYMBOL OF THE TRINITY.
Don't go away mad Bernie... and excuse my tantrums... you
know you are capable of pissing me off... and I know you
like to tease me... so lighten up.... we're onto something
here and we have to get to the bottom of it.
There are surely more bottoms - one of them is
the proof that Judaism is just a modified copy
of Echnaton's Aton cult. Sigmund Freud wrote a
book "the man Moses and monotheistic religion"
about this topic...


Greetings from Augsburg

Bernhard Schornak
George Hammond
2010-08-02 21:54:16 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Mon, 02 Aug 2010 10:24:22 +0200, Bernhard Schornak
Post by George Hammond
[Hammond]
P.S.----
On the subject of the Trinity, the fact that you are
unaware of is that the Trinity is a SCIENTIFIC OBJECT caused
by a scentific fact. Basically, the body has a genotypic
blueprint for a perfect physical body and it proceeds to
produce that body (the phenotype) using a feedback loop
where the output is supposed to equal the input.
Unfortunately the output never equals the input... no one
turns out to be fully grown, which causes part of the mind
to be "unconscious" (i.e. ungrown), so mentally speaking we
http://webspace.webring.com/people/eg/george_hammond/TrinityFAQ.html
[Schornak]
Okay, I get back to that later. I just have no
time left at the moment because I am busy with
a lot of other things right now. It's not for-
gotten, just delayed.
[Hammond]
Okay Bernie, let's get right to the point. You have said
elsewhere that:

==Schornak says======
There was no Trinity
in the Egyptian religion.
================

I AM GOING TO PROVE THAT SCHORNAK IS WRONG!

and the proof that you are wrong lies in this fact:

The Egyptians posited the existence of 3 fundamental
FUNCTIONAL UNITS of the human mind:

1. the AKH
2. the KA
3. the BA

==Hammond says==========
I will show that the (AKH-KA-BA)
is identical to the Christian Trinity
of (FATER-SON-HOLY GHOST)
=====================

Firstly, the Akh, Ka, Ba, were NOT GODS.... they were
entirely distinct from the Egyptian pantheon. They were
described as the 3 primary FUNCTIONAL componentas of the
human mind:

1. See the AKH at:
Loading Image...
(note: From the Egyptian Book of the Dead, papyrus of
Ani. Here Ani is seen worshipping the AKH which is
represented as the Crested Ibis)
The AKH was described as the perfected version of the
human body/mind. Achieving this state was the goal of
life. Therefore the AKH represents the first person
of the Trinity, the Father. As you know the
hieroglyphic symbol for the Akh was the crested Ibis.
Because the AKH represents the spiritually perfect
body, this is the representation of the first person of
the Trinity, God the father, who in Christianity is in
fact the spiritually perfect being. See


2. See the KA at:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ka_statue
The KA was symbolized by a pair of uplifted arms and was
supposed to represent the physical body in this world
as opposed to the AKH which represents the spiritual
body in heaven. Therefore it KA represents the second
person of the Trinity, the "Son" in the Christian
Trinity.

3. see the BA at:
Loading Image...
The BA which was represented by a bird with a human
head it is universally agreed among all scholars is
the Egyptian representation of the "soul" or the "Holy
Spirit", and therefore this is the third person of the
Trinity, the Holy Ghost.

Thus we have overwhelmingly demonstrated that there was a
Trinity and the Egyptian religion and it proves to be
identical to the trinity of Christianity:

AKH = FATHER
KA = SON
BA = HOLY GHOST

So please Bernie, stop making reckless and amateurish claims
such as "there was no Trinity in the Egyptian religion". You
simply don't know what you're talking about.

Now as far as the Djed pillar being a "mechanico-visual"
iconic symbol of the Trinity.... you can go on and debate
that because only one who is highly initiated and expert in
this study (such as me) would know why it is.
But whatever you do, don't go around reciting a stupid
statement such as "there was no Trinity in the Egyptian
religion" because obviously you you are easily proven wrong.
========================================
GEORGE HAMMOND'S PROOF OF GOD WEBSITE
Primary site
http://webspace.webring.com/people/eg/george_hammond
Mirror site
http://proof-of-god.freewebsitehosting.com
HAMMOND FOLK SONG by Casey Bennetto
http://interrobang.jwgh.org/songs/hammond.mp3
=======================================
Geopelia
2010-08-01 12:31:58 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by George Hammond
On Sat, 31 Jul 2010 09:46:38 +0200, Bernhard Schornak
<Snip>
[Geopelia]
May this ignorant person add a bit? I'll have to snip some for length.
Post by George Hammond
Post by Bernhard Schornak
Post by George Hammond
[Hammond]
Allen, like Gardiner is not a scientist (e.g. physicist)
nor is he a psychologist or a theologian. You can't expect
a line professional linguist or literature expert or an
"Egyoptologist" to tell you anything new or scientific about
the Egyotian religion.
Actually, I doubt that physicists are interested in
ancient Egypt mythology at all. Metaphysics, as the
name suggests, are outside the scope of physicists.
[Hammond]
that's simply more "Shornak misinformation" something
you're famous for. The fact is the great physicist Thomas
Young was one of the first to decipher the Egyptian
alphabet. Beyond that, Isaac Newton history's most famous
physicist left 5 million written words on the subject of God
and religion. So once again it is clear that you don't know
what you're talking about.
Post by Bernhard Schornak
Post by George Hammond
Most "Egyptologists" of the past century have been museum
curators for chrissakes... including Budge. Fact is, a
PHYSICIST (Thomas Young of two slit fame) made the first
breakthrouh in decipering Heiroglyphics. Champollian built
on Young's work.
Akerblad deciphered parts of the Rosetta Stone *12*
years before Young. Young improved Akerblad's work,
but Champollion was the one who came up with a com-
plete translation.
[Hammond]
That's an accurate statement, but is also a statement
that appears in every textbook on the subject and is well
known to everyone. Posting common knowledge for the sake
of hearing yourself talk is an annoying habit if not
deliberate harassment.
[Geopelia]
How common is 'common knowledge'? I often surprised to find how little is
'common' at all.
This has been cross posted to places where some people wouldn't know much
about the Rosetta Stone.
Post by George Hammond
<snip>
Post by Bernhard Schornak
Post by George Hammond
In fact here is a picture of a modern Djed pillar from an
http://www.lonebiker.dk/Ausbilleder/6.jpg
The highest level shown is 27 meters.
If this isn't a modern day Djed-pillar I'll eat my hat!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nilometer
Does not look like a Djed pillar...
[Hammond]
Another blatant misstatement of fact. Many Djed pillars
made in stone and fired clay were FLAT and looked
EXACTLY like this picture. Quit lying!
<Snip>
Post by Bernhard Schornak
Post by George Hammond
Post by Bernhard Schornak
The kings were an
incarnation of their gods, no one had a right
to question them or measure them against any-
thing.
[Hammond]
You got it backwards... everybody else was measured
relative to the king...not only every lenght was meqasured
relative to the kings foot... everbodies MENTAL
ENLIGHTENMENT was measured relative to his which is WHY he
was responsible for "raising the pillar".
[Geopelia]
The yard, foot and inch, and the old ell, were often supposed to be
measurements of the Saxon King Alfred.
Big chaps, the Saxons!
Post by George Hammond
Post by Bernhard Schornak
See above. No one was measured against the king, as
no one was measured against the gods and godesses -
you cannot measure mortals against over-beings. The
kings were incarnations of the gods...
[Geopelia]
Pharaoh was thought to be a god, and Roman Emperors became gods after their
deaths.
Britain's Monarch is still the Lord's Anointed, from the anointing ceremony
at the Coronation.
(Edward VIII wasn't, he abdicated before his coronation).
Post by George Hammond
[Hammond]
Your statement is not only blatantly stupid, wrong and
impudent, it obviously defies common opinion.
Everyone is always measured against the best in any field.
If the best is given a score of 100, everyone else gets a
score between one and 100.
Absolute perfection, is the perfect score, and we are all
rated on that scale.
Your habit of arguing for arguments sake is rude, ugly
and universally recognized as a common form of harassment,
in the end you're just a heckler.
Post by Bernhard Schornak
Post by George Hammond
Post by Bernhard Schornak
BTW: There also were Djed pillars with five
http://www.aegyptologie.com/forum/attachments/DjedCnv0439.jpg
[Hammond]
Yes, obviously... and thanks for that picture. The
actual nileometers probably were telephone pole sized with
10 or more crossbars, since the Nile rose as much as 25 feet
some years. the Djed Symbol is only a stylized iconic
representation of the real thing... it caputres the
"visuo-psychological impact" of the thing.
Only in the Southernmost parts of Egypt. In Memphis
(Mn-nfr, Hwt-k3-pth) it was just 2 meters. I think,
your are a little bit besides the real thing.
[Hammond]
Look, that picture of SETI the first raising the Djed
pillar in the temple at Abdyos shows the Djed pillar to be
just exactly about 2 m tall. In the early days there
must've been one of these things in every field, every
canal, and every reservoir allowing an instant
assessment of the current water level at a single glance
telling them whether to open the sluice gates and let
more water into the field or not.
Post by Bernhard Schornak
There was no real need for nilometers between 3,000
and 100 BCE, because the level of the mediterranean
sea did not change in that time. After 100 BCE, the
level constantly increased, causing some minor pro-
blems with tidal floodings of lower regions.
[Geopelia]
What has the level of the Mediterranean got to do with the inundation?
That came from rainfall round the source of the Nile.
Post by George Hammond
[Hammond]
You don't know what you're talking about. It was of
critical importance during all eras to know how fast and how
high or how low the Nile was rising. The Nile roses much as
25 feet in some places.
[Geopelia]
The rise of the Nile was due to rainfall in the highlands where the Nile
rose. There were two sources, the White and Blue Nile.
In years of low rainfall, the inundation would not be sufficient to flood
the fields and spread the fertile silt.
Without the Nile, Egypt would have been like the Sahara.

And what is happening to the inundation now there is a large dam on the
Nile?

(snipped the crucifixion)
Post by George Hammond
Post by Bernhard Schornak
Post by George Hammond
Post by Bernhard Schornak
Probably you forget that the christian symbol
was the<fish>
[Hammond]
Fish, snakes and birds are ephemeral symbols of
psychological syndromes. The snake and the bird being
perhaps foremost. This is why the Phaorh wore a Snake and a
Bird on his forehead 16 hours a day.... half the population
was as scared as sparrows of bullys and the other half had
some form of god awful contageous disease and felt like
untouchables... therefore the Pharoah wore a snake and a
bird on his forehead to let you KNOW that he KNEW what you
were afraid of and that HE understood it and therefore that
it was safe to talk to him.
[Geopelia]
Weren't the cobra and the vulture just symbols of Upper and Lower Egypt,
like the two crowns combined?
Post by George Hammond
Post by Bernhard Schornak
Where is the connection between the christian fish-
symbol (which meant something like free as a fish!)
and the Jaret Snake or the Nechbet Veil?
[Hammond]
For Christ sakes Bernie, how old are you? A "fish",
that is the smell of a fish, is the world's oldest reference
the penalty attendant on female lack of chastity. What
the hell do you think a "mermaid" is supposed to represent?
You don't know nothing of Bernie, you know nothing about
life! You do realize that the entire Bible is one
long sermon on chastity.... don't you? The fish is the
symbol of female unchastity, and the snake is the symbol of
male unchastity. You're so stupid it's embarrassing , dummy
up for Christ sakes!
[Geopelia]
That may be true in some cultures, but is it true of Egypt?
Fish reproduction has nothing to do with mammal unchastity.
The female spawns the eggs and the male fertilizes them outside her body.
I'm not so sure about the snake. Look at the anatomy of the male python!

The fish symbol is said to have been used because the letters Ichthus (fish)
represent "Jesus Christ, Son of God, Saviour".

The mermaid legend may have arisen because some unfortunate babies are born
or miscarried
with sirenomelia, where the legs are fused together and resemble a fish's
tail.

Legends of human and pinniped mating are quite common. 'Seal wives' were
well known. A seal would take human form and marry a human, but would find
her sealskin where it had been hidden,
and return to the sea.
The Merovingian kings were supposed to descend from a human queen and "a
beast of Neptune resembling a quinotaur", whatever that was (bull-fish?),
which raped her as she was swimming.
A walrus?

( An elephant seal here in New Zealand used to leave the beach and
apparently fancied a herd of cows! Perhaps a cow lying down could resemble a
female elephant seal, to a creature that had never seen a cow before.
He became quite a nuisance).
Post by George Hammond
<Snip>
Post by Bernhard Schornak
Post by George Hammond
Post by Bernhard Schornak
No trinity comparable to the christian belief
system existed in Egyptian mythology.
[Hammond]
You have absolutely a ludicrous lack of any qualification
whatsoever to make such a statement and that fact has been
more than adequately documented.
[Geopelia]
Nor have I, but how about Isis, Osiris and the infant Horus, for a trinity?

And where does the Cross of Lorraine fit in?
We became familiar with that in World War Two, as it was the symbol chosen
by the Free French.
Could the double cross bar have something to do with the Djed pillar?
Post by George Hammond
Post by Bernhard Schornak
Post by George Hammond
Post by Bernhard Schornak
Egypt's gods and godesses were merged in some
thousand years, assigning powers of the basic
entities to the new one, but one of both dis-
appeared in this process.
[Hammond]
Are you kidding.. the Egyptian Pantheon was more
sophisticated than the Greco-Roman Pantheon and predates the
modern Pantheon of "Mickey Mouse, donald Duck, Bugs Bunny
and Porky Pig" by 4,000 years! You don't know what you're
talking about.
What has your reply to do with the sentences above?
[Hammond]
The point is, since it is obviously over your head, that
the origin of the gods, the number of the gods, and the
character of the gods, is NOT ARBITRARY. The gods
since they originate in an axiomatic law of physics, are
identical in every age in every society and in every
religion, so therefore, YOUR explanation of the gods
is nothing but a pile of outdated rubbish.
Post by Bernhard Schornak
Where's the connection between cartoons and ancient
entities like Osiris or Nechet? You surely know the
Greek and Roman pantheons included several Egyptian
entities. The basis of the Egyptian patheon already
existed in 3,700 BCE, hence it should be 5,700, not
4,000 years...
[Hammond]
What you're trying to play dumb now? The Egyptian
Pantheon consisted of animal headed anthropomorphic
deities. What the hell do you think Mickey Mouse,
Donald Duck, and Porky pig are, if they are not animal
headed anthropomorphic "god's".
[Geopelia]
After several thousand years, that is possibly what our descendants may
think!
(There is a mouse god, Apollo smintheus, who is also the god of plague. But
I don't think he is mouse-headed.)
Post by George Hammond
<Snip>
Post by Bernhard Schornak
Post by George Hammond
[Hammond]
Baloney, Christianiy didn't discover the Trinity until
500 years after Jesus was dead for chrissakes.
[Geopelia]

The Holy Spirit descends upon the Apostles in Acts. And didn't it descend as
a dove at Christ's baptism by John the Baptist?
Did it really take the Church 500 years to include it with the Father and
the Son?
There was much debate in the early days over whether the Father and the Son
were of one substance, too.
Post by George Hammond
Post by Bernhard Schornak
The "trinity" was declared as a dogma 325 CE at the
1st council of Nicaea.
[Hammond]
okay, 325 years after Jesus was dead.
Post by Bernhard Schornak
There's no such thing in any
other religion on this planet.
[Hammond]
Thats where you are full of shit Bernie. It turns out
that the ancient Egyptian religion, is the one other major
religion in the history of the world that contains an
explicit representation of the Trinity, and that is the Djed
pillar. Fact is, the Egyptians discovered it long before
the Christians.
Trying to explain that to you, is of course useless,
you're not even qualified to read my published proof
of the scientific origin of the Cross!
Post by Bernhard Schornak
Post by George Hammond
The Egyptians knew about it and it was a central symbol
of Egyptian religion for thousands of years before
Christianity.
Please prove this claim. It is not backed up by any
facts.
Hammond[]
it is backed up by my publication in the peer-reviewed
literature of the discovery of the structural model of
personality and the discovery of the world's first
scientific proof of God. Since you are qualified
to comprehend neither one of those theories, you are simply
not qualified to understand the proof. End of discussion.
You're not even qualified to read Einstein's theory,
therefore you're not qualified to comprehend the proof that
gravity is a curvature. Just because YOU are not qualified
to understand something does NOT mean it is not true .
<snip rest of tedious amateur commentary>
[Geopelia]
I've tried to snip for length. I hope I've left enough to make sense.

Ignorance may not be bliss, but it's often fun!
George Hammond
2010-08-01 19:13:59 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Mon, 2 Aug 2010 00:31:58 +1200, "Geopelia"
Post by Geopelia
[Geopelia]
How common is 'common knowledge'? I often surprised to find how little is
'common' at all.
This has been cross posted to places where some people wouldn't know much
about the Rosetta Stone.
[Hammond]
I would define common knowlege as anything that appears in
widely circulated books. Anything that can be found in a
Google search for instance can be considered "common
knowlege".
Perhaps it is easier to define what is NOT common
knowlege.... and that would be anything that has never been
published.
Post by Geopelia
<snip>
Post by Bernhard Schornak
Post by George Hammond
[Hammond]
You got it backwards... everybody else was measured
relative to the king...not only every lenght was meqasured
relative to the kings foot... everbodies MENTAL
ENLIGHTENMENT was measured relative to his which is WHY he
was responsible for "raising the pillar".
[Geopelia]
The yard, foot and inch, and the old ell, were often supposed to be
measurements of the Saxon King Alfred.
Big chaps, the Saxons!
[Hammond]
I just measured my foot with a tape measure and it
measures 11 1/2 inches. Therefore it is entirely believable
to me that the standard foot of 12 inches was actually the
length of the Kings foot.
Post by Geopelia
Post by Bernhard Schornak
See above. No one was measured against the king, as
no one was measured against the gods and godesses -
you cannot measure mortals against over-beings. The
kings were incarnations of the gods...
[Geopelia]
Pharaoh was thought to be a god, and Roman Emperors became gods after their
deaths.
Britain's Monarch is still the Lord's Anointed, from the anointing ceremony
at the Coronation.
(Edward VIII wasn't, he abdicated before his coronation).
[Hammond]
well as I've been telling everyone for years and have
actually published in the peer-reviewed literature the fact
that "God" is caused by the secular trend growth curve
deficit.
Therefore, quite obviously, since the king is elected
predominately based on the fact that he has an extremely low
growth curve deficit ( highest growth available)....
naturally, the king is a living example of God in the flesh
or God on earth.
Post by Geopelia
Post by Bernhard Schornak
There was no real need for nilometers between 3,000
and 100 BCE, because the level of the mediterranean
sea did not change in that time. After 100 BCE, the
level constantly increased, causing some minor pro-
blems with tidal floodings of lower regions.
[Geopelia]
What has the level of the Mediterranean got to do with the inundation?
That came from rainfall round the source of the Nile.
[Hammond]
yeah, I didn't get that relationship either. Obviously
the level of the Mediterranean would have nothing to do with
the flooding of the Nile which began 3000 miles away from
the Mediterranean sea!
Post by Geopelia
[Hammond]
You don't know what you're talking about. It was of
critical importance during all eras to know how fast and how
high or how low the Nile was rising. The Nile roses much as
25 feet in some places.
[Geopelia]
The rise of the Nile was due to rainfall in the highlands where the Nile
rose. There were two sources, the White and Blue Nile.
In years of low rainfall, the inundation would not be sufficient to flood
the fields and spread the fertile silt.
Without the Nile, Egypt would have been like the Sahara.
[Hammond]
that is an absolutely true fact. And hence the critical
importance of posting Nileometers at every available spot
near towns, canals, flooded fields etc. in order to warn the
people as to whether the water was rising or falling and how
fast it was rising.
Post by Geopelia
And what is happening to the inundation now there is a large dam on the
Nile?
[Hammond]
apparently the Nile no longer floods since the
construction of the Aswan high dam. Lake Nasser is used as
a buffer reservoir in order to keep the level of the Nile
absolutely constant.
Post by Geopelia
(snipped the crucifixion)
Post by Bernhard Schornak
Post by George Hammond
Post by Bernhard Schornak
Probably you forget that the christian symbol
was the<fish>
[Hammond]
Fish, snakes and birds are ephemeral symbols of
psychological syndromes. The snake and the bird being
perhaps foremost. This is why the Phaorh wore a Snake and a
Bird on his forehead 16 hours a day.... half the population
was as scared as sparrows of bullys and the other half had
some form of god awful contageous disease and felt like
untouchables... therefore the Pharoah wore a snake and a
bird on his forehead to let you KNOW that he KNEW what you
were afraid of and that HE understood it and therefore that
it was safe to talk to him.
[Geopelia]
Weren't the cobra and the vulture just symbols of Upper and Lower Egypt,
like the two crowns combined?
[Hammond]
yes this is technically correct, however common sense
tells you that an age old national icon must be based on
more than mere technicalities. It must have an immediate
satisfactory visual appeal psychologically speaking in order
to become 1000 year old iconic symbol.
Now a snake and a bird represent two very common and two
very different personalities, you might even say that they
represent the two opposite poles of human personality... a
bird is begein and flight is a symbol of freedom and
enjoyment and transcendence, whereas a cobra is a symbol of
extreme and deadly danger and considered a malevolent and
sinister force in nature. So like the crook and a flail
which represent guidance on the one hand and punishment on
the other, the bird and the snake on the pharaohs forehead
represented the fact that he was in control and command of
the full range of human motive and judgment.
Post by Geopelia
Post by Bernhard Schornak
Where is the connection between the christian fish-
symbol (which meant something like free as a fish!)
and the Jaret Snake or the Nechbet Veil?
[Hammond]
For Christ sakes Bernie, how old are you? A "fish",
that is the smell of a fish, is the world's oldest reference
the penalty attendant on female lack of chastity. What
the hell do you think a "mermaid" is supposed to represent?
You don't know nothing of Bernie, you know nothing about
life! You do realize that the entire Bible is one
long sermon on chastity.... don't you? The fish is the
symbol of female unchastity, and the snake is the symbol of
male unchastity. You're so stupid it's embarrassing , dummy
up for Christ sakes!
[Geopelia]
That may be true in some cultures, but is it true of Egypt?
[Hammond]
it's true in any culture that knows what a fish is!
Post by Geopelia
Fish reproduction has nothing to do with mammal unchastity.
The female spawns the eggs and the male fertilizes them outside her body.
I'm not so sure about the snake. Look at the anatomy of the male python!
The fish symbol is said to have been used because the letters Ichthus (fish)
represent "Jesus Christ, Son of God, Saviour".
[Hammond]
Well that's the kind of explanation you give to children
or other socially unaware people. But adults know very well
what the origin of a "mermaid" is, and it doesn't have
anything to do with Jesus Christ, I can assure you of that!
Post by Geopelia
The mermaid legend may have arisen because some unfortunate babies are born
or miscarried
with sirenomelia, where the legs are fused together and resemble a fish's
tail.
Legends of human and pinniped mating are quite common. 'Seal wives' were
well known. A seal would take human form and marry a human, but would find
her sealskin where it had been hidden,
and return to the sea.
The Merovingian kings were supposed to descend from a human queen and "a
beast of Neptune resembling a quinotaur", whatever that was (bull-fish?),
which raped her as she was swimming.
A walrus?
( An elephant seal here in New Zealand used to leave the beach and
apparently fancied a herd of cows! Perhaps a cow lying down could resemble a
female elephant seal, to a creature that had never seen a cow before.
He became quite a nuisance).
[Hammond]
well Geopelia, we may assume that an 80-year-old married
woman and probably a grandmother has not spent much of her
life engaged in promiscuous and reckless behavior and has
therefore never suffered long bouts of gonorrhea, chlamydia,
or half a dozen other infectious venereal diseases, and
therefore would be rather oblivious to the fact that these
scourges are endemic among hundreds of millions of
poverty-stricken and abused women in the Third World...
exactly the kind of women which an organized religion like
Christianity is aimed at and is trying to warn them about
the dangers of promiscuity. To these women, and these men,
the symbol of a fish and a snake has a far greater and more
powerful impact than it does on upstanding and respectable
first world woman such as yourself.... believe me!
Post by Geopelia
<Snip>
Post by Bernhard Schornak
Post by George Hammond
Post by Bernhard Schornak
No trinity comparable to the christian belief
system existed in Egyptian mythology.
[Hammond]
You have absolutely a ludicrous lack of any qualification
whatsoever to make such a statement and that fact has been
more than adequately documented.
[Geopelia]
Nor have I, but how about Isis, Osiris and the infant Horus, for a trinity?
[Hammond]
the cult of Isis and Osiris is a very late development in
Egyptian religion. They were virtually unknown in the old
Kingdom and only appeared in the new Kingdom. The Djed
pillar and the God Horus predate Osiris by at least 1000,
perhaps even 2000 years in Egyptian history...... same as
the Old Testament predates the Jesus cult in western
religion by 1000 years or more.
Post by Geopelia
And where does the Cross of Lorraine fit in?
We became familiar with that in World War Two, as it was the symbol chosen
by the Free French.
Could the double cross bar have something to do with the Djed pillar?
[Hammond]
now the CROSS OF LORRAINE is a very interesting and
relevant subject here. In my opinion, YES, the Cross of
Lorraine is an attempt to combine the Cross and the Trinity
in much the same manner that the Ankh and the Djed pillar
were combined into one icon in many Egyptian motifs. Very
interesting!
Post by Geopelia
[Hammond]
What you're trying to play dumb now? The Egyptian
Pantheon consisted of animal headed anthropomorphic
deities. What the hell do you think Mickey Mouse,
Donald Duck, and Porky pig are, if they are not animal
headed anthropomorphic "god's".
[Geopelia]
After several thousand years, that is possibly what our descendants may
think!
(There is a mouse god, Apollo smintheus, who is also the god of plague. But
I don't think he is mouse-headed.)
[Hammond]
Of course Mickey Mouse is a modern day Egyptian pantheon
type of god! Anybody on the street will tell you that
Mickey Mouse is a symbol of the Jewish race in the modern
cartoon pantheon. Porky pig is perhaps a god representing
the Catholics while Bugs Bunny represents the Protestants!
Hey, we're not here to study kids stuff you know, this is
serious business!
Post by Geopelia
<Snip>
Post by Bernhard Schornak
Post by George Hammond
[Hammond]
Baloney, Christianiy didn't discover the Trinity until
500 years after Jesus was dead for chrissakes.
[Geopelia]
The Holy Spirit descends upon the Apostles in Acts. And didn't it descend as
a dove at Christ's baptism by John the Baptist?
Did it really take the Church 500 years to include it with the Father and
the Son?
There was much debate in the early days over whether the Father and the Son
were of one substance, too.
[Hammond]
apparently the existence of the cross is easier to
discover than the existence of the Trinity. The reason for
this is that the cross represents a real physical structure
( the Cartesian structure of the human body in the brain).
Therefore, while the cross represents a psychological
structure, it is caused by a real cruciform geometry in the
human body. on the other hand, the Trinity is a FUNCTIONAL
structure rather than a physical geometrical structure and
is therefore far more difficult to discern.
Therefore it's quite easy to see that the Ankh is older
than than the Djed for the same reason that the Cross is
older than the Trinity.
Post by Geopelia
Post by Bernhard Schornak
The "trinity" was declared as a dogma 325 CE at the
1st council of Nicaea.
[Geopelia]
I've tried to snip for length. I hope I've left enough to make sense.
Ignorance may not be bliss, but it's often fun!
[Hammond]
well least you don't have to worry about "catching a
fish".... nor do you have to nervously brag about "the one
that got away" (the one you didn't catch).
========================================
GEORGE HAMMOND'S PROOF OF GOD WEBSITE
Primary site
http://webspace.webring.com/people/eg/george_hammond
Mirror site
http://proof-of-god.freewebsitehosting.com
HAMMOND FOLK SONG by Casey Bennetto
http://interrobang.jwgh.org/songs/hammond.mp3
=======================================
Geopelia
2010-08-02 14:29:43 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by George Hammond
On Mon, 2 Aug 2010 00:31:58 +1200, "Geopelia"
Post by Geopelia
[Geopelia]
How common is 'common knowledge'? I often surprised to find how little is
'common' at all.
This has been cross posted to places where some people wouldn't know much
about the Rosetta Stone.
[Hammond]
I would define common knowlege as anything that appears in
widely circulated books. Anything that can be found in a
Google search for instance can be considered "common
knowlege".
Perhaps it is easier to define what is NOT common
knowlege.... and that would be anything that has never been
published.
Post by Geopelia
[Geopelia]
Pharaoh was thought to be a god, and Roman Emperors became gods after their
deaths.
Britain's Monarch is still the Lord's Anointed, from the anointing ceremony
at the Coronation.
(Edward VIII wasn't, he abdicated before his coronation).
[Hammond]
well as I've been telling everyone for years and have
actually published in the peer-reviewed literature the fact
that "God" is caused by the secular trend growth curve
deficit.
Therefore, quite obviously, since the king is elected
predominately based on the fact that he has an extremely low
growth curve deficit ( highest growth available)....
naturally, the king is a living example of God in the flesh
or God on earth.
[Geopelia]

Britain's Monarchy is hereditary. The king is not elected.
Perhaps is earlier times the tallest male may have become king.
Post by George Hammond
Post by Geopelia
And what is happening to the inundation now there is a large dam on the
Nile?
[Hammond]
apparently the Nile no longer floods since the
construction of the Aswan high dam. Lake Nasser is used as
a buffer reservoir in order to keep the level of the Nile
absolutely constant.
Post by Geopelia
(snipped the crucifixion)
Post by George Hammond
Post by Bernhard Schornak
Post by George Hammond
Post by Bernhard Schornak
Probably you forget that the christian symbol
was the<fish>
[Hammond]
Fish, snakes and birds are ephemeral symbols of
psychological syndromes. The snake and the bird being
perhaps foremost. This is why the Phaorh wore a Snake and a
Bird on his forehead 16 hours a day.... half the population
was as scared as sparrows of bullys and the other half had
some form of god awful contageous disease and felt like
untouchables... therefore the Pharoah wore a snake and a
bird on his forehead to let you KNOW that he KNEW what you
were afraid of and that HE understood it and therefore that
it was safe to talk to him.
[Geopelia]
Weren't the cobra and the vulture just symbols of Upper and Lower Egypt,
like the two crowns combined?
[Hammond]
yes this is technically correct, however common sense
tells you that an age old national icon must be based on
more than mere technicalities. It must have an immediate
satisfactory visual appeal psychologically speaking in order
to become 1000 year old iconic symbol.
Now a snake and a bird represent two very common and two
very different personalities, you might even say that they
represent the two opposite poles of human personality... a
bird is begein and flight is a symbol of freedom and
enjoyment and transcendence, whereas a cobra is a symbol of
extreme and deadly danger and considered a malevolent and
sinister force in nature. So like the crook and a flail
which represent guidance on the one hand and punishment on
the other, the bird and the snake on the pharaohs forehead
represented the fact that he was in control and command of
the full range of human motive and judgment.
Post by Geopelia
Post by George Hammond
Post by Bernhard Schornak
Where is the connection between the christian fish-
symbol (which meant something like free as a fish!)
and the Jaret Snake or the Nechbet Veil?
[Hammond]
For Christ sakes Bernie, how old are you? A "fish",
that is the smell of a fish, is the world's oldest reference
the penalty attendant on female lack of chastity. What
the hell do you think a "mermaid" is supposed to represent?
You don't know nothing of Bernie, you know nothing about
life! You do realize that the entire Bible is one
long sermon on chastity.... don't you? The fish is the
symbol of female unchastity, and the snake is the symbol of
male unchastity. You're so stupid it's embarrassing , dummy
up for Christ sakes!
[Geopelia]
That may be true in some cultures, but is it true of Egypt?
[Hammond]
it's true in any culture that knows what a fish is!
Post by Geopelia
Fish reproduction has nothing to do with mammal unchastity.
The female spawns the eggs and the male fertilizes them outside her body.
I'm not so sure about the snake. Look at the anatomy of the male python!
The fish symbol is said to have been used because the letters Ichthus (fish)
represent "Jesus Christ, Son of God, Saviour".
[Hammond]
Well that's the kind of explanation you give to children
or other socially unaware people. But adults know very well
what the origin of a "mermaid" is, and it doesn't have
anything to do with Jesus Christ, I can assure you of that!
Post by Geopelia
The mermaid legend may have arisen because some unfortunate babies are born
or miscarried
with sirenomelia, where the legs are fused together and resemble a fish's
tail.
Legends of human and pinniped mating are quite common. 'Seal wives' were
well known. A seal would take human form and marry a human, but would find
her sealskin where it had been hidden,
and return to the sea.
The Merovingian kings were supposed to descend from a human queen and "a
beast of Neptune resembling a quinotaur", whatever that was (bull-fish?),
which raped her as she was swimming.
A walrus?
( An elephant seal here in New Zealand used to leave the beach and
apparently fancied a herd of cows! Perhaps a cow lying down could resemble a
female elephant seal, to a creature that had never seen a cow before.
He became quite a nuisance).
[Hammond]
well Geopelia, we may assume that an 80-year-old married
woman and probably a grandmother has not spent much of her
life engaged in promiscuous and reckless behavior and has
therefore never suffered long bouts of gonorrhea, chlamydia,
or half a dozen other infectious venereal diseases, and
therefore would be rather oblivious to the fact that these
scourges are endemic among hundreds of millions of
poverty-stricken and abused women in the Third World...
exactly the kind of women which an organized religion like
Christianity is aimed at and is trying to warn them about
the dangers of promiscuity. To these women, and these men,
the symbol of a fish and a snake has a far greater and more
powerful impact than it does on upstanding and respectable
first world woman such as yourself.... believe me!
[Geopelia]

Thank you for those kind words! But I have always been well aware of the
dangers of venereal disease and now HIV.
I never heard of fish and snakes being symbols of promiscuity, though.

The women of the Third World would have little choice in the matter, most
would be expected to marry and their sexual health would be the
responsibility of their husbands.

I have led far from the sheltered life of the traditional "little old lady"
anyway, marrying in my mid thirties (unusual in the days when most girls
married in their late teens or early twenties), and our grandchildren are my
husband's from a previous marriage.
Post by George Hammond
Post by Geopelia
Post by George Hammond
<Snip>
Post by Bernhard Schornak
Post by George Hammond
Post by Bernhard Schornak
No trinity comparable to the christian belief
system existed in Egyptian mythology.
[Hammond]
You have absolutely a ludicrous lack of any qualification
whatsoever to make such a statement and that fact has been
more than adequately documented.
[Geopelia]
Nor have I, but how about Isis, Osiris and the infant Horus, for a trinity?
[Hammond]
the cult of Isis and Osiris is a very late development in
Egyptian religion. They were virtually unknown in the old
Kingdom and only appeared in the new Kingdom. The Djed
pillar and the God Horus predate Osiris by at least 1000,
perhaps even 2000 years in Egyptian history...... same as
the Old Testament predates the Jesus cult in western
religion by 1000 years or more.
Post by Geopelia
And where does the Cross of Lorraine fit in?
We became familiar with that in World War Two, as it was the symbol chosen
by the Free French.
Could the double cross bar have something to do with the Djed pillar?
[Hammond]
now the CROSS OF LORRAINE is a very interesting and
relevant subject here. In my opinion, YES, the Cross of
Lorraine is an attempt to combine the Cross and the Trinity
in much the same manner that the Ankh and the Djed pillar
were combined into one icon in many Egyptian motifs. Very
interesting!
Post by Geopelia
Post by George Hammond
[Hammond]
What you're trying to play dumb now? The Egyptian
Pantheon consisted of animal headed anthropomorphic
deities. What the hell do you think Mickey Mouse,
Donald Duck, and Porky pig are, if they are not animal
headed anthropomorphic "god's".
[Geopelia]
After several thousand years, that is possibly what our descendants may
think!
(There is a mouse god, Apollo smintheus, who is also the god of plague. But
I don't think he is mouse-headed.)
[Hammond]
Of course Mickey Mouse is a modern day Egyptian pantheon
type of god! Anybody on the street will tell you that
Mickey Mouse is a symbol of the Jewish race in the modern
cartoon pantheon. Porky pig is perhaps a god representing
the Catholics while Bugs Bunny represents the Protestants!
Hey, we're not here to study kids stuff you know, this is
serious business!
[Geopelia]
I never heard that about Mickey Mouse. Perhaps it is an American idea.
Nor about Porky pig and Bugs Bunny.
What on earth have cartoon animals got to do with religions?

Perhaps somebody will now try to find some symbolism in Christopher Robin
and his animal friends.
He was a real person, the son of the author A.A.Milne.
Post by George Hammond
Post by Geopelia
[Geopelia]
I've tried to snip for length. I hope I've left enough to make sense.
Ignorance may not be bliss, but it's often fun!
[Hammond]
well least you don't have to worry about "catching a
fish".... nor do you have to nervously brag about "the one
that got away" (the one you didn't catch).
[Geopelia]
No, there's a lot to be said for a monogamous marriage of forty six years!
Bernhard Schornak
2010-08-02 07:24:13 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Geopelia
[Geopelia]
May this ignorant person add a bit? I'll have to snip some for length.
You are welcome! I snipped some more to shrink
the size slightly...
Post by Geopelia
Post by George Hammond
[Hammond]
That's an accurate statement, but is also a statement
that appears in every textbook on the subject and is well
known to everyone. Posting common knowledge for the sake
of hearing yourself talk is an annoying habit if not
deliberate harassment.
[Geopelia]
How common is 'common knowledge'? I often surprised to find how little is
'common' at all.
This has been cross posted to places where some people wouldn't know much
about the Rosetta Stone.
I think, most kids learn this stuff at school.
Either with ancient Egypt or Napoleon's wars.
Post by Geopelia
Post by George Hammond
Post by Bernhard Schornak
Post by George Hammond
Post by Bernhard Schornak
The kings were an
incarnation of their gods, no one had a right
to question them or measure them against any-
thing.
[Hammond]
You got it backwards... everybody else was measured
relative to the king...not only every lenght was meqasured
relative to the kings foot... everbodies MENTAL
ENLIGHTENMENT was measured relative to his which is WHY he
was responsible for "raising the pillar".
[Geopelia]
The yard, foot and inch, and the old ell, were often supposed to be
measurements of the Saxon King Alfred.
Big chaps, the Saxons!
Interestingly, many measures were derived from
ancient Egypt measures:

http://freepages.history.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~rgrosser/amarna/neywetaten/measures.htm
Post by Geopelia
Post by George Hammond
Post by Bernhard Schornak
See above. No one was measured against the king, as
no one was measured against the gods and godesses -
you cannot measure mortals against over-beings. The
kings were incarnations of the gods...
[Geopelia]
Pharaoh was thought to be a god, and Roman Emperors became gods after their
deaths.
Constantine (the Great) was the incarnation of
Sol Invictus, and thus seen as a living god in
the Roman Empire.
Post by Geopelia
Britain's Monarch is still the Lord's Anointed, from the anointing ceremony
at the Coronation.
(Edward VIII wasn't, he abdicated before his coronation).
The coronation ceremony of the catholic church
was introduced with the Carolingian monarchy -
the Merovingian kings denied to be anointed by
the church. They believed their kings were set
into power by god himself, and no mediation of
a church was required. English kings took over
the Merovingian (Frankonian) ceremonies.
Post by Geopelia
Post by George Hammond
Post by Bernhard Schornak
Post by George Hammond
Post by Bernhard Schornak
BTW: There also were Djed pillars with five
http://www.aegyptologie.com/forum/attachments/DjedCnv0439.jpg
[Hammond]
Yes, obviously... and thanks for that picture. The
actual nileometers probably were telephone pole sized with
10 or more crossbars, since the Nile rose as much as 25 feet
some years. the Djed Symbol is only a stylized iconic
representation of the real thing... it caputres the
"visuo-psychological impact" of the thing.
Only in the Southernmost parts of Egypt. In Memphis
(Mn-nfr, Hwt-k3-pth) it was just 2 meters. I think,
your are a little bit besides the real thing.
[Hammond]
Look, that picture of SETI the first raising the Djed
pillar in the temple at Abdyos shows the Djed pillar to be
just exactly about 2 m tall. In the early days there
must've been one of these things in every field, every
canal, and every reservoir allowing an instant
assessment of the current water level at a single glance
telling them whether to open the sluice gates and let
more water into the field or not.
Post by Bernhard Schornak
There was no real need for nilometers between 3,000
and 100 BCE, because the level of the mediterranean
sea did not change in that time. After 100 BCE, the
level constantly increased, causing some minor pro-
blems with tidal floodings of lower regions.
[Geopelia]
What has the level of the Mediterranean got to do with the inundation?
That came from rainfall round the source of the Nile.
Tides of the Mediterranean Sea affect the Nile
directly - ebb de-, flood increases its level.
As Egypt is a flat land, the tidal motions can
be observed as far as to the 1st cataract.
Post by Geopelia
Post by George Hammond
[Hammond]
You don't know what you're talking about. It was of
critical importance during all eras to know how fast and how
high or how low the Nile was rising. The Nile roses much as
25 feet in some places.
[Geopelia]
The rise of the Nile was due to rainfall in the highlands where the Nile
rose. There were two sources, the White and Blue Nile.
In years of low rainfall, the inundation would not be sufficient to flood
the fields and spread the fertile silt.
Without the Nile, Egypt would have been like the Sahara.
And what is happening to the inundation now there is a large dam on the
Nile?
The soil is over-salted, meanwhile - while the
Nile floods carried lots of minerals with them
in ancient times (giving Egypt its name Kemet,
the black land), farmers now have to use arti-
ficial fertilisers. Which, of course, destroys
the soil in the long run - there is not enough
rain to wash the remains of those fertiliser's
away until the next sowing period.
Post by Geopelia
Post by George Hammond
Post by Bernhard Schornak
Post by George Hammond
Post by Bernhard Schornak
Probably you forget that the christian symbol
was the<fish>
[Hammond]
Fish, snakes and birds are ephemeral symbols of
psychological syndromes. The snake and the bird being
perhaps foremost. This is why the Phaorh wore a Snake and a
Bird on his forehead 16 hours a day.... half the population
was as scared as sparrows of bullys and the other half had
some form of god awful contageous disease and felt like
untouchables... therefore the Pharoah wore a snake and a
bird on his forehead to let you KNOW that he KNEW what you
were afraid of and that HE understood it and therefore that
it was safe to talk to him.
[Geopelia]
Weren't the cobra and the vulture just symbols of Upper and Lower Egypt,
like the two crowns combined?
Partially, yes. Iaret, shown as cobra (uraeus)
was worshipped in entire Egypt, while Nechbet,
the vulture, was worshipped in Upper Egypt.
Post by Geopelia
Post by George Hammond
Post by Bernhard Schornak
Where is the connection between the christian fish-
symbol (which meant something like free as a fish!)
and the Jaret Snake or the Nechbet Veil?
[Hammond]
For Christ sakes Bernie, how old are you? A "fish",
that is the smell of a fish, is the world's oldest reference
the penalty attendant on female lack of chastity. What
the hell do you think a "mermaid" is supposed to represent?
You don't know nothing of Bernie, you know nothing about
life! You do realize that the entire Bible is one
long sermon on chastity.... don't you? The fish is the
symbol of female unchastity, and the snake is the symbol of
male unchastity. You're so stupid it's embarrassing , dummy
up for Christ sakes!
[Geopelia]
That may be true in some cultures, but is it true of Egypt?
Fish reproduction has nothing to do with mammal unchastity.
The female spawns the eggs and the male fertilizes them outside her body.
I'm not so sure about the snake. Look at the anatomy of the male python!
The fish symbol is said to have been used because the letters Ichthus (fish)
represent "Jesus Christ, Son of God, Saviour".
This came up a little bit later. Earlier marks
at walls and tombstones show simple icons, the
later sometimes included the Greek word ichtys
(translates to the mentioned meaning).
Post by Geopelia
The mermaid legend may have arisen because some unfortunate babies are born
or miscarried
with sirenomelia, where the legs are fused together and resemble a fish's
tail.
Legends of human and pinniped mating are quite common. 'Seal wives' were
well known. A seal would take human form and marry a human, but would find
her sealskin where it had been hidden,
and return to the sea.
The Merovingian kings were supposed to descend from a human queen and "a
beast of Neptune resembling a quinotaur", whatever that was (bull-fish?),
which raped her as she was swimming.
A walrus?
( An elephant seal here in New Zealand used to leave the beach and
apparently fancied a herd of cows! Perhaps a cow lying down could resemble a
female elephant seal, to a creature that had never seen a cow before.
He became quite a nuisance).
Nice!

Merovingian kings were pagans until Clovis the
1st, so the story of Merowech might be seen in
the context of Frankonian mythology.
Post by Geopelia
Post by George Hammond
Post by Bernhard Schornak
Post by George Hammond
Post by Bernhard Schornak
No trinity comparable to the christian belief
system existed in Egyptian mythology.
[Hammond]
You have absolutely a ludicrous lack of any qualification
whatsoever to make such a statement and that fact has been
more than adequately documented.
[Geopelia]
Nor have I, but how about Isis, Osiris and the infant Horus, for a trinity?
No. All of them were worshipped as single dei-
ties - except their familiar connections, they
were independent from each other.
Post by Geopelia
And where does the Cross of Lorraine fit in?
We became familiar with that in World War Two, as it was the symbol chosen
by the Free French.
Could the double cross bar have something to do with the Djed pillar?
Surely not. The Djed was not commonly known in
European countries. The few who knew it didn't
see any similarity between both symbols, as it
is quite hard to find any (a cross is a cross,
a Djed is a Djed).

The old forms of the Cross of Lorraine had two
equally long arms, one in the upper and one in
the lower third of the vertical pole - in this
form, it definitely can't be mismatched with a
Djed.

Loading Image...
Post by Geopelia
Post by George Hammond
Post by Bernhard Schornak
Post by George Hammond
Post by Bernhard Schornak
Egypt's gods and godesses were merged in some
thousand years, assigning powers of the basic
entities to the new one, but one of both dis-
appeared in this process.
[Hammond]
Are you kidding.. the Egyptian Pantheon was more
sophisticated than the Greco-Roman Pantheon and predates the
modern Pantheon of "Mickey Mouse, donald Duck, Bugs Bunny
and Porky Pig" by 4,000 years! You don't know what you're
talking about.
What has your reply to do with the sentences above?
[Hammond]
The point is, since it is obviously over your head, that
the origin of the gods, the number of the gods, and the
character of the gods, is NOT ARBITRARY. The gods
since they originate in an axiomatic law of physics, are
identical in every age in every society and in every
religion, so therefore, YOUR explanation of the gods
is nothing but a pile of outdated rubbish.
Post by Bernhard Schornak
Where's the connection between cartoons and ancient
entities like Osiris or Nechet? You surely know the
Greek and Roman pantheons included several Egyptian
entities. The basis of the Egyptian patheon already
existed in 3,700 BCE, hence it should be 5,700, not
4,000 years...
[Hammond]
What you're trying to play dumb now? The Egyptian
Pantheon consisted of animal headed anthropomorphic
deities. What the hell do you think Mickey Mouse,
Donald Duck, and Porky pig are, if they are not animal
headed anthropomorphic "god's".
[Geopelia]
After several thousand years, that is possibly what our descendants may
think!
(There is a mouse god, Apollo smintheus, who is also the god of plague. But
I don't think he is mouse-headed.)
Only if all written material is destroyed.
Post by Geopelia
Post by George Hammond
Post by Bernhard Schornak
Post by George Hammond
[Hammond]
Baloney, Christianiy didn't discover the Trinity until
500 years after Jesus was dead for chrissakes.
[Geopelia]
The Holy Spirit descends upon the Apostles in Acts. And didn't it descend as
a dove at Christ's baptism by John the Baptist?
Did it really take the Church 500 years to include it with the Father and
the Son?
There was much debate in the early days over whether the Father and the Son
were of one substance, too.
This was the reason why early christians split
up into two fractions - those who continued to
preach Jesus' teachings and those who invented
a mystical story and upgraded Jesus to another
god. Origines finished the story and added the
"holy spirit". The final creation of a god who
hardly could be topped by any competing deity.


Greetings from Augsburg

Berhard Schornak
Bernhard Schornak
2010-08-02 06:31:39 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by George Hammond
Post by Bernhard Schornak
Post by George Hammond
Post by George Hammond
[Hammond]
Is the Pope a Catholic?
Nope - he's a pope (belonging to a rope...).
[Hammond]
What's that supposed to be a non sequitur?
Just my humble opinion. I hate to live in Bavaria as
long as this unholy virus is not put into a jail. It
might not be known in the USA (where most christians
are not catholic), but every educated European knows
about his historical background as Great Inquisitor.
He also was involved in corporal punishment of a lot
of children being held in catholic "residential" and
"approved" schools in the borders of his diocese.

Not to speak of his "deeds" as pope, kicking the de-
velopments of the last two centuries back to deepest
Middle Ages. Not to speak of his reactonary books or
public statements.

Sorry, but I only have links to German sites. I just
found this one on he fly:

http://www.newint.org/issue327/worldbeaters.htm

Google for "ratzinger+inquisition" and the likes...
Post by George Hammond
<Snip>
Post by Bernhard Schornak
Post by George Hammond
[Hammond]
Allen, like Gardiner is not a scientist (e.g. physicist)
nor is he a psychologist or a theologian. You can't expect
a line professional linguist or literature expert or an
"Egyoptologist" to tell you anything new or scientific about
the Egyotian religion.
Actually, I doubt that physicists are interested in
ancient Egypt mythology at all. Metaphysics, as the
name suggests, are outside the scope of physicists.
[Hammond]
that's simply more "Shornak misinformation" something
you're famous for. The fact is the great physicist Thomas
Young was one of the first to decipher the Egyptian
alphabet. Beyond that, Isaac Newton history's most famous
physicist left 5 million written words on the subject of God
and religion. So once again it is clear that you don't know
what you're talking about.
Which was not part of their work as physicists. If
it had been, no one did care about them today, be-
cause they had been ignored by real physicists for
mismatching disciplines held _separately_ for good
reasons. If you read the wiki with care, you might
recognise that Newton clearly denied the "trinity"
and had much trouble with the order of the jesuits
because of his denial.
Post by George Hammond
Post by Bernhard Schornak
Post by George Hammond
Most "Egyptologists" of the past century have been museum
curators for chrissakes... including Budge. Fact is, a
PHYSICIST (Thomas Young of two slit fame) made the first
breakthrouh in decipering Heiroglyphics. Champollian built
on Young's work.
Akerblad deciphered parts of the Rosetta Stone *12*
years before Young. Young improved Akerblad's work,
but Champollion was the one who came up with a com-
plete translation.
[Hammond]
That's an accurate statement, but is also a statement
that appears in every textbook on the subject and is well
known to everyone. Posting common knowledge for the sake
of hearing yourself talk is an annoying habit if not
deliberate harassment.
Or you just "forgot" to mention that Young neither
began nor finished the work, but just participated
with decipering a few parts of the entire stone?
Post by George Hammond
Post by Bernhard Schornak
Post by George Hammond
In fact here is a picture of a modern Djed pillar from an
http://www.lonebiker.dk/Ausbilleder/6.jpg
The highest level shown is 27 meters.
If this isn't a modern day Djed-pillar I'll eat my hat!
Do you read an entire story out of this JPG image?
As it is a JPG, none of the characters is readable
if you enlarge it to a size where they should. How
did you get that story? Who gives proof that those
markers determine flood heights or anything else?
Post by George Hammond
Post by Bernhard Schornak
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nilometer
Does not look like a Djed pillar...
[Hammond]
Another blatant misstatement of fact. Many Djed pillars
made in stone and fired clay were FLAT and looked
EXACTLY like this picture. Quit lying!
You mismatch amulets with the real thing. It isn't
comfortable to wear a sharp egded square object on
your chest. Hence, amulets were flat and had round
edges.
Post by George Hammond
Post by Bernhard Schornak
Post by George Hammond
Post by George Hammond
The kings were an
incarnation of their gods, no one had a right
to question them or measure them against any-
thing.
[Hammond]
You got it backwards... everybody else was measured
relative to the king...not only every lenght was meqasured
relative to the kings foot... everbodies MENTAL
ENLIGHTENMENT was measured relative to his which is WHY he
was responsible for "raising the pillar".
See above. No one was measured against the king, as
no one was measured against the gods and godesses -
you cannot measure mortals against over-beings. The
kings were incarnations of the gods...
[Hammond]
Your statement is not only blatantly stupid, wrong and
impudent, it obviously defies common opinion.
Everyone is always measured against the best in any field.
If the best is given a score of 100, everyone else gets a
score between one and 100.
Absolute perfection, is the perfect score, and we are all
rated on that scale.
Your habit of arguing for arguments sake is rude, ugly
and universally recognized as a common form of harassment,
in the end you're just a heckler.
What you call herassment is called scientific work
in the real world. I pick up arguments and compare
them against scientifically proven facts. If there
is a difference between proven facts and arguments
claiming to replace those proven facts, it is just
a matter of reason to refute that claim if it does
not match with the known facts nor is a reasonable
addition to them.
Post by George Hammond
Post by Bernhard Schornak
Post by George Hammond
Post by George Hammond
BTW: There also were Djed pillars with five
http://www.aegyptologie.com/forum/attachments/DjedCnv0439.jpg
[Hammond]
Yes, obviously... and thanks for that picture. The
actual nileometers probably were telephone pole sized with
10 or more crossbars, since the Nile rose as much as 25 feet
some years. the Djed Symbol is only a stylized iconic
representation of the real thing... it caputres the
"visuo-psychological impact" of the thing.
Only in the Southernmost parts of Egypt. In Memphis
(Mn-nfr, Hwt-k3-pth) it was just 2 meters. I think,
your are a little bit besides the real thing.
[Hammond]
Look, that picture of SETI the first raising the Djed
pillar in the temple at Abdyos shows the Djed pillar to be
just exactly about 2 m tall.
The dimensions of the ritual pillar had to be that
size. The larger the pillar, the more weight. Your
math skills are impressing, so you surely can cal-
culate the maximum weight a single man (in average
condition) will pull with a rope led over a single
roll.
Post by George Hammond
In the early days there
must've been one of these things in every field, every
canal, and every reservoir allowing an instant
assessment of the current water level at a single glance
telling them whether to open the sluice gates and let
more water into the field or not.
Your opinion contradicts Egyptian writings. If the
Nile flood didn't reach the minimum tax level, the
dikes were not broken, at all, leaving the farmers
without water (see carvings in the White Chapel of
Senusret I.).

Only three Nilometers were used: Elephantine, Per-
Hapi and Sema-Behdet (Tell-el-Balamun), where Per-
Hapi was used to define the annual tax.
Post by George Hammond
Post by Bernhard Schornak
There was no real need for nilometers between 3,000
and 100 BCE, because the level of the mediterranean
sea did not change in that time. After 100 BCE, the
level constantly increased, causing some minor pro-
blems with tidal floodings of lower regions.
[Hammond]
You don't know what you're talking about.
Blame those who wrote that document.
Post by George Hammond
It was of
critical importance during all eras to know how fast and how
high or how low the Nile was rising. The Nile roses much as
25 feet in some places.
The highest level was measured in Elephantine, de-
creasing to about 1/3rd in Men-Nefer (Memphis).
Post by George Hammond
Post by Bernhard Schornak
Post by George Hammond
Post by George Hammond
Post by George Hammond
[Schornak]
The cross was just an instrument to kill people with
maximum pain.
[Hammond]
Na... its design is supposed to inflict "psychological
pain" not merely physical pain.
Your assumption.
[Hammond]
Na.... now that the Structural Mosdel of Personality has
been PROVEN to be crusiform, it is no longer an
"assumption"... sorry, you lose.
Post by George Hammond
Crucifixion came up with the
phoenicians about 1,000 BCE, and made its way
through the next 1,400 years. Main purpose is
to extend the time to die, there's no need to
do "psychological pain". The physical process
itself surely is nothing you ever want to ex-
perience on your own.
[Hammond]
hey... cut the war stories.... I'm 68 years old and come
from a military family. We're here to discuss the
scientific proof of God not the history of terrorism.
Just for the record: Your sentence implies that Je-
sus was a terrorist.
[Hammond]
Oh cut the amateur bull shit, this isn't a Sunday
school discussion. Pedal the street rap somewhere else.
At least you got the point we are talking science,
not goobledigook. I see that you have no arguments
to offer, so you try to get around with attacks on
the person. Take it easy - I'm used to that... ;)
Post by George Hammond
Post by Bernhard Schornak
Post by George Hammond
Post by George Hammond
Probably you forget that the christian symbol
was the<fish>
[Hammond]
Fish, snakes and birds are ephemeral symbols of
psychological syndromes. The snake and the bird being
perhaps foremost. This is why the Phaorh wore a Snake and a
Bird on his forehead 16 hours a day.... half the population
was as scared as sparrows of bullys and the other half had
some form of god awful contageous disease and felt like
untouchables... therefore the Pharoah wore a snake and a
bird on his forehead to let you KNOW that he KNEW what you
were afraid of and that HE understood it and therefore that
it was safe to talk to him.
Where is the connection between the christian fish-
symbol (which meant something like free as a fish!)
and the Jaret Snake or the Nechbet Veil?
[Hammond]
For Christ sakes Bernie, how old are you?
I was born in December 1956...
Post by George Hammond
"fish",
that is the smell of a fish, is the world's oldest reference
the penalty attendant on female lack of chastity. What
the hell do you think a "mermaid" is supposed to represent?
You don't know nothing of Bernie, you know nothing about
life! You do realize that the entire Bible is one
long sermon on chastity.... don't you? The fish is the
symbol of female unchastity, and the snake is the symbol of
male unchastity. You're so stupid it's embarrassing , dummy
up for Christ sakes!
I didn't know that mermaids were a symbol of early
christians. Besides that, you probably are the 1st
and last human on Earth who ever believed what you
wrote. Just four out of 3,070,000 hits:

http://www.seiyaku.com/customs/fish/fish.html
http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_symb.htm
http://www.eureka4you.com/fish/fishsymbol.htm
http://www.albatrus.org/english/religions/pagan/origin_fish_symbol.htm
Post by George Hammond
Post by Bernhard Schornak
Post by George Hammond
[Hammond]
Na... you are still under the sway of traditional
academic teaching which holds that all religion is
"arbitrary convention" and not founded on immutable
axiomatic physicial laws.
I'm reading books about ancient egypt history since
about 42 years now,
[Hammond]
I've spent devades studying ancient Egypt, especially the
religion of ancient Egypt. Physics has a long tradition
of this as I have mentioned, going back to Newton
and Young. As a physicist I am following
in their footsteps.
Neither Newton nor Young ever accounted themselves
as Egyptologists, nor did they really work in this
field.
Post by George Hammond
Post by Bernhard Schornak
Actually, I'm no
believer of weird theories - I just rely on facts.
If you can provide (yet) unknown facts, just let me
know.
[Hammond]
I'm a physicist with credentials to prove it, you are
not. I've published a scientific proof of God in the
peer-reviewed literature.
I was the only one who ever peer-revied it, or are
there any other docoments on the web who ever dis-
cussed your "theory" in detail?
Post by George Hammond
You're not qualified to read it
because you don't even know what an eigenvector is.
Your speculation...
Post by George Hammond
So once again, you're sitting there telling a physicist
that you "only believe in facts" and that I haven't stated
any, is not only a blatant lie, it is obviously nothing but
deliberate heckling by an unqualified and aggravated
pseudo-intellectual wannabee.
Where are youre facts and who ever approved them?
Post by George Hammond
Post by Bernhard Schornak
Post by George Hammond
This ignorant belief is of course
false, and academics are as outdated as buggy whips.
Facts require no beliefs - they *are*.
[Hammond]
There are two accredited universities in Massachusetts
who have publicly certified that I know what a scientific
fact is.
Any links to prove that?
Post by George Hammond
On the other hand, there is absolutely no certified
corroboration that you do.
That should be good for what? Scientific work does
not require (meaningless) titles, but knowledge of
its principles - not more, not less.
Post by George Hammond
Post by Bernhard Schornak
Post by George Hammond
Richard
Dawkins is a typical example... he doesn't even believe
there is a God... and here I am having actually published
the scientific proof there is in the peer reviewed
literature.... what a joke!
Who is Richard Dawkins? Where is the connection be-
tween Dawkins, SPOG and scientific historical stud-
ies (in this case Egyptology)?
[Hammond]
Did you say "who is Richard Dawkins". For Christ's sake
Bernie, he is the world's most famous living biologist. He's
a full professor at Oxford, has written half a dozen
best-selling books which have been translated into
half a dozen foreign languages. In fact, he happens to be
at the present moment the world's most famous atheist.
As you know, I'm a programmer, Biology is a little
bit out of my scope. No human can know everything.
Post by George Hammond
Post by Bernhard Schornak
Post by George Hammond
Post by George Hammond
Post by George Hammond
[Schornak]
Djed pillars have four capitals, so it is quite hard
to mismatch them with a "T" or "t" shaped cross.
[Hammond]
Look, you are failing to distinguish between the Cross
and the Trinity. The Cross is the STRUCTURAL symbol of
Psychology based on the orthogonal cleavage of the brain
while the Trinity represents the DYNAMIC structure of
psychology because it is the trinary feedback loop commonly
known as the "father son and holy spirit" which controls the
mind. The CROSS and the TRINITY in the Egyptian religion
were known as the ANKH and the DJED.
No trinity comparable to the christian belief
system existed in Egyptian mythology.
[Hammond]
You have absolutely a ludicrous lack of any qualification
whatsoever to make such a statement and that fact has been
more than adequately documented.
Do you have any diploma in Egyptology? If not, the
same applies to you. If you want to discuss -your-
"theories" in a newsgroup, you should provide your
facts and improve it at places where it shows some
weaknesses.
Post by George Hammond
Post by Bernhard Schornak
Post by George Hammond
[Hammond]
Says who... you... an unemployed truck drive and amateur
musician fro ausberg... give me a break! You don't know
what you're talking about.... you're so far in over your
head it's ridiculous.
Seems you have no arguments to come up with?
[Hammond]
My arguments have been published and are are presented in
this thread. You're the one who has no counter arguments
to present.
And I was the only one who seriously considered to
-discuss- them, while some others joined after our
first debatte?
Post by George Hammond
Post by Bernhard Schornak
I'm surely not an amateur musician, as I had my own
studio and produced a single (EP) and one LP. There
is a difference between amateurs and professionals.
http://www.youtube.com/user/BernhardSchornak
By the way, my education is comparable to your's. I
visited a technical college, JFYI. You surely don't
want to blame me that I couldn't go to school _and_
do a full time job at the same time?
[Hammond]
I have 2 degrees in theoretical physics, you have none,
end of argument. For you to sit there and say that
your education is comparable to mine, is
nothing but the bleeting of an aggravated and
envious jackass wannabee. You're a heckler Bernie,
nothing more. The way I understand it,
Germany is full of them.
Well, you do not know anything about my education,
so this is pure speculation of your side - even if
someone was a professor with twenty doctor titles,
you did find a reason why that person isn't quali-
fied to debate your claims...
Post by George Hammond
Post by Bernhard Schornak
Post by George Hammond
THE DJED PILLAR IS THE
SYMBOL OF THE TRINITY
IN THE EGYPTIAN RELIGION
In that respect, the Egyptian religion is equal to or
superior than Christianity, and certainly more sophisticated
than the Mosaic religion.
Writing claims in all capital letters doesn't prove
them. If you think that Romet gods and godesses are
better than the Jewish or Christian religions, it's
worth a thought to convert. No Romet priests there,
so no one tells you what to do - isn't that great?
[Hammond]
You're an ignorant jackass Bernie. I've published the
proof in the peer reviewed literature that the "gods" of all
of the pagan religions are the second order eigenvectors,
and I have discovered the proof of this in the fact that
they are cubically correlated by the orthogonal cleavage
of the brain. That is a HISTORIC scientific discovery.
Did any of those peer-reviewers approve any points
of your "theory"? Who? Where?

AFAIK, the only peer-review ever published was the
"Anti-SPoG" on my website (offline since 2006) and
no one ever approved your claims.
Post by George Hammond
Two kinds of people are aware that this historic
discovery has been made by Hammond. First are the
authorities, who are outraged with envy and scared to death
of me and don't dare talk to me because they know that I
have the drop on them. And the second are heckling rabble
such as you.
So your "theory" is a flop - no serious scientists
are willing to waste their precious time with your
"theory" and you're not willing to accept facts or
arguments of those who are willing to discuss your
"theory" in detail.
Post by George Hammond
Fortunately, I have full protection against both enemies.
First I am an American and protected by the Constitution
and the world's leading military power, which means that no
foreigners can threaten me. Secondly, I live in a
prestigious area and and am well-connected politically
so that no American academic authorities dare screw
around with me either. Thirdly. Thanks to the advent of
the Internet and American free speech guarantees,
I can pound the shit out my enemies all day long.
And lastly, I'm using voice recognition technology and
dictating this at 130 words a minute..... so that you
can't even out talk me!
Keep them. I am not interested to take any of your
"arguments" away from you... ;)
Post by George Hammond
Post by Bernhard Schornak
Post by George Hammond
Post by George Hammond
Egypt's gods and godesses were merged in some
thousand years, assigning powers of the basic
entities to the new one, but one of both dis-
appeared in this process.
[Hammond]
Are you kidding.. the Egyptian Pantheon was more
sophisticated than the Greco-Roman Pantheon and predates the
modern Pantheon of "Mickey Mouse, donald Duck, Bugs Bunny
and Porky Pig" by 4,000 years! You don't know what you're
talking about.
What has your reply to do with the sentences above?
[Hammond]
The point is, since it is obviously over your head, that
the origin of the gods, the number of the gods, and the
character of the gods, is NOT ARBITRARY. The gods
since they originate in an axiomatic law of physics, are
identical in every age in every society and in every
religion, so therefore, YOUR explanation of the gods
is nothing but a pile of outdated rubbish.
Do you see yourself as an "Overgod" beyond science
and facts? Then you should be able to turn back to
those times and recreate the world that it matches
your later "theory", but... do not forget to leave
some artifacts for archeological excavations!
Post by George Hammond
Post by Bernhard Schornak
Post by George Hammond
[Hammond]
Baloney, Christianiy didn't discover the Trinity until
500 years after Jesus was dead for chrissakes.
The "trinity" was declared as a dogma 325 CE at the
1st council of Nicaea.
[Hammond]
okay, 325 years after Jesus was dead.
Assuming Jesus ever existed as a person, it should
be 292 years after his death (about 33 CE)?
Post by George Hammond
Post by Bernhard Schornak
There's no such thing in any
other religion on this planet.
[Hammond]
Thats where you are full of shit Bernie. It turns out
that the ancient Egyptian religion, is the one other major
religion in the history of the world that contains an
explicit representation of the Trinity, and that is the Djed
pillar. Fact is, the Egyptians discovered it long before
the Christians.
Trying to explain that to you, is of course useless,
you're not even qualified to read my published proof
of the scientific origin of the Cross!
Which faculty?


Greetings from Augsburg

Bernhard Schornak
George Hammond
2010-08-02 08:52:46 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Mon, 02 Aug 2010 08:31:39 +0200, Bernhard Schornak
Post by Bernhard Schornak
Post by George Hammond
Post by Bernhard Schornak
Post by George Hammond
Post by George Hammond
[Hammond]
Is the Pope a Catholic?
Nope - he's a pope (belonging to a rope...).
[Hammond]
What's that supposed to be a non sequitur?
Just my humble opinion. I hate to live in Bavaria as
long as this unholy virus is not put into a jail. It
might not be known in the USA (where most christians
are not catholic), but every educated European knows
about his historical background as Great Inquisitor.
He also was involved in corporal punishment of a lot
of children being held in catholic "residential" and
"approved" schools in the borders of his diocese.
Not to speak of his "deeds" as pope, kicking the de-
velopments of the last two centuries back to deepest
Middle Ages. Not to speak of his reactonary books or
public statements.
Sorry, but I only have links to German sites. I just
http://www.newint.org/issue327/worldbeaters.htm
Google for "ratzinger+inquisition" and the likes...
[Hammond]
I am a Protestant and my family has been Protestant for
ten generations as far as I know. My stepsister called me
up in the middle of the night a couple of months ago and
told me that she was converting to Catholicism. I haven't
heard anything about it recently but at the time I wrote it
off to the fact that she is a redhead. That's all I know
about the Catholic Church other than what I've read in a
book.
Post by Bernhard Schornak
Post by George Hammond
<Snip>
Post by Bernhard Schornak
Post by George Hammond
[Hammond]
Allen, like Gardiner is not a scientist (e.g. physicist)
nor is he a psychologist or a theologian. You can't expect
a line professional linguist or literature expert or an
"Egyoptologist" to tell you anything new or scientific about
the Egyotian religion.
Actually, I doubt that physicists are interested in
ancient Egypt mythology at all. Metaphysics, as the
name suggests, are outside the scope of physicists.
[Hammond]
that's simply more "Shornak misinformation" something
you're famous for. The fact is the great physicist Thomas
Young was one of the first to decipher the Egyptian
alphabet. Beyond that, Isaac Newton history's most famous
physicist left 5 million written words on the subject of God
and religion. So once again it is clear that you don't know
what you're talking about.
Which was not part of their work as physicists. If
it had been, no one did care about them today, be-
cause they had been ignored by real physicists for
mismatching disciplines held _separately_ for good
reasons. If you read the wiki with care, you might
recognise that Newton clearly denied the "trinity"
and had much trouble with the order of the jesuits
because of his denial.
[Hammond]
Yes it is a fact that Newton vehemently denied the
Trinity. As a matter of fact I consider this to be a prime
piece of evidence that Isaac Newton was not quite as savvy
as people think he was. first of all I'm surprised that a
person of his intellectual ability would take it upon
himself to defy the established religion of the entire
Western world. My conclusion is that Newton had a small
screw loose somewhere in his head, and in addition to that
is the fact that he never got married nor did he seem to be
very interested in women. All in all this points to the
fact, in my humble opinion, that Isaac Newton had a rather
substantial underlying psychological problem. This is
perhaps evidenced by the fact that he had a documented
mental breakdown in his later years.
At any rate, his denial of the Trinity turns out to be a
major scientific debacle in light of the fact that I have
clearly identified the Trinity as the trinary feedback loop
of fundamental cybernetics. Cybernetics of course was
unknown in his day, but for Christ sakes Bernie merely the
existence of the "three branches of government" should be
enough to clue any intelligent scientist into the fact that
there is such a thing as the Trinity!
Post by Bernhard Schornak
Post by George Hammond
Post by Bernhard Schornak
Post by George Hammond
Most "Egyptologists" of the past century have been museum
curators for chrissakes... including Budge. Fact is, a
PHYSICIST (Thomas Young of two slit fame) made the first
breakthrouh in decipering Heiroglyphics. Champollian built
on Young's work.
Akerblad deciphered parts of the Rosetta Stone *12*
years before Young. Young improved Akerblad's work,
but Champollion was the one who came up with a com-
plete translation.
[Hammond]
That's an accurate statement, but is also a statement
that appears in every textbook on the subject and is well
known to everyone. Posting common knowledge for the sake
of hearing yourself talk is an annoying habit if not
deliberate harassment.
Or you just "forgot" to mention that Young neither
began nor finished the work, but just participated
with decipering a few parts of the entire stone?
[Hammond]
yeah but keep in mind the fact that Thomas Young is
responsible for one of the most spectacular scientific
discoveries in the history of physics... namely the famous
"Two Slit Experiment" which is practically a foundation
stone of modern quantum mechanics and is still hotly debated
and actively investigated by modern researchers.
For such a theoretical physics powerhouse to identify the
problem of deciphering Heiroglyphics, immediately tells you
that there must be some connection between ancient Egyptian
knowledge and modern physics. And indeed Young was correct,
the ancient Egyptian religion turns out to be the fountain
from which all knowledge about the basic scientific
structure of religion actually originates.... the Sun God,
the animal headed pantheon, the Ankh, and the Djed being the
prime items of interest scientifically.
Post by Bernhard Schornak
Post by George Hammond
Post by Bernhard Schornak
Post by George Hammond
In fact here is a picture of a modern Djed pillar from an
http://www.lonebiker.dk/Ausbilleder/6.jpg
The highest level shown is 27 meters.
If this isn't a modern day Djed-pillar I'll eat my hat!
Do you read an entire story out of this JPG image?
As it is a JPG, none of the characters is readable
if you enlarge it to a size where they should. How
did you get that story? Who gives proof that those
markers determine flood heights or anything else?
[Hammond]
Bernie, your argumentative diversion about stupid and
inconsequential stuff is bores the shit out of every one.
The full story on this Australian "nileometer" is given at:
http://tinyurl.com/25t74qy
Just scroll down about a page and a half and you'll see the
picture and story. I can't believe that you're actually
going to take the time to check something stupid and obvious
like that out... OBVIOUSLY, someone with my professional
credentials is not to lie about something as stupid as
simple as that. Your incessant argumentative, aggravated
and ignorant naysaying is something too tedious for any
intelligent person to even listen to.
Post by Bernhard Schornak
Post by George Hammond
Post by Bernhard Schornak
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nilometer
Does not look like a Djed pillar...
[Hammond]
yeah, well here is a Nileometer that actually is a stone
pillar:
http://www.touregypt.net/featurestories/nilometerroda.htm
It doesn't have cross bars on it, but it does have cross
marks chiseled into the stone.
Post by Bernhard Schornak
Post by George Hammond
[Hammond]
Another blatant misstatement of fact. Many Djed pillars
made in stone and fired clay were FLAT and looked
EXACTLY like this picture. Quit lying!
You mismatch amulets with the real thing. It isn't
comfortable to wear a sharp egded square object on
your chest. Hence, amulets were flat and had round
edges.
[Hammond]
Bernie, we have more important things to discuss than the
Djed pillar. The fact is the Djed pillar is obviously an
ICONIC SYMBOL and in its final form probably does not
represent ANY specific object, but rather an entire CLASS of
objects which fall into the "Venetian blind" category, and
all of which have the same fundamental and now iconic we
abstracted psychological effect on the human mind. And net
effect is EXACTLY to conjure up a notion of the existence of
"transcendental vision" which is otherwise generally
ascribed to the TRINITY in modern religion.
Whew.... how many times and in how many different ways do
I have to say it?
Post by Bernhard Schornak
Post by George Hammond
Post by Bernhard Schornak
Post by George Hammond
Post by George Hammond
The kings were an
incarnation of their gods, no one had a right
to question them or measure them against any-
thing.
[Hammond]
You got it backwards... everybody else was measured
relative to the king...not only every lenght was meqasured
relative to the kings foot... everbodies MENTAL
ENLIGHTENMENT was measured relative to his which is WHY he
was responsible for "raising the pillar".
See above. No one was measured against the king, as
no one was measured against the gods and godesses -
you cannot measure mortals against over-beings. The
kings were incarnations of the gods...
[Hammond]
Your statement is not only blatantly stupid, wrong and
impudent, it obviously defies common opinion.
Everyone is always measured against the best in any field.
If the best is given a score of 100, everyone else gets a
score between one and 100.
Absolute perfection, is the perfect score, and we are all
rated on that scale.
Your habit of arguing for arguments sake is rude, ugly
and universally recognized as a common form of harassment,
in the end you're just a heckler.
What you call herassment is called scientific work
in the real world. I pick up arguments and compare
them against scientifically proven facts. If there
is a difference between proven facts and arguments
claiming to replace those proven facts, it is just
a matter of reason to refute that claim if it does
not match with the known facts nor is a reasonable
addition to them.
[Hammond]
Bernie, we are discussing an object the size of the
Titanic... we simply don't have time to argue over every
nut, bolt, screw and rivet in the entire structure. life is
not long enough for that kind of thing. You are violating a
fundamental law of professional etiquette by failing to
recognize the fact that I have 2 degrees in theoretical
physics and therefore I have a right of passage in
professional debate when it comes to elementary nuts and
bolts introductory physics items. You may not like that,
but that's your problem not mine. Those are the excepted
rules.
Post by Bernhard Schornak
Post by George Hammond
Post by Bernhard Schornak
Post by George Hammond
Post by George Hammond
BTW: There also were Djed pillars with five
http://www.aegyptologie.com/forum/attachments/DjedCnv0439.jpg
[Hammond]
Yes, obviously... and thanks for that picture. The
actual nileometers probably were telephone pole sized with
10 or more crossbars, since the Nile rose as much as 25 feet
some years. the Djed Symbol is only a stylized iconic
representation of the real thing... it caputres the
"visuo-psychological impact" of the thing.
Only in the Southernmost parts of Egypt. In Memphis
(Mn-nfr, Hwt-k3-pth) it was just 2 meters. I think,
your are a little bit besides the real thing.
[Hammond]
Look, that picture of SETI the first raising the Djed
pillar in the temple at Abdyos shows the Djed pillar to be
just exactly about 2 m tall.
The dimensions of the ritual pillar had to be that
size. The larger the pillar, the more weight. Your
math skills are impressing, so you surely can cal-
culate the maximum weight a single man (in average
condition) will pull with a rope led over a single
roll.
[Hammond]
is the Pope Catholic... the descriptions that I have read
of the raising of the Djed pillar by the Pharaoh suggested
that the ropes blocks and tackle were used and that he had
physical assistance. Just because the picture in the temple
and Abdyos shows him lifting it with his bare hands doesn't
mean that was what actually happened.
But again Bernie, you're arguing trivia simply for the
purpose of being argumentative. You get nothing
constructive to say... you're all about jealous and envious
aggravated heckling.
Post by Bernhard Schornak
Post by George Hammond
In the early days there
must've been one of these things in every field, every
canal, and every reservoir allowing an instant
assessment of the current water level at a single glance
telling them whether to open the sluice gates and let
more water into the field or not.
Your opinion contradicts Egyptian writings. If the
Nile flood didn't reach the minimum tax level, the
dikes were not broken, at all, leaving the farmers
without water (see carvings in the White Chapel of
Senusret I.).
Only three Nilometers were used: Elephantine, Per-
Hapi and Sema-Behdet (Tell-el-Balamun), where Per-
Hapi was used to define the annual tax.
[Hammond]
maybe only three Nileometers were used for tax purposes,
but we can be sure, absolutely sure, that every farmer and
every landowner along the entire 3000 mile stretch of the
Nile must of had half a dozen of them posted in his fields,
in his canals, and along the riverbank. Look at the Bay of
Fundy for instance or anyplace else where there is an
unusually high tide.... tied markers, Plimsoll lines and
"Nileometers" such as the one that I showed you from
Australia are all over the place.
Post by Bernhard Schornak
Post by George Hammond
Post by Bernhard Schornak
There was no real need for nilometers between 3,000
and 100 BCE, because the level of the mediterranean
sea did not change in that time. After 100 BCE, the
level constantly increased, causing some minor pro-
blems with tidal floodings of lower regions.
[Hammond]
You don't know what you're talking about.
Blame those who wrote that document.
Post by George Hammond
It was of
critical importance during all eras to know how fast and how
high or how low the Nile was rising. The Nile roses much as
25 feet in some places.
The highest level was measured in Elephantine, de-
creasing to about 1/3rd in Men-Nefer (Memphis).
{Hammond]
yeah, we know all at, your posting common knowledge again
Post by Bernhard Schornak
Post by George Hammond
Post by Bernhard Schornak
Post by George Hammond
Post by George Hammond
Post by George Hammond
[Schornak]
The cross was just an instrument to kill people with
maximum pain.
[Hammond]
Na... its design is supposed to inflict "psychological
pain" not merely physical pain.
Your assumption.
[Hammond]
Na.... now that the Structural Mosdel of Personality has
been PROVEN to be crusiform, it is no longer an
"assumption"... sorry, you lose.
Post by George Hammond
Crucifixion came up with the
phoenicians about 1,000 BCE, and made its way
through the next 1,400 years. Main purpose is
to extend the time to die, there's no need to
do "psychological pain". The physical process
itself surely is nothing you ever want to ex-
perience on your own.
[Hammond]
hey... cut the war stories.... I'm 68 years old and come
from a military family. We're here to discuss the
scientific proof of God not the history of terrorism.
Just for the record: Your sentence implies that Je-
sus was a terrorist.
[Hammond]
Oh cut the amateur bull shit, this isn't a Sunday
school discussion. Pedal the street rap somewhere else.
At least you got the point we are talking science,
not goobledigook.
[Hammond]
you're not qualified to read Einstein's theory, that
doesn't mean that Einstein's theory is "gobbledygook"... all
it means is that you're not qualified to read it.
Post by Bernhard Schornak
I see that you have no arguments
to offer, so you try to get around with attacks on
the person. Take it easy - I'm used to that... ;)
[Hammond]
I've pointed out that you have no scientific credentials,
and you call that a personal attack..... that's a bunch of
bullshit and everyone knows it.
Post by Bernhard Schornak
Post by George Hammond
Post by Bernhard Schornak
Post by George Hammond
Post by George Hammond
Probably you forget that the christian symbol
was the<fish>
[Hammond]
Fish, snakes and birds are ephemeral symbols of
psychological syndromes. The snake and the bird being
perhaps foremost. This is why the Phaorh wore a Snake and a
Bird on his forehead 16 hours a day.... half the population
was as scared as sparrows of bullys and the other half had
some form of god awful contageous disease and felt like
untouchables... therefore the Pharoah wore a snake and a
bird on his forehead to let you KNOW that he KNEW what you
were afraid of and that HE understood it and therefore that
it was safe to talk to him.
Where is the connection between the christian fish-
symbol (which meant something like free as a fish!)
and the Jaret Snake or the Nechbet Veil?
[Hammond]
For Christ sakes Bernie, how old are you?
I was born in December 1956...
[Hammond]
Huh... I'm 14 years older than you are Bernie, and that
entire 14 years has been spent in 16 hour a day constant
study of physics, psychology and religion. I think you're
failing to take that fact into account especially since my
intellectual capacity was publicly and officially certified
by two universities before I was 27 years old.
Post by Bernhard Schornak
Post by George Hammond
"fish",
that is the smell of a fish, is the world's oldest reference
the penalty attendant on female lack of chastity. What
the hell do you think a "mermaid" is supposed to represent?
You don't know nothing of Bernie, you know nothing about
life! You do realize that the entire Bible is one
long sermon on chastity.... don't you? The fish is the
symbol of female unchastity, and the snake is the symbol of
male unchastity. You're so stupid it's embarrassing , dummy
up for Christ sakes!
I didn't know that mermaids were a symbol of early
christians.
[Hammond]
never said they were.
Post by Bernhard Schornak
Besides that, you probably are the 1st
and last human on Earth who ever believed what you
wrote.
[Hammond]
No Bernie just the opposite. the entire world is
speaking double entendre over your head and the main thing
they're talking about is human psychology, personality types
and what they are apt to do and of particular interest is
how they might react to "fish" "bird" or "snake" all of
which are references to communicable social diseases. as
Freud tells us even during his time half of the neurotic
mental cases in Europe were caused by men catching venereal
disease from their mistresses and then transmitting it to
their wives all of which causes neurotic illness among
everyone concerned. Unbeknownst to you of course, this is a
major topic of conversation scuttlebutt and gossip at all
times in all places in all ages... it is never discussed in
explicit terms, it is only discussed in metaphorical and
symbolic double entendre using such codewords as "fish",
"snakes", "toast", "bacon", "ketchup", "asparagus",
"mayonnaise" etc. etc. but for Christ sakes burning anyone
living in the Western world would have to ask why the fish
was a symbol of early Christianity is a moronetc. etc. etc.
why for Christ sakes Bernie, anyone living in the Western
world who would have to ask why the fish was a symbol of
early Christianity, is a moron!
Post by Bernhard Schornak
http://www.seiyaku.com/customs/fish/fish.html
http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_symb.htm
http://www.eureka4you.com/fish/fishsymbol.htm
http://www.albatrus.org/english/religions/pagan/origin_fish_symbol.htm
Post by George Hammond
Post by Bernhard Schornak
Post by George Hammond
[Hammond]
Na... you are still under the sway of traditional
academic teaching which holds that all religion is
"arbitrary convention" and not founded on immutable
axiomatic physicial laws.
I'm reading books about ancient egypt history since
about 42 years now,
[Hammond]
I've spent devades studying ancient Egypt, especially the
religion of ancient Egypt. Physics has a long tradition
of this as I have mentioned, going back to Newton
and Young. As a physicist I am following
in their footsteps.
Neither Newton nor Young ever accounted themselves
as Egyptologists, nor did they really work in this
field.
{Hammond]
geniuses don't need professional titles
Post by Bernhard Schornak
Post by George Hammond
Post by Bernhard Schornak
Actually, I'm no
believer of weird theories - I just rely on facts.
If you can provide (yet) unknown facts, just let me
know.
[Hammond]
I'm a physicist with credentials to prove it, you are
not. I've published a scientific proof of God in the
peer-reviewed literature.
I was the only one who ever peer-revied it, or are
there any other docoments on the web who ever dis-
cussed your "theory" in detail?
[Hammond]
what are you deaf dumb and blind.... or just ignorant?
the theory was published in a highly respected peer-reviewed
academic journal. That means that three PhD reviewer's of
professorial rank had to read this thing and write a
written review of it and formally recommended for
publication before it was published by the world's premier
scientific publisher Elsevier Science Ltd.
all of this is documented fact and has been posted 1
million times in which you are simply too lazy to check.
Well if you're too lazy to check... then you're not
qualified to post claims that it isn't
Post by Bernhard Schornak
Post by George Hammond
You're not qualified to read it
because you don't even know what an eigenvector is.
Your speculation...
[Hammond]
the fact that you have no scientific degrees is a FACT
not a speculation.
Post by Bernhard Schornak
Post by George Hammond
So once again, you're sitting there telling a physicist
that you "only believe in facts" and that I haven't stated
any, is not only a blatant lie, it is obviously nothing but
deliberate heckling by an unqualified and aggravated
pseudo-intellectual wannabee.
Where are youre facts and who ever approved them?
[Hammond]
the papers have been published in the peer-reviewed
literature, they were approved by professional reviewers,
that is all a matter of documented history which you asked
simply too lazy to check and just sit there ignorantly
claiming otherwise.
Post by Bernhard Schornak
Post by George Hammond
Post by Bernhard Schornak
Post by George Hammond
This ignorant belief is of course
false, and academics are as outdated as buggy whips.
Facts require no beliefs - they *are*.
[Hammond]
There are two accredited universities in Massachusetts
who have publicly certified that I know what a scientific
fact is.
Any links to prove that?
[Hammond]
my CV has been posted 1 million times:

CURRICULUM VITAE

GEORGE HAMMOND

B.S. Physics 1964, Worcester Polytechnic Institute
Worcester MA, USA
M.S. Physics 1967, Northeastern University,
Boston MA, USA
Ph.D. Candidate and Teaching Fellow in Physics, 1967-68
Northeastern Univ. Boston MA
Note: Studied Relativity under Prof. Richard Arnowitt
at N.U. and who is presently Distinguished
Professor of Physics at TAMU

If you're going to sit there and say that this is a
fraudulent CV then I suggest you better pick up the
telephone and called the records office at the two
universities cited and prove it, otherwise YOU'RE A
SLANDERER, LIBELER AND A LIAR.
Post by Bernhard Schornak
Post by George Hammond
On the other hand, there is absolutely no certified
corroboration that you do.
That should be good for what? Scientific work does
not require (meaningless) titles,
[Hammond]
the only people who say that a college degree is a
meaningless title are people who don't have one.. such as
you. That is a well-known fact.
Post by Bernhard Schornak
but knowledge of
its principles - not more, not less.
Post by George Hammond
Post by Bernhard Schornak
Post by George Hammond
Richard
Dawkins is a typical example... he doesn't even believe
there is a God... and here I am having actually published
the scientific proof there is in the peer reviewed
literature.... what a joke!
Who is Richard Dawkins? Where is the connection be-
tween Dawkins, SPOG and scientific historical stud-
ies (in this case Egyptology)?
[Hammond]
Did you say "who is Richard Dawkins". For Christ's sake
Bernie, he is the world's most famous living biologist. He's
a full professor at Oxford, has written half a dozen
best-selling books which have been translated into
half a dozen foreign languages. In fact, he happens to be
at the present moment the world's most famous atheist.
As you know, I'm a programmer, Biology is a little
bit out of my scope. No human can know everything.
[Hammond]
that's not all that is out of your scope. The entire
scientific proof of God that I have published is entirely
out of your scope!
Post by Bernhard Schornak
Post by George Hammond
Post by Bernhard Schornak
Post by George Hammond
Post by George Hammond
Post by George Hammond
[Schornak]
Djed pillars have four capitals, so it is quite hard
to mismatch them with a "T" or "t" shaped cross.
[Hammond]
Look, you are failing to distinguish between the Cross
and the Trinity. The Cross is the STRUCTURAL symbol of
Psychology based on the orthogonal cleavage of the brain
while the Trinity represents the DYNAMIC structure of
psychology because it is the trinary feedback loop commonly
known as the "father son and holy spirit" which controls the
mind. The CROSS and the TRINITY in the Egyptian religion
were known as the ANKH and the DJED.
No trinity comparable to the christian belief
system existed in Egyptian mythology.
[Hammond]
You have absolutely a ludicrous lack of any qualification
whatsoever to make such a statement and that fact has been
more than adequately documented.
Do you have any diploma in Egyptology? If not, the
same applies to you. If you want to discuss -your-
"theories" in a newsgroup, you should provide your
facts and improve it at places where it shows some
weaknesses.
[Hammond]
I think the fact that a physicist named Thomas Young made
a world famous breakthrough in the decipherment of
hieroglyphics is enough evidence that a graduate physicist
is capable of making fundamental discoveries in Egyptology.
<snip rest of boring argumentation>
[Hammond]
Bernie, I've posted another couple of messages to you. It
appears that either you're Internet connectionn, or
newsgroup service is not very good.... so I so hope you see
the other two short messages concerning the Trinity and Life
After Death.
If you have any general standalone statements about these
two other posts I'd be glad to see them.
========================================
GEORGE HAMMOND'S PROOF OF GOD WEBSITE
Primary site
http://webspace.webring.com/people/eg/george_hammond
Mirror site
http://proof-of-god.freewebsitehosting.com
HAMMOND FOLK SONG by Casey Bennetto
http://interrobang.jwgh.org/songs/hammond.mp3
=======================================
Geopelia
2010-08-02 14:23:02 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by George Hammond
On Mon, 02 Aug 2010 08:31:39 +0200, Bernhard Schornak
Post by Bernhard Schornak
Post by George Hammond
Post by Bernhard Schornak
Post by George Hammond
Post by George Hammond
[Hammond]
Is the Pope a Catholic?
Nope - he's a pope (belonging to a rope...).
[Hammond]
What's that supposed to be a non sequitur?
Just my humble opinion. I hate to live in Bavaria as
long as this unholy virus is not put into a jail. It
might not be known in the USA (where most christians
are not catholic), but every educated European knows
about his historical background as Great Inquisitor.
He also was involved in corporal punishment of a lot
of children being held in catholic "residential" and
"approved" schools in the borders of his diocese.
Not to speak of his "deeds" as pope, kicking the de-
velopments of the last two centuries back to deepest
Middle Ages. Not to speak of his reactonary books or
public statements.
Sorry, but I only have links to German sites. I just
http://www.newint.org/issue327/worldbeaters.htm
Google for "ratzinger+inquisition" and the likes...
[Hammond]
I am a Protestant and my family has been Protestant for
ten generations as far as I know. My stepsister called me
up in the middle of the night a couple of months ago and
told me that she was converting to Catholicism. I haven't
heard anything about it recently but at the time I wrote it
off to the fact that she is a redhead. That's all I know
about the Catholic Church other than what I've read in a
book.
(rest snipped)

[Geopelia]
My family were Church of England, but I had relatives (including my
Godmother) who converted to Catholicism, so I grew up learning about both
religions.
It seems very sad that there should be so much animosity between the two
beliefs, especially in Ireland.
It's not for me to criticize either church, but if I had to pick one I'd be
C of E.

I've been agnostic for years now, but still like the old hymns etc.
Darwin123
2010-08-03 23:25:26 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Geopelia
Post by George Hammond
On Mon, 02 Aug 2010 08:31:39 +0200, Bernhard Schornak
Post by Bernhard Schornak
Post by George Hammond
Post by Bernhard Schornak
Post by George Hammond
Post by George Hammond
[Hammond]
Is the Pope a Catholic?
Nope - he's a pope (belonging to a rope...).
[Hammond]
What's that supposed to be a non sequitur?
Just my humble opinion. I hate to live in Bavaria as
long as this unholy virus is not put into a jail. It
might not be known in the USA (where most christians
are not catholic), but every educated European knows
about his historical background as Great Inquisitor.
He also was involved in corporal punishment of a lot
of children being held in catholic "residential" and
"approved" schools in the borders of his diocese.
Not to speak of his "deeds" as pope, kicking the de-
velopments of the last two centuries back to deepest
Middle Ages. Not to speak of his reactonary books or
public statements.
Sorry, but I only have links to German sites. I just
http://www.newint.org/issue327/worldbeaters.htm
Google for "ratzinger+inquisition" and the likes...
[Hammond]
  I am a Protestant and my family has been Protestant for
ten generations as far as I know.  My stepsister called me
up in the middle of the night a couple of months ago and
told me that she was converting to Catholicism.  I haven't
heard anything about it recently but at the time I wrote it
off to the fact that she is a redhead.  That's all I know
about the Catholic Church other than what I've read in a
book.
(rest snipped)
[Geopelia]
My family were Church of England, but I had relatives (including my
Godmother) who converted to Catholicism, so I grew up learning about both
religions.
Isn't the Church of England a form of Catholicism? I thought that
there were three types of Catholicism: Anglican, Roman and Orthodox.
I thought that word "Protestant" technically referred to the
Protest of Martin Luther. I have never heard of King Henry the Eighth
"protesting". Henry "kicked butt", he burnt and beheaded. Henry never
"protested".
Post by Geopelia
It seems very sad that there should be so much animosity between >the two beliefs, especially in Ireland.
I haven't completely understood. When they say "Irish Catholic,"
are they referring to the Anglican Church? Or are they referring to
one of the derivatives of Lutherism.
Post by Geopelia
It's not for me to criticize either church, but if I had to pick one I'd be
C of E.
Sure. It ends up being about the people you most want to be with.
Makes sense.
Post by Geopelia
I've been agnostic for years now, but still like the old hymns etc.
That is the most sensible criteria for any religion that I
have ever heard |:-) The second most sensible is being with the people
you like the most.
Neon
2010-08-04 01:05:49 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Geopelia
Post by George Hammond
On Mon, 02 Aug 2010 08:31:39 +0200, Bernhard Schornak
Post by Bernhard Schornak
Post by George Hammond
Post by Bernhard Schornak
Post by George Hammond
Post by George Hammond
[Hammond]
Is the Pope a Catholic?
Nope - he's a pope (belonging to a rope...).
[Hammond]
What's that supposed to be a non sequitur?
Just my humble opinion. I hate to live in Bavaria as
long as this unholy virus is not put into a jail. It
might not be known in the USA (where most christians
are not catholic), but every educated European knows
about his historical background as Great Inquisitor.
He also was involved in corporal punishment of a lot
of children being held in catholic "residential" and
"approved" schools in the borders of his diocese.
Not to speak of his "deeds" as pope, kicking the de-
velopments of the last two centuries back to deepest
Middle Ages. Not to speak of his reactonary books or
public statements.
Sorry, but I only have links to German sites. I just
http://www.newint.org/issue327/worldbeaters.htm
Google for "ratzinger+inquisition" and the likes...
[Hammond]
  I am a Protestant and my family has been Protestant for
ten generations as far as I know.  My stepsister called me
up in the middle of the night a couple of months ago and
told me that she was converting to Catholicism.  I haven't
heard anything about it recently but at the time I wrote it
off to the fact that she is a redhead.  That's all I know
about the Catholic Church other than what I've read in a
book.
(rest snipped)
[Geopelia]
My family were Church of England, but I had relatives (including my
Godmother) who converted to Catholicism, so I grew up learning about both
religions.
    Isn't the Church of England a form of Catholicism? I thought that
there were three types of Catholicism: Anglican, Roman and Orthodox.
     I thought that word "Protestant" technically referred to the
Protest of Martin Luther. I have never heard of King Henry the Eighth
"protesting".  Henry "kicked butt", he burnt and beheaded. Henry never
"protested".> It seems very sad that there should be so much animosity between >the two beliefs, especially in Ireland.
    I haven't completely understood. When they say "Irish Catholic,"
are they referring to the Anglican Church? Or are they referring to
one of the derivatives of Lutherism.> It's not for me to criticize either church, but if I had to pick one I'd be
Post by Geopelia
C of E.
    Sure. It ends up being about the people you most want to be with.
Makes sense.
Post by Geopelia
I've been agnostic for years now, but still like the old hymns etc.
         That is the most sensible criteria for any religion that I
have ever heard |:-) The second most sensible is being with the people
you like the most.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Don't ask...isn't enough they can go outside of sacred marriage?
Geopelia
2010-08-04 02:11:05 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Geopelia
Post by George Hammond
On Mon, 02 Aug 2010 08:31:39 +0200, Bernhard Schornak
Post by Bernhard Schornak
Post by George Hammond
Post by Bernhard Schornak
Post by George Hammond
Post by George Hammond
[Hammond]
Is the Pope a Catholic?
Nope - he's a pope (belonging to a rope...).
[Hammond]
What's that supposed to be a non sequitur?
Just my humble opinion. I hate to live in Bavaria as
long as this unholy virus is not put into a jail. It
might not be known in the USA (where most christians
are not catholic), but every educated European knows
about his historical background as Great Inquisitor.
He also was involved in corporal punishment of a lot
of children being held in catholic "residential" and
"approved" schools in the borders of his diocese.
Not to speak of his "deeds" as pope, kicking the de-
velopments of the last two centuries back to deepest
Middle Ages. Not to speak of his reactonary books or
public statements.
Sorry, but I only have links to German sites. I just
http://www.newint.org/issue327/worldbeaters.htm
Google for "ratzinger+inquisition" and the likes...
[Hammond]
I am a Protestant and my family has been Protestant for
ten generations as far as I know. My stepsister called me
up in the middle of the night a couple of months ago and
told me that she was converting to Catholicism. I haven't
heard anything about it recently but at the time I wrote it
off to the fact that she is a redhead. That's all I know
about the Catholic Church other than what I've read in a
book.
(rest snipped)
[Geopelia]
My family were Church of England, but I had relatives (including my
Godmother) who converted to Catholicism, so I grew up learning about both
religions.
Isn't the Church of England a form of Catholicism? I thought that
there were three types of Catholicism: Anglican, Roman and Orthodox.

[Geopelia]
Isn't Orthodox the Greek Church?

The worship in most English village churches in the forties followed the
Book of Common Prayer services (now superseded, I think). The King James
Bible (KJV) was used for the Lessons.
But there was "High" Church, I think called Anglo Catholic, which apart from
having services in English not Latin, and not being headed by the Pope,
might as well have been Catholic. There was all that incense, genuflecting
and crossing themselves, even Confession. Fine for those who preferred it,
of course. I think they were called the Cowley Fathers, in Oxford.
------------
I thought that word "Protestant" technically referred to the
Protest of Martin Luther. I have never heard of King Henry the Eighth
"protesting". Henry "kicked butt", he burnt and beheaded. Henry never
"protested".
-----------------
Luther was protesting against abuses in the Catholic Church, selling
indulgences etc.

Henry VIII wanted his marriage to Catherine of Aragon ended. (It's a long
story, Google it.)
He ended up Head of the English church, but still following many of the
Catholic practices.

It seems very sad that there should be so much animosity between >the two
beliefs, especially in Ireland.
-----------------------
I haven't completely understood. When they say "Irish Catholic,"
are they referring to the Anglican Church? Or are they referring to
one of the derivatives of Lutherism.
----------------------
I think most people say Irish Catholic to distinguish between the Irish and
the Catholics of other races, and the Irish Protestants.
There are Irish Protestants in Eire of course, but far fewer than in
Northern Ireland.
Post by Geopelia
It's not for me to criticize either church, but if I had to pick one I'd be
C of E.
---------------
Sure. It ends up being about the people you most want to be with.
Makes sense.
----------------
And the religion of one's ancestors, back to the Reformation.
Before that, they would all have been Catholics, of course.

In our family, "Chapel" wasn't considered respectable! But the Methodists
have some lovely hymns.
Post by Geopelia
I've been agnostic for years now, but still like the old hymns etc.
That is the most sensible criteria for any religion that I
have ever heard |:-) The second most sensible is being with the people
you like the most.
----------

Thank goodness these days we can believe anything we like or nothing at all.
George Hammond
2010-08-04 05:37:33 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Wed, 4 Aug 2010 14:11:05 +1200, "Geopelia"
Post by Geopelia
[Geopelia]
Thank goodness these days we can believe anything we like or nothing at all.
[Hammond]
Herr Schornak keeps claiming that Elsevier Scientific
Publishers never published my paper.
Would <geopelia>, or <neon>, or <darwin123> or <John
Stafford> or ANYBODY reading this message kindly click on
http://tinyurl.com/ygqopj5 and scroll down a couple of
inches and confirm that this webpage is the official
citation of my paper by ELSEVIER SCIENTIFIC PUBLISHERS LTD
on their online publishing catalog called "Science Direct".
Thanks so much, Meister Schornak has been spreading this
fraudulent rumor for years and it is beginning to annoy me.
========================================
GEORGE HAMMOND'S PROOF OF GOD WEBSITE
Primary site
http://webspace.webring.com/people/eg/george_hammond
Mirror site
http://proof-of-god.freewebsitehosting.com
HAMMOND FOLK SONG by Casey Bennetto
http://interrobang.jwgh.org/songs/hammond.mp3
=======================================
Geopelia
2010-08-04 11:55:56 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by George Hammond
On Wed, 4 Aug 2010 14:11:05 +1200, "Geopelia"
Post by Geopelia
[Geopelia]
Thank goodness these days we can believe anything we like or nothing at all.
[Hammond]
Herr Schornak keeps claiming that Elsevier Scientific
Publishers never published my paper.
Would <geopelia>, or <neon>, or <darwin123> or <John
Stafford> or ANYBODY reading this message kindly click on
http://tinyurl.com/ygqopj5 and scroll down a couple of
inches and confirm that this webpage is the official
citation of my paper by ELSEVIER SCIENTIFIC PUBLISHERS LTD
on their online publishing catalog called "Science Direct".
Thanks so much, Meister Schornak has been spreading this
fraudulent rumor for years and it is beginning to annoy me.
[Geopelia]
I found it.
The computer wouldn't post some of what I tried to copy, but I think there
is enough here to prove Elsevier Science Ltd published it.

Here you are:

New Ideas in Psychology
Volume 12, Issue 2, July 1994, Pages 153-167
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
doi:10.1016/0732-118X(94)90105-8 | How to Cite or Link Using DOI
Copyright © 1994 Published by Elsevier Science Ltd. All rights
reserved. Cited By in Scopus (1)
Permissions & Reprints

The Cartesian theory: Unification of Eysenck and Gray

References and further reading may be available for this article. To view
references and further reading you must purchase this article.

George E. Hammond

Massachusetts Department of Mental Health, 78 Pleasant Street, Hyannis, MA
02601, U.S.A.


Abstract
This paper advances a new and comprehensive theory of the biological basis
of the Structural Model of Personality. The Cartesian geometry of the brain
is proposed as the origin of the Structural Model. Eysenck's personality
model is identified with the Cartesian structure of the brain. A decussation
in the Papez loop serves to unify Gray's personality model with Eysenck's
model providing strong experimental support. The theory explains the Big-5
model in psychometry which is cited as a direct empirical confirmation. The
Cartesian Theory advances that the Structural Model of Personality, contrary
to prevailing opinion, is an axiomatic, "hard science" structure.
________________________________________
George Hammond
2010-08-04 19:48:34 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Wed, 4 Aug 2010 23:55:56 +1200, "Geopelia"
Post by Geopelia
Post by George Hammond
On Wed, 4 Aug 2010 14:11:05 +1200, "Geopelia"
Post by Geopelia
[Geopelia]
Thank goodness these days we can believe anything we like or nothing at all.
[Hammond]
Herr Schornak keeps claiming that Elsevier Scientific
Publishers never published my paper.
Would <geopelia>, or <neon>, or <darwin123> or <John
Stafford> or ANYBODY reading this message kindly click on
http://tinyurl.com/ygqopj5 and scroll down a couple of
inches and confirm that this webpage is the official
citation of my paper by ELSEVIER SCIENTIFIC PUBLISHERS LTD
on their online publishing catalog called "Science Direct".
Thanks so much, Meister Schornak has been spreading this
fraudulent rumor for years and it is beginning to annoy me.
[Geopelia]
I found it.
The computer wouldn't post some of what I tried to copy, but I think there
is enough here to prove Elsevier Science Ltd published it.
New Ideas in Psychology
Volume 12, Issue 2, July 1994, Pages 153-167
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
doi:10.1016/0732-118X(94)90105-8 | How to Cite or Link Using DOI
Copyright © 1994 Published by Elsevier Science Ltd. All rights
reserved. Cited By in Scopus (1)
Permissions & Reprints
The Cartesian theory: Unification of Eysenck and Gray
References and further reading may be available for this article. To view
references and further reading you must purchase this article.
George E. Hammond
Massachusetts Department of Mental Health, 78 Pleasant Street, Hyannis, MA
02601, U.S.A.
Abstract
This paper advances a new and comprehensive theory of the biological basis
of the Structural Model of Personality. The Cartesian geometry of the brain
is proposed as the origin of the Structural Model. Eysenck's personality
model is identified with the Cartesian structure of the brain. A decussation
in the Papez loop serves to unify Gray's personality model with Eysenck's
model providing strong experimental support. The theory explains the Big-5
model in psychometry which is cited as a direct empirical confirmation. The
Cartesian Theory advances that the Structural Model of Personality, contrary
to prevailing opinion, is an axiomatic, "hard science" structure.
________________________________________
[Hammond]
Thanks for corroborating the ELSEVIER citation.
George Hammond
========================================
GEORGE HAMMOND'S PROOF OF GOD WEBSITE
Primary site
http://webspace.webring.com/people/eg/george_hammond
Mirror site
http://proof-of-god.freewebsitehosting.com
HAMMOND FOLK SONG by Casey Bennetto
http://interrobang.jwgh.org/songs/hammond.mp3
=======================================
Bernhard Schornak
2010-08-02 23:29:02 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by George Hammond
Post by Bernhard Schornak
Post by George Hammond
Post by Bernhard Schornak
Post by George Hammond
Post by George Hammond
[Hammond]
Is the Pope a Catholic?
Nope - he's a pope (belonging to a rope...).
[Hammond]
What's that supposed to be a non sequitur?
Just my humble opinion. I hate to live in Bavaria as
long as this unholy virus is not put into a jail. It
might not be known in the USA (where most christians
are not catholic), but every educated European knows
about his historical background as Great Inquisitor.
He also was involved in corporal punishment of a lot
of children being held in catholic "residential" and
"approved" schools in the borders of his diocese.
Not to speak of his "deeds" as pope, kicking the de-
velopments of the last two centuries back to deepest
Middle Ages. Not to speak of his reactonary books or
public statements.
Sorry, but I only have links to German sites. I just
http://www.newint.org/issue327/worldbeaters.htm
Google for "ratzinger+inquisition" and the likes...
[Hammond]
I am a Protestant and my family has been Protestant for
ten generations as far as I know. My stepsister called me
up in the middle of the night a couple of months ago and
told me that she was converting to Catholicism. I haven't
heard anything about it recently but at the time I wrote it
off to the fact that she is a redhead. That's all I know
about the Catholic Church other than what I've read in a
book.
Okay. I was baptised as Roman Catholic, but left
that organisation as I was 18 - the legal age to
decide this on your own in Germany.
Post by George Hammond
Post by Bernhard Schornak
Post by George Hammond
Post by Bernhard Schornak
Post by George Hammond
[Hammond]
Allen, like Gardiner is not a scientist (e.g. physicist)
nor is he a psychologist or a theologian. You can't expect
a line professional linguist or literature expert or an
"Egyoptologist" to tell you anything new or scientific about
the Egyotian religion.
Actually, I doubt that physicists are interested in
ancient Egypt mythology at all. Metaphysics, as the
name suggests, are outside the scope of physicists.
[Hammond]
that's simply more "Shornak misinformation" something
you're famous for. The fact is the great physicist Thomas
Young was one of the first to decipher the Egyptian
alphabet. Beyond that, Isaac Newton history's most famous
physicist left 5 million written words on the subject of God
and religion. So once again it is clear that you don't know
what you're talking about.
Which was not part of their work as physicists. If
it had been, no one did care about them today, be-
cause they had been ignored by real physicists for
mismatching disciplines held _separately_ for good
reasons. If you read the wiki with care, you might
recognise that Newton clearly denied the "trinity"
and had much trouble with the order of the jesuits
because of his denial.
[Hammond]
Yes it is a fact that Newton vehemently denied the
Trinity. As a matter of fact I consider this to be a prime
piece of evidence that Isaac Newton was not quite as savvy
as people think he was. first of all I'm surprised that a
person of his intellectual ability would take it upon
himself to defy the established religion of the entire
Western world. My conclusion is that Newton had a small
screw loose somewhere in his head, and in addition to that
is the fact that he never got married nor did he seem to be
very interested in women. All in all this points to the
fact, in my humble opinion, that Isaac Newton had a rather
substantial underlying psychological problem. This is
perhaps evidenced by the fact that he had a documented
mental breakdown in his later years.
At any rate, his denial of the Trinity turns out to be a
major scientific debacle in light of the fact that I have
clearly identified the Trinity as the trinary feedback loop
of fundamental cybernetics. Cybernetics of course was
unknown in his day, but for Christ sakes Bernie merely the
existence of the "three branches of government" should be
enough to clue any intelligent scientist into the fact that
there is such a thing as the Trinity!
As you posted above, he >"left 5 million written
words on the subject of God and religion"<. Does
sound like he was a true believer, but preferred
the Arian version?
Post by George Hammond
Post by Bernhard Schornak
Post by George Hammond
Post by Bernhard Schornak
Post by George Hammond
Most "Egyptologists" of the past century have been museum
curators for chrissakes... including Budge. Fact is, a
PHYSICIST (Thomas Young of two slit fame) made the first
breakthrouh in decipering Heiroglyphics. Champollian built
on Young's work.
Akerblad deciphered parts of the Rosetta Stone *12*
years before Young. Young improved Akerblad's work,
but Champollion was the one who came up with a com-
plete translation.
[Hammond]
That's an accurate statement, but is also a statement
that appears in every textbook on the subject and is well
known to everyone. Posting common knowledge for the sake
of hearing yourself talk is an annoying habit if not
deliberate harassment.
Or you just "forgot" to mention that Young neither
began nor finished the work, but just participated
with decipering a few parts of the entire stone?
[Hammond]
yeah but keep in mind the fact that Thomas Young is
responsible for one of the most spectacular scientific
discoveries in the history of physics... namely the famous
"Two Slit Experiment" which is practically a foundation
stone of modern quantum mechanics and is still hotly debated
and actively investigated by modern researchers.
I know this experiment, but did not know that it
is that old. It is amazing that all waves behave
similar, be it water, photons or electrons. If I
look at the pictures: After the slits, all waves
expand as halfwaves as if the incoming particles
would push the particles behind the slit to make
room. Which probably is the proper assumption in
case of water or electrons, but not for photons.
The room behind the slit is filled with water or
electrons (air), for sure, but never with light.
Maybe the photons hit atoms in the air, then are
swallowed by them, but the atoms emit one photon
to stay in a stable state?
Post by George Hammond
For such a theoretical physics powerhouse to identify the
problem of deciphering Heiroglyphics, immediately tells you
that there must be some connection between ancient Egyptian
knowledge and modern physics. And indeed Young was correct,
the ancient Egyptian religion turns out to be the fountain
from which all knowledge about the basic scientific
structure of religion actually originates.... the Sun God,
the animal headed pantheon, the Ankh, and the Djed being the
prime items of interest scientifically.
I doubt Young wrote that.

BTW: I found a list where Young was mentioned as
egyptologist, so I have to correct my assumption
about this topic.
Post by George Hammond
Post by Bernhard Schornak
Post by George Hammond
Post by Bernhard Schornak
Post by George Hammond
In fact here is a picture of a modern Djed pillar from an
http://www.lonebiker.dk/Ausbilleder/6.jpg
The highest level shown is 27 meters.
If this isn't a modern day Djed-pillar I'll eat my hat!
Do you read an entire story out of this JPG image?
As it is a JPG, none of the characters is readable
if you enlarge it to a size where they should. How
did you get that story? Who gives proof that those
markers determine flood heights or anything else?
[Hammond]
Bernie, your argumentative diversion about stupid and
inconsequential stuff is bores the shit out of every one.
http://tinyurl.com/25t74qy
Just scroll down about a page and a half and you'll see the
picture and story. I can't believe that you're actually
going to take the time to check something stupid and obvious
like that out... OBVIOUSLY, someone with my professional
credentials is not to lie about something as stupid as
simple as that. Your incessant argumentative, aggravated
and ignorant naysaying is something too tedious for any
intelligent person to even listen to.
Okay.
Post by George Hammond
Post by Bernhard Schornak
Post by George Hammond
Post by Bernhard Schornak
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nilometer
Does not look like a Djed pillar...
[Hammond]
yeah, well here is a Nileometer that actually is a stone
http://www.touregypt.net/featurestories/nilometerroda.htm
It doesn't have cross bars on it, but it does have cross
marks chiseled into the stone.
Yes. It was build in 715 CE by the Umayad Sultan
Suayman Abd al-Malek. Proves Arabs learned some-
thing from ancient Egypts. Arabs knew much about
using water ingeniuos on their own, though.

Hmm, I first assumed your pillar idea as a quite
good explanation and looked for pillars like you
did. Reading about the Elephantine Nilometer did
change my mind - it is much easier to use stairs
than pillars. The stair version is quite simple,
but very accurate. Ancient Egyptians were really
pragmatic people, no doubt.
Post by George Hammond
Post by Bernhard Schornak
Post by George Hammond
[Hammond]
Another blatant misstatement of fact. Many Djed pillars
made in stone and fired clay were FLAT and looked
EXACTLY like this picture. Quit lying!
You mismatch amulets with the real thing. It isn't
comfortable to wear a sharp egded square object on
your chest. Hence, amulets were flat and had round
edges.
[Hammond]
Bernie, we have more important things to discuss than the
Djed pillar. The fact is the Djed pillar is obviously an
ICONIC SYMBOL and in its final form probably does not
represent ANY specific object, but rather an entire CLASS of
objects which fall into the "Venetian blind" category, and
all of which have the same fundamental and now iconic we
abstracted psychological effect on the human mind. And net
effect is EXACTLY to conjure up a notion of the existence of
"transcendental vision" which is otherwise generally
ascribed to the TRINITY in modern religion.
Whew.... how many times and in how many different ways do
I have to say it?
I probably missed that your "Venetian blind" may
differ from its common meaning. It would be nice
if you give me a link to your definition. Better
to get in touch with the thoughts behind than to
come to wrong conclusions.
Post by George Hammond
Post by Bernhard Schornak
Post by George Hammond
Post by Bernhard Schornak
Post by George Hammond
Post by George Hammond
The kings were an
incarnation of their gods, no one had a right
to question them or measure them against any-
thing.
[Hammond]
You got it backwards... everybody else was measured
relative to the king...not only every lenght was meqasured
relative to the kings foot... everbodies MENTAL
ENLIGHTENMENT was measured relative to his which is WHY he
was responsible for "raising the pillar".
See above. No one was measured against the king, as
no one was measured against the gods and godesses -
you cannot measure mortals against over-beings. The
kings were incarnations of the gods...
[Hammond]
Your statement is not only blatantly stupid, wrong and
impudent, it obviously defies common opinion.
Everyone is always measured against the best in any field.
If the best is given a score of 100, everyone else gets a
score between one and 100.
Absolute perfection, is the perfect score, and we are all
rated on that scale.
Your habit of arguing for arguments sake is rude, ugly
and universally recognized as a common form of harassment,
in the end you're just a heckler.
What you call herassment is called scientific work
in the real world. I pick up arguments and compare
them against scientifically proven facts. If there
is a difference between proven facts and arguments
claiming to replace those proven facts, it is just
a matter of reason to refute that claim if it does
not match with the known facts nor is a reasonable
addition to them.
[Hammond]
Bernie, we are discussing an object the size of the
Titanic... we simply don't have time to argue over every
nut, bolt, screw and rivet in the entire structure. life is
not long enough for that kind of thing. You are violating a
fundamental law of professional etiquette by failing to
recognize the fact that I have 2 degrees in theoretical
physics and therefore I have a right of passage in
professional debate when it comes to elementary nuts and
bolts introductory physics items. You may not like that,
but that's your problem not mine. Those are the excepted
rules.
Oops. Wasn't that the reason why the Titanic did
sink, just because the _graduaded staff_ was too
dumb and mispredicted true danger as unqualified
to do harm to an "unsinkable" ship?
Post by George Hammond
Post by Bernhard Schornak
Post by George Hammond
Post by Bernhard Schornak
Post by George Hammond
Post by George Hammond
BTW: There also were Djed pillars with five
http://www.aegyptologie.com/forum/attachments/DjedCnv0439.jpg
[Hammond]
Yes, obviously... and thanks for that picture. The
actual nileometers probably were telephone pole sized with
10 or more crossbars, since the Nile rose as much as 25 feet
some years. the Djed Symbol is only a stylized iconic
representation of the real thing... it caputres the
"visuo-psychological impact" of the thing.
Only in the Southernmost parts of Egypt. In Memphis
(Mn-nfr, Hwt-k3-pth) it was just 2 meters. I think,
your are a little bit besides the real thing.
[Hammond]
Look, that picture of SETI the first raising the Djed
pillar in the temple at Abdyos shows the Djed pillar to be
just exactly about 2 m tall.
The dimensions of the ritual pillar had to be that
size. The larger the pillar, the more weight. Your
math skills are impressing, so you surely can cal-
culate the maximum weight a single man (in average
condition) will pull with a rope led over a single
roll.
[Hammond]
is the Pope Catholic... the descriptions that I have read
of the raising of the Djed pillar by the Pharaoh suggested
that the ropes blocks and tackle were used and that he had
physical assistance. Just because the picture in the temple
and Abdyos shows him lifting it with his bare hands doesn't
mean that was what actually happened.
But again Bernie, you're arguing trivia simply for the
purpose of being argumentative. You get nothing
constructive to say... you're all about jealous and envious
aggravated heckling.
I remind you of what was written down or painted
or carved onto/into walls. These facts should be
considered as archeologically proven. What we do
beyond traditional scripture is assuming, or, in
the worst case, speculating. Assumptions have to
rely on scripture to be believable, while specu-
lation is trivial guessing what might have been.
Post by George Hammond
Post by Bernhard Schornak
Post by George Hammond
In the early days there
must've been one of these things in every field, every
canal, and every reservoir allowing an instant
assessment of the current water level at a single glance
telling them whether to open the sluice gates and let
more water into the field or not.
Your opinion contradicts Egyptian writings. If the
Nile flood didn't reach the minimum tax level, the
dikes were not broken, at all, leaving the farmers
without water (see carvings in the White Chapel of
Senusret I.).
Only three Nilometers were used: Elephantine, Per-
Hapi and Sema-Behdet (Tell-el-Balamun), where Per-
Hapi was used to define the annual tax.
[Hammond]
maybe only three Nileometers were used for tax purposes,
but we can be sure, absolutely sure, that every farmer and
every landowner along the entire 3000 mile stretch of the
Nile must of had half a dozen of them posted in his fields,
in his canals, and along the riverbank. Look at the Bay of
Fundy for instance or anyplace else where there is an
unusually high tide.... tied markers, Plimsoll lines and
"Nileometers" such as the one that I showed you from
Australia are all over the place.
Only the middle one near the capital was used as
"tax meter", the others were used for statistics
(=> data found in papyrii or on carved stones).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Senusret_I


Seems Egyptians did know the cross

Loading Image...

but just used it for decorative purposes (have a
look at the rear side).


Sidenote - sorry if I sometimes use German names
for kings or places, but my German sources often
do not exist in English, and it is quite hard to
find out the English spelling (e.g. Sethy (Seti)
is Sethos in German literature)...


<snip>
Post by George Hammond
Post by Bernhard Schornak
At least you got the point we are talking science,
not goobledigook.
[Hammond]
you're not qualified to read Einstein's theory, that
doesn't mean that Einstein's theory is "gobbledygook"... all
it means is that you're not qualified to read it.
Do you think you are authorized (by whomever) to
decide what other humans are allowed to read (or
not)? Sorry, but you are a few decades too late,
I did read Einstein's books as a youngster...


<snip>
Post by George Hammond
Post by Bernhard Schornak
Post by George Hammond
[Hammond]
I'm a physicist with credentials to prove it, you are
not. I've published a scientific proof of God in the
peer-reviewed literature.
I was the only one who ever peer-revied it, or are
there any other docoments on the web who ever dis-
cussed your "theory" in detail?
[Hammond]
what are you deaf dumb and blind.... or just ignorant?
the theory was published in a highly respected peer-reviewed
academic journal. That means that three PhD reviewer's of
professorial rank had to read this thing and write a
written review of it and formally recommended for
publication before it was published by the world's premier
scientific publisher Elsevier Science Ltd.
all of this is documented fact and has been posted 1
million times in which you are simply too lazy to check.
Well if you're too lazy to check... then you're not
qualified to post claims that it isn't
http://www.elsevier.com/wps/find/simple_search.cws_home?boost=true&needs_keyword=true&adv=false&action=simple_search&default=default&keywords=hammond&submitTopNav=Search

No George E. Hammond there - did they forget to
mention you? (53 search results for Hammond...)


The self-definition of Noetic Journal states:

------------------------------------------------
"Noetics is the study of mind which utilizes the
rigors of science, the logic of philosophy, and
the humility and absolute truth of theology."
------------------------------------------------
http://www.mindspring.com/~noeticj/purpose.html


Ignoring that there is no plural of rigor, it is
a simple and clear statement. Sciences and theo-
logy are mutual exclusive. Sciences strictly are
based on the scientific method

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_method

while theology is based on beliefs. Believing in
something is a personal choice, but nothing that
could be measured or empirically proven. Objects
which _cannot_ be measured or empirically proven
belong to religions, not to sciences.

A magazine making statements like the quoted one
publishes religious beliefs, and therefore it is
not a scientific journal. There's a well defined
cut between science and religion.

Hence, SPoG is not scientifically peer-reviewed,
but rubber-stamped by a theologist who obviously
did not care about its content at all. Try it at
Elsevier for real - they will refute it.


I considered to put your Djed story to the wider
field of philosophy for the moment - it lacks of
archaeologically evidence to give the Djed a new
meaning beyond scientific findings, but it stays
interesting (I'm still fascinated by Egypt...).


Greetings from Augsburg

Bernhard Schornak
John Stafford
2010-08-02 23:51:36 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Bernhard Schornak
I know this experiment, but did not know that it
is that old. It is amazing that all waves behave
similar, be it water, photons or electrons.
Consider it evidence of the shortcoming of contemporary physics.
George Hammond
2010-08-03 02:22:21 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Mon, 02 Aug 2010 18:51:36 -0500, John Stafford
Post by John Stafford
Post by Bernhard Schornak
I know this experiment, but did not know that it
is that old. It is amazing that all waves behave
similar, be it water, photons or electrons.
Consider it evidence of the shortcoming of contemporary physics.
[Hammond]
Yes.... basically the problem is that there IS NO
rational explanation of WHY the wave-interference pattern
REMAINS even after the light is turned down so low that only
ONE PHOTON AT A TIME is passing through the 2-slit plate. I
mean... how can ONE PHOTON AT A TIME GOING THROUGH ONE SLIT
AT A TIME cause an INTERFERENCE pattern...? This question
has never been adequately explained by moden quantum
mechanics even though a mindless application of the
superposition mathematics gives the right answer.... and it
is THIS FACT that underlies the modern suspicion that
quantum mechanics is an "incomplete theory"......
Thomas Young by the way was the one who invented the
2-slit experiment.... and in his spare time made an early
and historic breakthrough in the deciperment of Egyptian
heiroglyphics. Which goes to show you that a physicist can
be curious about ANYTHING.... even God!
========================================
GEORGE HAMMOND'S PROOF OF GOD WEBSITE
Primary site
http://webspace.webring.com/people/eg/george_hammond
Mirror site
http://proof-of-god.freewebsitehosting.com
HAMMOND FOLK SONG by Casey Bennetto
http://interrobang.jwgh.org/songs/hammond.mp3
=======================================
George Hammond
2010-08-03 00:59:37 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Tue, 03 Aug 2010 01:29:02 +0200, Bernhard Schornak
<GIGANTIC SNIP OF HECKLING OVER TRIVIA>
Post by George Hammond
[Hammond]
what are you deaf dumb and blind.... or just ignorant?
the theory was published in a highly respected peer-reviewed
academic journal. That means that three PhD reviewer's of
professorial rank had to read this thing and write a
written review of it and formally recommended for
publication before it was published by the world's premier
scientific publisher Elsevier Science Ltd.
all of this is documented fact and has been posted 1
million times in which you are simply too lazy to check.
Well if you're too lazy to check... then you're not
qualified to post claims that it isn't
[Schornak]
http://www.elsevier.com/wps/find/simple_search.cws_home?boost=true&needs_keyword=true&adv=false&action=simple_search&default=default&keywords=hammond&submitTopNav=Search
No George E. Hammond there - did they forget to
mention you? (53 search results for Hammond...)
[Hammond
I don't know what the hell that long URL is supposed to be,
but ELSVEIR SCIENTIFIC LTD the world's premier publisher of
academic scientific journals LISTS MY PAPER ON THEIR
OFFICIAL SITE AT:
http://tinyurl.com/ygqopj5
Now quityour lying about my academic credentials and my
peer reviewed publications... it's slander, libel,
aggravated heckling and stalking.
========================================
GEORGE HAMMOND'S PROOF OF GOD WEBSITE
Primary site
http://webspace.webring.com/people/eg/george_hammond
Mirror site
http://proof-of-god.freewebsitehosting.com
HAMMOND FOLK SONG by Casey Bennetto
http://interrobang.jwgh.org/songs/hammond.mp3
=======================================
Bernhard Schornak
2010-08-03 09:38:25 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
George Hammond schrieb:


<snip>
Post by Bernhard Schornak
http://www.elsevier.com/wps/find/simple_search.cws_home?boost=true&needs_keyword=true&adv=false&action=simple_search&default=default&keywords=hammond&submitTopNav=Search
As long as your name is not listed there, there are
no "peer-reviewed documents published by Elsevier".
At least not from you. There are 53 ducuments which
were written by other Hammond's, though.


You neither provided verifiable facts, nor were you
able to offer a plausible theory matching the rules
of serious scientific work. Your argument "I got an
academic grade" doesn't back up any of your claims.
Scientific statements either are false or true, re-
gardless of the persons who made them.

You are not willing to accept scientific methods as
only valid tools to prove / disprove statements, so
it is pointless to continue this "discussion". Take
your diplomas, nail them onto your wall and worship
them five times a day if it makes more sense to you
than to exchange arguments with other people. It is
sad how people waste mental capacities...


Greetings from Augsburg

Bernhard Schornak
George Hammond
2010-08-03 21:30:18 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Tue, 03 Aug 2010 11:38:25 +0200, Bernhard Schornak
<snip>
[Schornak]
http://www.elsevier.com/wps/find/simple_search.cws_home?boost=true&needs_keyword=true&adv=false&action=simple_search&default=default&keywords=hammond&submitTopNav=Search
[Schornak]
As long as your name is not listed there, there are
no "peer-reviewed documents published by Elsevier".
At least not from you. There are 53 ducuments which
were written by other Hammond's, though.
[Hammond]
LIAR LOL LIAR LOL LIAR LOL
LIAR LOL LIAR LOL LIAR LOL
LIAR LOL LIAR LOL LIAR LOL
LIAR LOL LIAR LOL LIAR LOL
LIAR LOL LIAR LOL LIAR LOL
LIAR LOL LIAR LOL LIAR LOL

I don't know what the hell that long URL is supposed to be,
but ELSVEIR SCIENTIFIC LTD the world's premier publisher of
academic scientific journals
LISTS MY1994 PAPER ON THEIR
OFFICIAL WEBSITE AT:
http://tinyurl.com/ygqopj5
"Science Direct" is the official catalog of ALL Elsevier
publications, and MY PEER REVIEWED PAPER is plainly cited at
the above URL. (note scroll down a few inches)
You may be a blind liar, but anyone else can see the
ELSVIER LISTING of my paper, and by the way it says they are
charging $31.50 for a copy of MY COPYRIGHTED PAPER.
LIAR LOL LIAR LOL LIAR LOL
LIAR LOL LIAR LOL LIAR LOL
LIAR LOL LIAR LOL LIAR LOL
LIAR LOL LIAR LOL LIAR LOL
LIAR LOL LIAR LOL LIAR LOL
LIAR LOL LIAR LOL LIAR LOL
========================================
GEORGE HAMMOND'S PROOF OF GOD WEBSITE
Primary site
http://webspace.webring.com/people/eg/george_hammond
Mirror site
http://proof-of-god.freewebsitehosting.com
HAMMOND FOLK SONG by Casey Bennetto
http://interrobang.jwgh.org/songs/hammond.mp3
=======================================
George Hammond
2010-08-03 21:59:16 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Tue, 03 Aug 2010 17:30:18 -0400, George Hammond
Post by George Hammond
On Tue, 03 Aug 2010 11:38:25 +0200, Bernhard Schornak
<snip>
[Schornak]
http://www.elsevier.com/wps/find/simple_search.cws_home?boost=true&needs_keyword=true&adv=false&action=simple_search&default=default&keywords=hammond&submitTopNav=Search
[Schornak]
As long as your name is not listed there, there are
no "peer-reviewed documents published by Elsevier".
At least not from you. There are 53 ducuments which
were written by other Hammond's, though.
[Hammond]
LIAR LOL LIAR LOL LIAR LOL
LIAR LOL LIAR LOL LIAR LOL
LIAR LOL LIAR LOL LIAR LOL
LIAR LOL LIAR LOL LIAR LOL
LIAR LOL LIAR LOL LIAR LOL
LIAR LOL LIAR LOL LIAR LOL
I don't know what the hell that long URL is supposed to be,
but ELSVEIR SCIENTIFIC LTD the world's premier publisher of
academic scientific journals
LISTS MY1994 PAPER ON THEIR
http://tinyurl.com/ygqopj5
"Science Direct" is the official catalog of ALL Elsevier
publications, and MY PEER REVIEWED PAPER is plainly cited at
the above URL. (note scroll down a few inches)
You may be a blind liar, but anyone else can see the
ELSVIER LISTING of my paper, and by the way it says they are
charging $31.50 for a copy of MY COPYRIGHTED PAPER.
LIAR LOL LIAR LOL LIAR LOL
LIAR LOL LIAR LOL LIAR LOL
LIAR LOL LIAR LOL LIAR LOL
LIAR LOL LIAR LOL LIAR LOL
LIAR LOL LIAR LOL LIAR LOL
LIAR LOL LIAR LOL LIAR LOL
[Hammond]
In case your German Internet connection isn't working
correctly, this URL: http://tinyurl.com/ygqopj5
shows the following (be sure to scroll down a few inches)

==================================
New Ideas in Psychology
Volume 12, Issue 2, July 1994, Pages 153-167

Copyright © 1994 Published by Elsevier Science Ltd. All
rights reserved. Cited By in Scopus (1)

The Cartesian theory: Unification of Eysenck and Gray

References and further reading may be available for this
article. To view references and further reading you must
purchase this article.


George E. Hammond

Massachusetts Department of Mental Health, 78 Pleasant
Street, Hyannis, MA 02601, U.S.A.


Available online 6 June 2002.

Abstract
This paper advances a new and comprehensive theory of the
biological basis of the Structural Model of Personality. The
Cartesian geometry of the brain is proposed as the origin of
the Structural Model. Eysenck's personality model is
identified with the Cartesian structure of the brain. A
decussation in the Papez loop serves to unify Gray's
personality model with Eysenck's model providing strong
experimental support. The theory explains the Big-5 model in
psychometry which is cited as a direct empirical
confirmation. The Cartesian Theory advances that the
Structural Model of Personality, contrary to prevailing
opinion, is an axiomatic, “hard science” structure.

Article Outline
• References

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
New Ideas in Psychology
Volume 12, Issue 2, July 1994, Pages 153-167
==================================
[Hammond]
You're a friggin liar Bernie, and this URL:
http://tinyurl.com/ygqopj5
(note scroll down a couple of inches)
which is on ELSEVIERS OFFICIAL WEBSITE
proves it. LIAR!
========================================
GEORGE HAMMOND'S PROOF OF GOD WEBSITE
Primary site
http://webspace.webring.com/people/eg/george_hammond
Mirror site
http://proof-of-god.freewebsitehosting.com
HAMMOND FOLK SONG by Casey Bennetto
http://interrobang.jwgh.org/songs/hammond.mp3
=======================================
Bernhard Schornak
2010-08-04 17:41:10 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
http://www.elsevier.com/wps/find/simple_search.cws_home?boost=true&needs_keyword=true&adv=false&action=simple_search&default=default&keywords=hammond&submitTopNav=Search


You did claim your documents were peer-reviewed and
published by Elsevier, but their search engine does
not find any document written by George E. Hammond.

Your claim is falsified - see link above.

------
Q.E.D.
------


One last question: How many people do you think may
worship a god that is computable with a simple cal-
culator?


Greetings from Augsburg

Bernhard Schornak
John Stafford
2010-08-04 19:24:13 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Bernhard Schornak
http://www.elsevier.com/wps/find/simple_search.cws_home?boost=true&needs_keywo
rd=true&adv=false&action=simple_search&default=default&keywords=hammond&submit
TopNav=Search
You did claim your documents were peer-reviewed and
published by Elsevier, but their search engine does
not find any document written by George E. Hammond.
Your claim is falsified - see link above.
True. Elsevier does not index Hammond's stuff.

Type George E Hammond into the SCIrUS search to the right of the page.

TY - JOUR
AU -
T1 - Volume Contents and Author Index for Volume 12, 1994
PY - 1994
JF - New Ideas in Psychology
VL - 12
IS - 3
SP - i
EP - vii
UR -
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=GatewayURL&_origin=ScienceSearch
&_method=citationSearch&_piikey=0732118X94900124&_version=1&_returnURL=&m
d5=7c3d819371f69348c3bb50c7c510556c
ER -

TY - JOUR
AU - Hammond, G.E.
T1 - The Cartesian theory: Unification of Eysenck and Gray
PY - 1994
JF - New Ideas in Psychology
VL - 12
IS - 2
SP - 153
EP - 167
UR -
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=GatewayURL&_origin=ScienceSearch
&_method=citationSearch&_piikey=0732118X94901058&_version=1&_returnURL=&m
d5=7282736a2aa475f8291005de86ac4c78
ER -
Post by Bernhard Schornak
One last question: How many people do you think may
worship a god that is computable with a simple cal-
culator?
As many as would fit on a pin head.
Bernhard Schornak
2010-08-05 12:28:14 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by John Stafford
Post by Bernhard Schornak
http://www.elsevier.com/wps/find/simple_search.cws_home?boost=true&needs_keywo
rd=true&adv=false&action=simple_search&default=default&keywords=hammond&submit
TopNav=Search
You did claim your documents were peer-reviewed and
published by Elsevier, but their search engine does
not find any document written by George E. Hammond.
Your claim is falsified - see link above.
True. Elsevier does not index Hammond's stuff.
Type George E Hammond into the SCIrUS search to the right of the page.
TY - JOUR
AU -
T1 - Volume Contents and Author Index for Volume 12, 1994
PY - 1994
JF - New Ideas in Psychology
VL - 12
IS - 3
SP - i
EP - vii
UR -
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=GatewayURL&_origin=ScienceSearch
&_method=citationSearch&_piikey=0732118X94900124&_version=1&_returnURL=&m
d5=7c3d819371f69348c3bb50c7c510556c
ER -
TY - JOUR
AU - Hammond, G.E.
T1 - The Cartesian theory: Unification of Eysenck and Gray
PY - 1994
JF - New Ideas in Psychology
VL - 12
IS - 2
SP - 153
EP - 167
UR -
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=GatewayURL&_origin=ScienceSearch
&_method=citationSearch&_piikey=0732118X94901058&_version=1&_returnURL=&m
d5=7282736a2aa475f8291005de86ac4c78
ER -
George's claim was:

-------------------------------------------------
the theory was published in a highly respected
peer-reviewed academic journal. That means that
three PhD reviewer's of professorial rank had to
read this thing and write a written review of it
and formally recommended for publication before
it was published by the world's premier scientific
publisher Elsevier Science Ltd.

[Hammond, 2010-08-02 10:52]
-------------------------------------------------


What I see is a paper published in a journal with
(internal) discussions about psychology and a few
speculative papers. Regardless of the content, no
journal ever peer-reviews any papers. This is not
only a matter of costs, it depends on the limited
amount of qualified peer-reviewers, as well. It's
the job of the editor - most times delegated - to
decide which papers will be published. Sometimes,
some cosmetic work is required to fulfill the one
or other standard (vocabulary and style). Besides
that, most books are peer-reviewed by one person,
in general - a second or even third peer-reviewer
only is consulted if there are doubts. That's the
reason why I only searched for books - scientific
work published as a book always is peer-reviewed,
following international standards (a few flaws in
a row can ruin the reputation of a publisher).

Putting it all together, there is no evidence for
George's claim. If his theory ever had been peer-
reviewed by anyone who received a PhD in physics,
history or egyptology, it had been rejected.

I was interested what P.F. Merenda cited from his
paper (context), but $19.95 for downloading a PDF
is beyond good and bad.
Post by John Stafford
Post by Bernhard Schornak
One last question: How many people do you think may
worship a god that is computable with a simple cal-
culator?
As many as would fit on a pin head.
Depends on the size of the pin?


Greetings from Augsburg

Bernhard Schornak
John Stafford
2010-08-05 13:39:48 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Bernhard Schornak
[...]
What I see is a paper published in a journal with
(internal) discussions about psychology and a few
speculative papers. Regardless of the content, no
journal ever peer-reviews any papers. This is not
only a matter of costs, it depends on the limited
amount of qualified peer-reviewers, as well. It's
the job of the editor - most times delegated - to
decide which papers will be published. Sometimes,
some cosmetic work is required to fulfill the one
or other standard (vocabulary and style). Besides
that, most books are peer-reviewed by one person,
in general - a second or even third peer-reviewer
only is consulted if there are doubts. That's the
reason why I only searched for books - scientific
work published as a book always is peer-reviewed,
following international standards (a few flaws in
a row can ruin the reputation of a publisher).
Putting it all together, there is no evidence for
George's claim. If his theory ever had been peer-
reviewed by anyone who received a PhD in physics,
history or egyptology, it had been rejected.
Apparently true, and that was the affirmation I hoped you would post.

Thank you.
George Hammond
2010-08-05 16:56:59 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Thu, 05 Aug 2010 08:39:48 -0500, John Stafford
Post by John Stafford
Post by Bernhard Schornak
[...]
What I see is a paper published in a journal with
(internal) discussions about psychology and a few
speculative papers. Regardless of the content, no
journal ever peer-reviews any papers. This is not
only a matter of costs, it depends on the limited
amount of qualified peer-reviewers, as well. It's
the job of the editor - most times delegated - to
decide which papers will be published. Sometimes,
some cosmetic work is required to fulfill the one
or other standard (vocabulary and style). Besides
that, most books are peer-reviewed by one person,
in general - a second or even third peer-reviewer
only is consulted if there are doubts. That's the
reason why I only searched for books - scientific
work published as a book always is peer-reviewed,
following international standards (a few flaws in
a row can ruin the reputation of a publisher).
Putting it all together, there is no evidence for
George's claim. If his theory ever had been peer-
reviewed by anyone who received a PhD in physics,
history or egyptology, it had been rejected.
Apparently true, and that was the affirmation I hoped you would post.
Thank you.
[Hammond]
WRONG SUCKER...........you're also a halfwit heckler:

Two independent eyewitnesses have now proven that you
are a CERTIFIED LIAR. Both Stafford and Geopelia have
located my paper on ELSEVIERS website at
http://tinyurl.com/ygqopj5
The paper is also cited fully in Psych. Abstracts and dozens
of other standard catalogs.
As for being peer reviewed IT IS WELL KNOWN AND FULLY
STATED INSIDE THE FRONT COVER OF THE JOURNAL that all papers
are PEER REVIEWED and OF COURSE my paper was peer reviewed
by 3 PhD's and the editor who was a full professor. They
wrote WRITTEN REVIEWS of the paper as REQUIRED and all 4 of
them UNANAMOUSLY recommended they paper for publication...
otherwise it never would have been publsihed!

Bernie, it has now been PROVEN by 2 INDEPENDENT
EYEWITNESSES that you are an intellectual low life, a gutter
snipeing stalker and Internet heckler intent on nothing but
German style cyber-bullying and smearing the illustrious
reputations of outstanidngj professionals such as myself.
And furthermore.... you have failed to answer my proof
in Message-ID: <***@4ax.com>
that you are WRONG AND that the Egyptian Ba-Ka-Akh is in
fact the world's original discovery of the TRINITY!

You're all through Bernie.... you don't know what you are
talking about and now you've been
CAUGHT RED HANDED
IN A VICIOUS LIE.
========================================
GEORGE HAMMOND'S PROOF OF GOD WEBSITE
Primary site
http://webspace.webring.com/people/eg/george_hammond
Mirror site
http://proof-of-god.freewebsitehosting.com
HAMMOND FOLK SONG by Casey Bennetto
http://interrobang.jwgh.org/songs/hammond.mp3
=======================================
John Stafford
2010-08-05 17:26:45 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by George Hammond
Two independent eyewitnesses have now proven that you
are a CERTIFIED LIAR. Both Stafford and Geopelia have
located my paper on ELSEVIERS website at
http://tinyurl.com/ygqopj5
There is an abstract, but to see the paper, one has to purchase it. Why
don't you post it online as a gift to the rest of us?
Post by George Hammond
The paper is also cited fully in Psych. Abstracts and dozens
of other standard catalogs.
Please list.
Post by George Hammond
As for being peer reviewed IT IS WELL KNOWN AND FULLY
STATED INSIDE THE FRONT COVER OF THE JOURNAL that all papers
are PEER REVIEWED and OF COURSE my paper was peer reviewed
by 3 PhD's and the editor who was a full professor.
Cite
Androcles
2010-08-05 17:56:04 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
"John Stafford" <***@droffats.net> wrote in message news:***@supernews.com...
| In article <***@4ax.com>,
| George Hammond <***@notspam.com> wrote:
|
| > Two independent eyewitnesses have now proven that you
| > are a CERTIFIED LIAR. Both Stafford and Geopelia have
| > located my paper on ELSEVIERS website at
| > http://tinyurl.com/ygqopj5
|
| There is an abstract, but to see the paper, one has to purchase it. Why
| don't you post it online as a gift to the rest of us?
|
| > The paper is also cited fully in Psych. Abstracts and dozens
| > of other standard catalogs.
|
| Please list.
|
| > As for being peer reviewed IT IS WELL KNOWN AND FULLY
| > STATED INSIDE THE FRONT COVER OF THE JOURNAL that all papers
| > are PEER REVIEWED and OF COURSE my paper was peer reviewed
| > by 3 PhD's and the editor who was a full professor.
|
| Cite
*plonk*

Do not reply to this generic message, it was automatically generated;
you have been kill-filed, either for being boringly stupid, repetitive,
unfunny, ineducable, repeatedly posting politics, religion or off-topic
subjects to a sci. newsgroup, attempting cheapskate free advertising
for profit, because you are a troll, because you responded to George
Hammond the complete fruit cake, simply insane or any combination
or permutation of the aforementioned reasons; any reply will go unread.

Boringly stupid is the most common cause of kill-filing, but because
this message is generic the other reasons have been included. You are
left to decide which is most applicable to you.

There is no appeal, I have despotic power over whom I will electronically
admit into my home and you do not qualify as a reasonable person I would
wish to converse with or even poke fun at. Some weirdoes are not kill-
filed, they amuse me and I retain them for their entertainment value
as I would any chicken with two heads, either one of which enables the
dumb bird to scratch dirt, step back, look down, step forward to the
same spot and repeat the process eternally.

This should not trouble you, many of those plonked find it a blessing
that they are not required to think and can persist in their bigotry
or crackpot theories without challenge.

You have the right to free speech, I have the right not to listen. The
kill-file will be cleared annually with spring cleaning or whenever I
purchase a new computer or hard drive.
Update: the last clearance was 25/12/09. Some individuals have been
restored to the list.

I'm fully aware that you may be so stupid as to reply, but the purpose
of this message is to encourage others to kill-file fuckwits like you.

I hope you find this explanation is satisfactory but even if you don't,
damnly my frank, I don't give a dear. Have a nice day and fuck off.
George Hammond
2010-08-05 19:33:57 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Thu, 05 Aug 2010 12:26:45 -0500, John Stafford
Post by John Stafford
Post by George Hammond
Two independent eyewitnesses have now proven that you
are a CERTIFIED LIAR. Both Stafford and Geopelia have
located my paper on ELSEVIERS website at
http://tinyurl.com/ygqopj5
There is an abstract, but to see the paper, one has to purchase it. Why
don't you post it online as a gift to the rest of us?
Post by George Hammond
The paper is also cited fully in Psych. Abstracts and dozens
of other standard catalogs.
Please list.
Post by George Hammond
As for being peer reviewed IT IS WELL KNOWN AND FULLY
STATED INSIDE THE FRONT COVER OF THE JOURNAL that all papers
are PEER REVIEWED and OF COURSE my paper was peer reviewed
by 3 PhD's and the editor who was a full professor.
Cite
[Hammond]
Hey Heckler.... first of all you're posting off topic
heckling since it is WELL KNOWN that ELSEVIER'S _New Ideas
In Psychology_ is a high quality well respected academic
PEER REVIEWED JOURNAL.
The peer review process for NIP follows the standard
Elsevier EES (Elsevier Editorial System) of review. A note
about the reviewers is listed here under "Referees":
http://www.elsevier.com/wps/find/journaldescription.cws_home/678/authorinstructions#16000
I didn't suggest any reviewers when I submitted my paper
so the editor appointed 3 reviewers himself.
NO PAPER is EVER published in New Ideas In Psychology
unless it is PEER REVIEWED.
QUIT OFF TOPIC HECKLING SCUMBAG
========================================
GEORGE HAMMOND'S PROOF OF GOD WEBSITE
Primary site
http://webspace.webring.com/people/eg/george_hammond
Mirror site
http://proof-of-god.freewebsitehosting.com
HAMMOND FOLK SONG by Casey Bennetto
http://interrobang.jwgh.org/songs/hammond.mp3
=======================================
John Stafford
2010-08-05 19:52:10 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by George Hammond
On Thu, 05 Aug 2010 12:26:45 -0500, John Stafford
[Hammond]
Hey Heckler.... first of all you're posting off topic
heckling since it is WELL KNOWN that ELSEVIER'S _New Ideas
In Psychology_ is a high quality well respected academic
PEER REVIEWED JOURNAL.
I merely suggested you post the paper, and offer citations.

And how does that early paper relate to SPOG and your redefinition of
Egyptian history?


Why not publish the paper on your website?
George Hammond
2010-08-05 20:30:14 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Thu, 05 Aug 2010 14:52:10 -0500, John Stafford
Post by John Stafford
Post by George Hammond
On Thu, 05 Aug 2010 12:26:45 -0500, John Stafford
[Hammond]
Hey Heckler.... first of all you're posting off topic
heckling since it is WELL KNOWN that ELSEVIER'S _New Ideas
In Psychology_ is a high quality well respected academic
PEER REVIEWED JOURNAL.
I merely suggested you post the paper, and offer citations.
Why not publish the paper on your website?
[Hammond]
forchrissakes.... its BEEN ON MY WEBSITE for years:
http://webspace.webring.com/people/eg/george_hammond/cart.html
Post by John Stafford
And how does that early paper relate to SPOG and your redefinition of
Egyptian history?
[Hammond]
Can't believe you're really interested?

The answer to your question is best summarized by this post
to the 220 members of IDANET a psychology research emai list
and it was also posted to here too:

=========BEGIN QUOTATION===============

PSYCHOMETRY: TWILIGHT OF THE GODS

Richard Wagner composed a very famous tune. Popularly
known as “Here Comes the Bride” it is played at virtually
every wedding in Christendom. He also wrote an opera
entitled Gotterdammerung or the “Twilight of the Gods” and
it is this subject which concerns us here.
It is not common knowledge and in fact it is only known
in very high places that the so called “gods” of
pre-Christian religion (Paganism) were actually what are
today called “Personality Types“. In fact (Hammond 1994,
2003)

NOTE (Hammond 1994) is the ELSEVIER paper

has shown that the “gods” of the ancient Pagan religions are
nothing other than the 2nd-Order Personality eigenvectors
(Personality Types) of modern Psychometry and furthermore
that there are exactly 13 of them and that they are
precisely cubically Intercorrelated (e.g. Thurstone‘s
Boxwise). For the peer published proof of this claim see:
http://tinyurl.com/2b86k7e
or: http://tinyurl.com/27njofa
But back to the story. Even most highly educated ancients
didn’t actually know what the gods were. Cicero for
instance a leading intellect of Rome wrote a tract entitled
De Natura Deorem (On the Nature of the Gods). In this
summary of Greco-Roman theology we discover that Cicero
didn’t have a clue as to what the gods actually were;
whether they were material or invisible, where they lived or
what they did. The book is a debate among learned experts
of the day about the basic existence or nonexistence of the
“gods”. It turns out that none of the experts knew for
certain what the gods were or whether they even existed. It
is therefore truly ironic indeed, that now 2050 years later
modern Psychometry is having the same exact debate all over
again… only this time the gods have been identified as
“Psychometric eigenvectors” rather than more grandiosely as
“gods”. As we shall see in a moment, not only were the
Greco-Roman authorities correct, but modern Psychometry also
turns out to be correct and the 13 2nd-Order eigenvectors of
Personality are in fact IDENTICALLY the 12-Olympian gods of
Paganism. As for the discrepancy between 12 and 13; at
least modern Psychometry, if nothing else, can brag that it
has improved upon the wisdom of the ancients by about 7 % !
Wagner’s Gotterdammerung is taken from an old Norse
legend and the “twilight” of the gods occurs in a final
apocalyptic war between the world’s major personality types.
But fact is stranger than fiction it turns out, and the
prospect that science now behold is that the twilight of the
gods is not to occur in an apocalypse but in a revelation.
Modern science has now discovered that the “gods” originate
in the simple anatomical cleavage geometry of the brain, and
not in the possession of mystically evil or divine powers!
The gods it turns out are biologically ordained to be a
unified complement rather than conflicting adversaries just
as the left hand is complementary to the right!
Now you might wonder why I am bringing up this historical
identification of 2nd-Order Personality Factors with the
gods of Pagan religion. Well, there is even more to the
story. As Psychometrists you are aware that there are
higher order Factors beyond the 2nd-Order. In fact Raymond
B. Cattell the greatest experimentalist to ever investigate
Personality Psychometry not only resolved all 12 of the
2nd-Order Factors and published them in 1973 (in Personality
and Mood By Questionnarie, p 128 Table 21), he also factored
them to the 3rd Order where they turn out to underlie the
Bicameral/2-Party System (Hammond 2003). Amazingly he even
made this intriguing final statement in the paper:

“The correlations among the tertiaries, though
less invariant than among the secondaries, are
reasonably stable, and are set out for those who,
with reinforcements, may wish to proceed to
the fourth order.”

Raymond B. Cattell (1975):
Third Order Personality Structure Evidence from Eleven
Experiments,
J. Multivariate Experimental Personality and Clinical
Psychology 1(3)
118-149 Quotation cited above appears on p 139-140


Ray Cattell never lived to get to the 4th-Order. But I
did, and what I found is this: All of Psychometry stops at
the 4th-Order in a SINGLE Factor. It is easy to identify
the biological cause of this final factor, it turns out to
be the Secular Trend in human growth which has been known
for about 100 years and in this particular case it is the
Secular Trend in human brain growth which causes the final
Factor of all of Psychometry.
Incidentally, I got to the 4th-Order by simply factoring
Cattell’s published 4x4 3rd-Order Intercorrelation matrix.
Interestingly, it was Dr. Paul Barrett our moderator on
IDANET who actually offered to run the modified matrix
through SPSS for me. I still have his original SPSS print
out dated July 1, 1997! The upshot is that while the
2nd-Order Factors are the “gods”, it turns out that the
final, solitary 4th-Order Factor is “God”, with a capital G!
The God of the Bible. Yes, on July 1, 1997 Hammond, Barrett
and another PhD named David Routh (who ran a parallel SPSS
check).. actually produced the WORLD’S FIRST SCIENTIFIC
PROOF OF GOD……a “factor analytic proof of God”!

==============END QUOTE============


[Hammond]
So you can see that the 1994 ELSEVIER paper is the
foundation publiscation of the SPOG and the original
discovery that the so called "gods" of the
Egypto-Greco-Roman pantheon are in fact NOT ARBITRARY
FANTASIES but are in fact SCIENTIFIC QUANTITIES with a
stunning geometrical organization, exactly 13 in number,
which have been measured to 3 significant figures..... and
further more that a simple "factorization" of the 13-gods
produces "God" with a capito G.... the God of the Bible.
Hence..../ I have discovered and PUBLISHED the world's first
scientific proof of God....... and of the "gods"!
========================================
GEORGE HAMMOND'S PROOF OF GOD WEBSITE
Primary site
http://webspace.webring.com/people/eg/george_hammond
Mirror site
http://proof-of-god.freewebsitehosting.com
HAMMOND FOLK SONG by Casey Bennetto
http://interrobang.jwgh.org/songs/hammond.mp3
=======================================
George Hammond
2010-08-05 19:54:29 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Thu, 05 Aug 2010 12:26:45 -0500, John Stafford
Post by John Stafford
Post by George Hammond
Two independent eyewitnesses have now proven that you
are a CERTIFIED LIAR. Both Stafford and Geopelia have
located my paper on ELSEVIERS website at
http://tinyurl.com/ygqopj5
There is an abstract, but to see the paper, one has to purchase it. Why
don't you post it online as a gift to the rest of us?
[Hammond]
Hey asshole.... the paper has been online for years:
http://webspace.webring.com/people/eg/george_hammond/cart.html
========================================
GEORGE HAMMOND'S PROOF OF GOD WEBSITE
Primary site
http://webspace.webring.com/people/eg/george_hammond
Mirror site
http://proof-of-god.freewebsitehosting.com
HAMMOND FOLK SONG by Casey Bennetto
http://interrobang.jwgh.org/songs/hammond.mp3
=======================================
John Stafford
2010-08-05 20:10:25 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by George Hammond
On Thu, 05 Aug 2010 12:26:45 -0500, John Stafford
Post by John Stafford
Post by George Hammond
Two independent eyewitnesses have now proven that you
are a CERTIFIED LIAR. Both Stafford and Geopelia have
located my paper on ELSEVIERS website at
http://tinyurl.com/ygqopj5
There is an abstract, but to see the paper, one has to purchase it. Why
don't you post it online as a gift to the rest of us?
[Hammond]
http://webspace.webring.com/people/eg/george_hammond/cart.html
I look forward to comparing your online version to the published version.

I have to wonder why a reputable publisher would air the following.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
From the Conclusion

"One cannot leave off, however, without mentioning the impact that the
discovery of the Cartesian basis of the structural model is going to
have on other fields of research and how other fields of research are in
turn, going to help confirm the Cartesian Theory, The Cartesian basis
of the BI/2P system has already been mentioned in section IV. In
addition the author has researched the notion that the Four Gospel Canon
of the Bible is in fact the theological identification of the Structural
Model. Indeed, the Cross of Christianity itself is quite likely the
symbolic representation of the Cartesian structure of the mind (Hammond,
1988, 1989). The effects of this discovery on science, religion and
government can be expected to be far reaching."

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
George Hammond
2010-08-05 21:07:07 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Thu, 05 Aug 2010 15:10:25 -0500, John Stafford
Post by John Stafford
Post by George Hammond
On Thu, 05 Aug 2010 12:26:45 -0500, John Stafford
Post by John Stafford
Post by George Hammond
Two independent eyewitnesses have now proven that you
are a CERTIFIED LIAR. Both Stafford and Geopelia have
located my paper on ELSEVIERS website at
http://tinyurl.com/ygqopj5
There is an abstract, but to see the paper, one has to purchase it. Why
don't you post it online as a gift to the rest of us?
[Hammond]
http://webspace.webring.com/people/eg/george_hammond/cart.html
I look forward to comparing your online version to the published version.
[Hammond]
Go ahead and waste your time comparing.... they're world
for word identical.
Post by John Stafford
I have to wonder why a reputable publisher would air the following.
[Hammond]
go ahead and wonder.... what it means is that 4 PhD's
including a full professor thought the statment deserved to
be published in the peer reviewed academic literature,
obvously.
Post by John Stafford
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
From the Conclusion
"One cannot leave off, however, without mentioning the impact that the
discovery of the Cartesian basis of the structural model is going to
have on other fields of research and how other fields of research are in
turn, going to help confirm the Cartesian Theory, The Cartesian basis
of the BI/2P system has already been mentioned in section IV. In
addition the author has researched the notion that the Four Gospel Canon
of the Bible is in fact the theological identification of the Structural
Model. Indeed, the Cross of Christianity itself is quite likely the
symbolic representation of the Cartesian structure of the mind (Hammond,
1988, 1989). The effects of this discovery on science, religion and
government can be expected to be far reaching."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
========================================
GEORGE HAMMOND'S PROOF OF GOD WEBSITE
Primary site
http://webspace.webring.com/people/eg/george_hammond
Mirror site
http://proof-of-god.freewebsitehosting.com
HAMMOND FOLK SONG by Casey Bennetto
http://interrobang.jwgh.org/songs/hammond.mp3
=======================================
John Stafford
2010-08-05 21:10:29 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by George Hammond
[Hammond]
go ahead and wonder.... what it means is that 4 PhD's
(sic)
Post by George Hammond
including a full professor thought the statment deserved to
be published in the peer reviewed academic literature,
obvously.
Hell, I can find four PhDs to approve almost anything.
George Hammond
2010-08-05 21:52:04 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Thu, 05 Aug 2010 16:10:29 -0500, John Stafford
Post by John Stafford
Post by George Hammond
[Hammond]
go ahead and wonder.... what it means is that 4 PhD's
(sic)
Post by George Hammond
including a full professor thought the statment deserved to
be published in the peer reviewed academic literature,
obvously.
Hell, I can find four PhDs to approve almost anything.
[Hammond]
Quit posting off topic crap, moron
========================================
GEORGE HAMMOND'S PROOF OF GOD WEBSITE
Primary site
http://webspace.webring.com/people/eg/george_hammond
Mirror site
http://proof-of-god.freewebsitehosting.com
HAMMOND FOLK SONG by Casey Bennetto
http://interrobang.jwgh.org/songs/hammond.mp3
=======================================
John Stafford
2010-08-05 20:13:37 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by George Hammond
http://webspace.webring.com/people/eg/george_hammond/cart.html
Ah, it was published by Pergamon Press, and not Elsevier.

More digging...
George Hammond
2010-08-05 21:09:11 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Thu, 05 Aug 2010 15:13:37 -0500, John Stafford
Post by John Stafford
Post by George Hammond
http://webspace.webring.com/people/eg/george_hammond/cart.html
Ah, it was published by Pergamon Press, and not Elsevier.
[Hammond]
Pergamon Press then one of the world's largest academic
publishers was bought out by elsevier and Eslvier now holds
the copyright to my paper and is sielling copies for $31.50
apiece.
Post by John Stafford
More digging...
[Hammond]
Too bad you have nothing on topic to say.
========================================
GEORGE HAMMOND'S PROOF OF GOD WEBSITE
Primary site
http://webspace.webring.com/people/eg/george_hammond
Mirror site
http://proof-of-god.freewebsitehosting.com
HAMMOND FOLK SONG by Casey Bennetto
http://interrobang.jwgh.org/songs/hammond.mp3
=======================================
John Stafford
2010-08-06 11:24:57 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by George Hammond
On Thu, 05 Aug 2010 15:13:37 -0500, John Stafford
Post by John Stafford
Ah, it was published by Pergamon Press, and not Elsevier.
[Hammond]
Pergamon Press then one of the world's largest academic
publishers was bought out by elsevier and Eslvier now holds
the copyright to my paper and is sielling copies for $31.50
apiece.
I've now read just about 100 papers from Pergamon. Most are interbred,
self-serving, nonconstructive hogwash. But that's academic show
business. So be it.

Bernhard Schornak
2010-08-05 17:52:14 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by John Stafford
Post by Bernhard Schornak
[...]
What I see is a paper published in a journal with
(internal) discussions about psychology and a few
speculative papers. Regardless of the content, no
journal ever peer-reviews any papers. This is not
only a matter of costs, it depends on the limited
amount of qualified peer-reviewers, as well. It's
the job of the editor - most times delegated - to
decide which papers will be published. Sometimes,
some cosmetic work is required to fulfill the one
or other standard (vocabulary and style). Besides
that, most books are peer-reviewed by one person,
in general - a second or even third peer-reviewer
only is consulted if there are doubts. That's the
reason why I only searched for books - scientific
work published as a book always is peer-reviewed,
following international standards (a few flaws in
a row can ruin the reputation of a publisher).
Putting it all together, there is no evidence for
George's claim. If his theory ever had been peer-
reviewed by anyone who received a PhD in physics,
history or egyptology, it had been rejected.
Apparently true, and that was the affirmation I hoped you would post.
Thank you.
You are welcome!

The mentioned P.F. Merenda citation is worth
further investigation. If someone with a PhD
in psychology cites George in a field study,
I am curious which parts were cited in which
context. I dig a little bit deeper into this
topic, for sure.


Greetings from Augsburg

Bernhard Schornak
George Hammond
2010-08-05 19:50:10 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Thu, 05 Aug 2010 19:52:14 +0200, Bernhard Schornak
[...]
What I see is..............
Regardless of the content, no
journal ever peer-reviews any papers.
[John Stafford]
Apparently true, and that was the affirmation I hoped you would post.
Thank you.
[Shornak]
You are welcome!
[Hammond]
Both Shornak and Stafford are OFF TOPIC HECKLERS AND LIARS
since it is WELL KNOWN that ELSEVIER'S _New Ideas
In Psychology_ is a high quality well respected academic
PEER REVIEWED JOURNAL.
The peer review process for NIP follows the standard
EES (Elsevier Editorial System) of review. A note
about the reviewers for NIP is listed here under "Referees":
http://www.elsevier.com/wps/find/journaldescription.cws_home/678/authorinstructions#16000
In my case the editor prof. Richard Kitchener selected
the 3 PhD reviewers himself. NO PAPER published in _New
Ideas In Psychology_ is EVER or HAS EVER been published
without fullacademic PEER REVIEW scumbag.
QUIT YOUR LYING SCUMBAG
========================================
GEORGE HAMMOND'S PROOF OF GOD WEBSITE
Primary site
http://webspace.webring.com/people/eg/george_hammond
Mirror site
http://proof-of-god.freewebsitehosting.com
HAMMOND FOLK SONG by Casey Bennetto
http://interrobang.jwgh.org/songs/hammond.mp3
=======================================
John Stafford
2010-08-05 20:26:31 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
I have been looking at many things published by Pergamon Press, and it
appears that it was a haven for very strange ideas. Not that they are
wrong, but so very many are definitely not engineering thesis.

Here is one of my favorites so far. The abstract

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

The Extraterrestrial Hypothesis Is Not That Bad
Robert M. Wood
McDonnell Douglas Corporation, Huntington Beach, CA 92647

Abstract-The Extraterrestrial Hypothesis (ETH) explanation of
Unidentified Flying Objects (UFOs) has not been attractive to many
scientists because of the apparent requirement to exceed the speed of
light in making such trips. It is postulated that if the basis of
gravity control systems were discovered, and that if the speed of light
can either be raised or exceeded using such devices, then the pattern of
UFO reports is consistent with the ETH. Recently, five arguments against
the ETH have been advanced by Vallee in this Journal (1990). Each
argument can be countered as follows: (1) thousands of visiting
civilizations account for the wide variety and large number of reports;
(2) the frequently reported similarity to homo sapiens shape may be due
to historical interactions, or due to biological optimization; (3) the
primitive treatment during reported abductions may be the exception from
some less ethical civilizations; (4) the historical extension of the UFO
phenomenon is to be expected; and (5) the near-magical reports of time,
space, and light manipulation is due to high technology. Travel distance
and travel time for constant acceleration and deceleration trips are
displayed graphically, based on the feasibility of hyperoptic gravity
control transportation systems. Convenient astronomical distance
reference points are noted.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Folks, there is lots of money in kook publishing. And plenty of kook
scholars, too.
George Hammond
2010-08-05 21:13:40 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Thu, 05 Aug 2010 15:26:31 -0500, John Stafford
Post by John Stafford
I have been looking at many things published by Pergamon Press, and it
appears that it was a haven for very strange ideas. Not that they are
wrong, but so very many are definitely not engineering thesis.
Here is one of my favorites so far.
<SNIP>
[Hammond]
Quit posting off topic crap.... fact is you have no
scientific qualifications and have nothing on topic to say.
Fact is Pergamon was, and now Elsevier is one of the
world's largest publishers and published MANY leading
academic peer reviewed journals as well as a billion tons of
other stuff.
========================================
GEORGE HAMMOND'S PROOF OF GOD WEBSITE
Primary site
http://webspace.webring.com/people/eg/george_hammond
Mirror site
http://proof-of-god.freewebsitehosting.com
HAMMOND FOLK SONG by Casey Bennetto
http://interrobang.jwgh.org/songs/hammond.mp3
=======================================
Bernhard Schornak
2010-08-05 21:00:51 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by George Hammond
http://www.elsevier.com/wps/find/journaldescription.cws_home/678/authorinstructions#16000
Quote:

----------------------------------------------
Referees

Please submit, with the manuscript, the names,
addresses and e-mail addresses of at least 2
potential referees. Note that the editor
retains the sole right to decide whether or
not the suggested reviewers are used.
----------------------------------------------


Greetings from Augsburg

Bernhard Schornak
John Stafford
2010-08-05 21:11:03 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Bernhard Schornak
Post by George Hammond
http://www.elsevier.com/wps/find/journaldescription.cws_home/678/authorinstr
uctions#16000
----------------------------------------------
Referees
Please submit, with the manuscript, the names,
addresses and e-mail addresses of at least 2
potential referees. Note that the editor
retains the sole right to decide whether or
not the suggested reviewers are used.
----------------------------------------------
Greetings from Augsburg
Bernhard Schornak
Your paper was not published by Elsevier.
George Hammond
2010-08-05 22:07:59 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Thu, 05 Aug 2010 16:11:03 -0500, John Stafford
Post by John Stafford
Post by Bernhard Schornak
Post by George Hammond
http://www.elsevier.com/wps/find/journaldescription.cws_home/678/authorinstr
uctions#16000
----------------------------------------------
Referees
Please submit, with the manuscript, the names,
addresses and e-mail addresses of at least 2
potential referees. Note that the editor
retains the sole right to decide whether or
not the suggested reviewers are used.
----------------------------------------------
Greetings from Augsburg
Bernhard Schornak
Your paper was not published by Elsevier.
[Hammond]
ELSEVIER bought PERGAMON in 1992. My paper was published
in 1994. Originallty it appeared under Pergamon even though
Elsevier owned it. But now ELSEVIER owns the copyright to
my paper, is CURRENTLY publishing my paper and charging
$31.50 a copy.
WUIT POSTING OFF TOPIC CRAP
========================================
GEORGE HAMMOND'S PROOF OF GOD WEBSITE
Primary site
http://webspace.webring.com/people/eg/george_hammond
Mirror site
http://proof-of-god.freewebsitehosting.com
HAMMOND FOLK SONG by Casey Bennetto
http://interrobang.jwgh.org/songs/hammond.mp3
=======================================
Bernhard Schornak
2010-08-05 23:15:40 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by John Stafford
Post by Bernhard Schornak
Post by George Hammond
http://www.elsevier.com/wps/find/journaldescription.cws_home/678/authorinstr
uctions#16000
----------------------------------------------
Referees
Please submit, with the manuscript, the names,
addresses and e-mail addresses of at least 2
potential referees. Note that the editor
retains the sole right to decide whether or
not the suggested reviewers are used.
----------------------------------------------
Greetings from Augsburg
Bernhard Schornak
Your paper was not published by Elsevier.
I prefer to publish my work in public places,
where everyone has free access to it...


Greetings from Augsburg

Bernhard Schornak

--
http://code.google.com/p/st-open/
George Hammond
2010-08-05 21:54:29 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Thu, 05 Aug 2010 23:00:51 +0200, Bernhard Schornak
Post by Bernhard Schornak
Post by George Hammond
http://www.elsevier.com/wps/find/journaldescription.cws_home/678/authorinstructions#16000
----------------------------------------------
Referees
Please submit, with the manuscript, the names,
addresses and e-mail addresses of at least 2
potential referees. Note that the editor
retains the sole right to decide whether or
not the suggested reviewers are used.
----------------------------------------------
Greetings from Augsburg
Bernhard Schornak
[Hammond]
Yeah that's what it says asshole.... and that proves it's a
peer reviewed journal.... and there are a million other
proofs.... that's just the first one I happened on.
QUIT POSTING OFF TOPIC CRAP
========================================
GEORGE HAMMOND'S PROOF OF GOD WEBSITE
Primary site
http://webspace.webring.com/people/eg/george_hammond
Mirror site
http://proof-of-god.freewebsitehosting.com
HAMMOND FOLK SONG by Casey Bennetto
http://interrobang.jwgh.org/songs/hammond.mp3
=======================================
George Hammond
2010-08-05 16:50:29 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Thu, 05 Aug 2010 14:28:14 +0200, Bernhard Schornak
<***@web.de> wrote:

-
Post by George Hammond
-------------------------------------------------
the theory was published in a highly respected
peer-reviewed academic journal. That means that
three PhD reviewer's of professorial rank had to
read this thing and write a written review of it
and formally recommended for publication before
it was published by the world's premier scientific
publisher Elsevier Science Ltd.
[Hammond, 2010-08-02 10:52]
-------------------------------------------------
What I see is a paper published in a journal with
(internal) discussions about psychology and a few
speculative papers. Regardless of the content, no
journal ever peer-reviews any papers. This is not
only a matter of costs, it depends on the limited
amount of qualified peer-reviewers, as well. It's
the job of the editor - most times delegated - to
decide which papers will be published. Sometimes,
some cosmetic work is required to fulfill the one
or other standard (vocabulary and style). Besides
that, most books are peer-reviewed by one person,
in general - a second or even third peer-reviewer
only is consulted if there are doubts. That's the
reason why I only searched for books - scientific
work published as a book always is peer-reviewed,
following international standards (a few flaws in
a row can ruin the reputation of a publisher).
Putting it all together, there is no evidence for
George's claim. If his theory ever had been peer-
reviewed by anyone who received a PhD in physics,
history or egyptology, it had been rejected.
I was interested what P.F. Merenda cited from his
paper (context), but $19.95 for downloading a PDF
is beyond good and bad.
[Hammond]
Two independent eyewitnesses have now proven that you
are a CERTIFIED LIAR. Bot Stafford and Geopelia have
located my paper on ELSEVIERS website at
http://tinyurl.com/ygqopj5
The paper is also cited fully in Psych. Abstracts and dozens
of other standard catalogs.
As for being peer reviewed IT IS WELL KNOWN AND FULLY
STATED INSIDE THE FRONT COVER OF THE JOURNAL that all papers
are PEER REVIEWED and OF COURSE my paper was peer reviewed
by 3 PhD's and the editor who was a full professor. They
wrote WRITTEN REVIEWS of the paper as REQUIRED and all 4 of
them UNANAMOUSLY recommended they paper for publication...
otherwise it never would have been publsihed!

Bernie, it has now been PROVEN by 2 INDEPENDENT
EYEWITNESSES that you are an intellectual low life, a gutter
snipeing stalker and Internet heckler intent on nothing but
German style cyber-bullying and smearing the illustrious
reputations of outstanidngj professionals such as myself.
And furthermore.... you have failed to answer my proof
in Message-ID: <***@4ax.com>
that you are WRONG AND that the Egyptian Ba-Ka-Akh is in
fact the world's original discovery of the TRINITY!

You're all through Bernie.... you don't know what you are
talking about and now you've been
CAUGHT RED HANDED
IN A VICIOUS LIE.
========================================
GEORGE HAMMOND'S PROOF OF GOD WEBSITE
Primary site
http://webspace.webring.com/people/eg/george_hammond
Mirror site
http://proof-of-god.freewebsitehosting.com
HAMMOND FOLK SONG by Casey Bennetto
http://interrobang.jwgh.org/songs/hammond.mp3
=======================================
George Hammond
2010-08-04 20:15:10 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Wed, 04 Aug 2010 19:41:10 +0200, Bernhard Schornak
Post by Bernhard Schornak
http://www.elsevier.com/wps/find/simple_search.cws_home?boost=true&needs_keyword=true&adv=false&action=simple_search&default=default&keywords=hammond&submitTopNav=Search
You did claim your documents were peer-reviewed and
published by Elsevier, but their search engine does
not find any document written by George E. Hammond.
Your claim is falsified - see link above.
------
Q.E.D.
------
[Hammond]
You''re a PROVEN LIAR Bernie, and here is an independant
eyewitness corroboration. My peer reviewed paper published
by ELSEVIER is cited at this URL:
http://tinyurl.com/ygqopj5
<Geopelia> has checked the ELSEVIER link and reported the
following corroboration in Message-ID:
<i3bkgh$vn0$***@news.eternal-september.org>


======GEOPELIA QUOTATION==============
From: "Geopelia" <***@xtra.co.nz>
Subject: Re: Relativistic raising of the Djed-pillar
Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2010 23:55:56 +1200
Message-ID: <i3bkgh$vn0$***@news.eternal-september.org>
rec.org.mensa:486424 sci.physics.relativity:992481
alt.history.ancient-egypt:18818
Post by Bernhard Schornak
On Wed, 4 Aug 2010 14:11:05 +1200, "Geopelia"
Post by Geopelia
[Geopelia]
Thank goodness these days we can believe anything we like or nothing at
all.
[Hammond]
Herr Schornak keeps claiming that Elsevier Scientific
Publishers never published my paper.
Would <geopelia>, or <neon>, or <darwin123> or <John
Stafford> or ANYBODY reading this message kindly click on
http://tinyurl.com/ygqopj5 and scroll down a couple of
inches and confirm that this webpage is the official
citation of my paper by ELSEVIER SCIENTIFIC PUBLISHERS LTD
on their online publishing catalog called "Science Direct".
Thanks so much, Meister Schornak has been spreading this
fraudulent rumor for years and it is beginning to annoy me.
[Geopelia]
I found it.
The computer wouldn't post some of what I tried to copy, but
I think there is enough here to prove Elsevier Science Ltd
published it.

Here you are:

New Ideas in Psychology
Volume 12, Issue 2, July 1994, Pages 153-167
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
doi:10.1016/0732-118X(94)90105-8 | How to Cite or Link
Using DOI
Copyright © 1994 Published by Elsevier Science Ltd.
All rights reserved. Cited By in Scopus (1)
Permissions & Reprints

The Cartesian theory: Unification of Eysenck and Gray

References and further reading may be available for this
article. To view references and further reading you must
purchase this article.

George E. Hammond

Massachusetts Department of Mental Health, 78 Pleasant
Street, Hyannis, MA 02601, U.S.A.

Abstract
This paper advances a new and comprehensive theory of the
biological basis of the Structural Model of Personality. The
Cartesian geometry of the brain is proposed as the origin of
the Structural Model. Eysenck's personality model is
identified with the Cartesian structure of the brain. A
decussation in the Papez loop serves to unify Gray's
personality model with Eysenck's model providing strong
experimental support. The theory explains the Big-5
model in psychometry which is cited as a direct empirical
confirmation. The Cartesian Theory advances that the
Structural Model of Personality, contrary to prevailing
opinion, is an axiomatic, "hard science" structure.
________________________________________

======END GEOPELIA QUOTATION===========

[Hammond]
Notiece the statement:

Copyright © 1994 Published by Elsevier Science Ltd. All
rights reserved.

So there is now EYEWITNESS VERIFICATION that you are LYING
about my peer reviewed paper published by ELSEVIER and that
you continue to LIE about it.
QED YOU ARE A CERTIFIABLE LIAR BERNIE
========================================
GEORGE HAMMOND'S PROOF OF GOD WEBSITE
Primary site
http://webspace.webring.com/people/eg/george_hammond
Mirror site
http://proof-of-god.freewebsitehosting.com
HAMMOND FOLK SONG by Casey Bennetto
http://interrobang.jwgh.org/songs/hammond.mp3
=======================================
Bernhard Schornak
2010-08-05 20:12:51 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
George Hammond wrote:


<vulgar nagging ignored...>
Post by George Hammond
Massachusetts Department of Mental Health, 78 Pleasant
Street, Hyannis, MA 02601, U.S.A.
http://www.mass.gov/?pageID=eohhs2terminal&L=4&L0=Home&L1=Government&L2=Departments+and+Divisions&L3=Department+of+Mental+Health&sid=Eeohhs2&b=terminalcontent&f=dmh_g_mission_goals&csid=Eeohhs2


Mission Statement:

---------------------------------------------------
The Department of Mental Health, as the State
Mental Health Authority, assures and provides
access to services and supports to meet the mental
health needs of individuals of all ages, enabling
them to live, work and participate in their
communities. The Department establishes standards
to ensure effective and culturally competent care
to promote recovery. The Department sets policy,
promotes self-determination, protects human rights
and supports mental health training and research.
This critical mission is accomplished by working
in partnership with other state agencies,
individuals, families, providers and communities.
---------------------------------------------------


-> Were you on their payroll in 1994?

-> As PhD in psychology + physics + theology +
science of history + egyptology?


Greetings from Augsburg

Bernhard Schornak
John Stafford
2010-08-05 20:46:41 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Bernhard Schornak
<vulgar nagging ignored...>
Post by George Hammond
Massachusetts Department of Mental Health, 78 Pleasant
Street, Hyannis, MA 02601, U.S.A.
http://www.mass.gov/?pageID=eohhs2terminal&L=4&L0=Home&L1=Government&L2=Depart
ments+and+Divisions&L3=Department+of+Mental+Health&sid=Eeohhs2&b=terminalconte
nt&f=dmh_g_mission_goals&csid=Eeohhs2
---------------------------------------------------
The Department of Mental Health, as the State
Mental Health Authority, assures and provides
access to services
[...]
-> Were you on their payroll in 1994?
-> As PhD in psychology + physics + theology +
science of history + egyptology?
I would not go there, Bernard. It is a distraction.
Bernhard Schornak
2010-08-05 23:49:06 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by John Stafford
Post by Bernhard Schornak
<vulgar nagging ignored...>
Post by George Hammond
Massachusetts Department of Mental Health, 78 Pleasant
Street, Hyannis, MA 02601, U.S.A.
http://www.mass.gov/?pageID=eohhs2terminal&L=4&L0=Home&L1=Government&L2=Depart
ments+and+Divisions&L3=Department+of+Mental+Health&sid=Eeohhs2&b=terminalconte
nt&f=dmh_g_mission_goals&csid=Eeohhs2
---------------------------------------------------
The Department of Mental Health, as the State
Mental Health Authority, assures and provides
access to services
[...]
-> Were you on their payroll in 1994?
-> As PhD in psychology + physics + theology +
science of history + egyptology?
I would not go there, Bernard. It is a distraction.
I wished no one was dependent on such services.
A frightening thought to end this way.


Greetings from Augsburg

Bernhard Schornak

--
http://thepoolofhumanity.blogspot.com/
George Hammond
2010-08-05 21:22:02 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Thu, 05 Aug 2010 22:12:51 +0200, Bernhard Schornak
Post by Bernhard Schornak
[Schosrnak}
-> Were you on their payroll in 1994?
[Hammond]
HEY STALKER.... quit posting OFF TOPIC STALKER CRAP.
I'm still waiting for your answer to my proof that YOU
ARE WRONG ABOUT THERE BEING NO TRINITY IN THE EGYPTIAN
RELIGION and that in fact the BA-KA-AKH was the EGYPTIAN
TRINITY.
See Message-ID:
<***@4ax.com>
WHEN ARE YOU GOING TO ANSWER THAT POST ?
========================================
GEORGE HAMMOND'S PROOF OF GOD WEBSITE
Primary site
http://webspace.webring.com/people/eg/george_hammond
Mirror site
http://proof-of-god.freewebsitehosting.com
HAMMOND FOLK SONG by Casey Bennetto
http://interrobang.jwgh.org/songs/hammond.mp3
=======================================
Bernhard Schornak
2010-08-06 00:03:49 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by George Hammond
Massachusetts Department of Mental Health, 78 Pleasant
Street, Hyannis, MA 02601, U.S.A.
Again:

Were you on their payroll in 1994?

As PhD in psychology + physics + theology +
science of history + egyptology?


BTW: This is on topic. _You_ claim to be an
expert for the listed faculties. It is
up to you to provide evidence for your
competence in these fields.


Greetings from Augsburg

Bernhard Schornak
Darwin123
2010-07-30 23:11:42 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
        ____
        |      |
=========
        |      |
=========
        |      |
=========
        |      |
        |      |
        |      |
        |      |
       /        \
      /          \
      =====
THE DJED-PILLAR
   The Djed-pillar was a ubiquitous divine symbol in ancient
Egypt.  It ranks perhaps second only to the Ankh as a
religious symbol yet no one knows the origin of the
Djed-pillar.  Budge thought it was a mason's table which I
find incredible while some have suggested it was originally
a Nileometer.
   Doubtlessly the suggestive psychological form of the
object places it in the common "Venetian blind" category
which is well known to evoke a visual nuance of
transcendence.
This is considerably off topic. Egyptian mysticism has nothing
to do with physics, let alone relativity.
Maybe there is a connection in your mind. Tell us how the Djed-
pillar relates to relativity or kindly stop posting this drivel.
George Hammond
2010-07-31 02:23:08 UTC
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Raw Message
On Fri, 30 Jul 2010 16:11:42 -0700 (PDT), Darwin123
Post by Darwin123
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THE DJED-PILLAR
   The Djed-pillar was a ubiquitous divine symbol in ancient
Egypt.  It ranks perhaps second only to the Ankh as a
religious symbol yet no one knows the origin of the
Djed-pillar.  Budge thought it was a mason's table which I
find incredible while some have suggested it was originally
a Nileometer.
   Doubtlessly the suggestive psychological form of the
object places it in the common "Venetian blind" category
which is well known to evoke a visual nuance of
transcendence.
This is considerably off topic. Egyptian mysticism has nothing
to do with physics, let alone relativity.
Maybe there is a connection in your mind. Tell us how the Djed-
pillar relates to relativity or kindly stop posting this drivel.
[Hammond]
Hammond (2003) has published the discovery that the
phenomena we call "God" is actually a relativistic curvature
of reality... i.e. a relativistic curvature of SUBJECTIVE
spacetime; as opposed to Gravity which as we all know is a
relativistic curvature of OBJECTIVE spacetime.
Meanwhile. there is cybernetic loop popularly referred to
as the Trinity which regulates the magnitude of this
curvature of reality in the individual. Abrupt changes in
this curvature are the cause of "miracles" so called. Altho
Xtianity only discovered this cybernetic loop 1500 years
ago, it appears that the Egyptians discovered it at least
4,000 years ago and symbolized it iconically as the
Djed-pillar.
So, this post is part and parcel of the "Relativistic
explanation of God" which I have published in the peer
reviewed literature. Therefore it is an "applied physics"
theory and it is in fact an "applied relativity" theory.
Thank you so much for your gracious magnanimity and kind
forbearance in allowing me to discuss an applied Relativity
proof of God despite its apparent irrelevance to you and
perhaps to the rest of the physics department. Bear in mind
that theire ARE other physicists, some of them recognized
authorities, who would be interested in a scientific (indeed
Relativistic) explanation and proof of God.
G. Hammond
M.S. Physics
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GEORGE HAMMOND'S PROOF OF GOD WEBSITE
Primary site
http://webspace.webring.com/people/eg/george_hammond
Mirror site
http://proof-of-god.freewebsitehosting.com
HAMMOND FOLK SONG by Casey Bennetto
http://interrobang.jwgh.org/songs/hammond.mp3
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