Discussion:
Moon's lunar tug twice a day on Noahs Flood
(too old to reply)
Elijahovah
2009-06-01 12:40:25 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Indian Ocean Tsunami
reveals Lunar Flood Rate


In the Indian Ocean a fault or crack existed in the ocean flood.
Then in 2004 on Christmas Day Dec 25 an earthquake occurred due
causing one side of the fault to thrust up in less than 30 minutes to
a height of 45 feet for 200 miles long. This forced and shoved a wall
of water out across the ocean, not just on its surface to level the
ocean out, but within the body of water from sea floor to surface in a
shockwave producing a 30 foot wave on the surface that would strike
3000 miles of coastline. It happened in front of the eyes of
seismographs and satellites and was totally predictable as a wave of
destruction after the quake event.
The events that Noah predicted, and of predicting Sodom and
events Moses predicted are very small events in number to the millions
of death causing events to all humans for 6000 years. But they prove
predictable. Many therefore choose to believe that divine or valuable
sacred and holy knowledge is strictly direct from God in a miraculous
personal contact manner or way. They refuse to believe that God is
knowledge for all men. It is the original issue of whether God has
created all things as he wants them to be, untampered by men, or he
accomplishes things thru men. The concept prevails that God chooses to
do things right without men, and that man should leave things alone,
rather than destroy everything, because man cannot be like God and do
things right. It ignores God using a Christ or a vessel to accomplish
things. It also ignores Jehovah proving that he created Man in his
image to be like him in being creative and learning and working and
building as he displays with all animals carrying out works. This is
why the division in perspective also exists with man’s view of
animals. Are animals all destructive, or are they all constructive? Or
who should control all this?
With this in mind we learn that everything has process. A
mechanical and spiritual process of building or destroying. Science
helps us to see that much of what we regard as destruction is actually
a process to breakdown and destroy all things to build a surface or
topsoil. As Jesus said (referring to having your cake or eating your
cake), so much you cannot have both ways, you must sacrifice or lose
the seed to grow the tree. You play the risk that planting the seed,
it may rot, or sprout then dry up. It is a coin that will either grow
interest or sit doing nothing but give someone pride they own it.
Knowledge which is gained after events were ignored are valuable
for the future to avoid being that way again. As 20/20 hindsight, all
is not shame. It can save the future. Because the Flood of Noah was
not a crushing smashing totally destructive force which would smash
the ark and break it in two, and because it was not an event that
would smash whales and dolphins and sea life to permanent death
requiring Noah to have two of all kinds (no matter how many
Creationists wish to demand Genesis words to be exact detail when
stating he must save all breathers with breath of life), we know the
Flood did not come in depths of 425 nor 275 feet per day for 40 days.
The truth Jehovah himself reveals outside the Bible yet discovered
only by the data that Bible gives in Genesis is the continents dropped
80 feet per day for 150 days.
Accepting this, we are given the warning by Jehovah in the same
way he has warned us by striking the planet Jupiter with a comet.
Namely, he has given us the Indian Ocean tsunami by earthquake. That
tsunami was a single wave. But the Flood kept coming and coming and
coming. Why? Because the tectonics like the Indian Ocean kept rising
the ocean floor and rising and rising and rising while it kept
collapsing the continents more and more and more. This means the 80
feet per day is not a water flow figure rate but rather one of land
mass movement due to magma melting and moving and flowing under
ground. The total mantle surface under the crust of the whole planet
is not going to flow 100s of miles per hour. Watch any volcano flow
and most of them are escapable, especially with God’s blessing of
modern vehicles. Creationists will not only fabricate this scenario to
push the seven continents apart during the Flood, they even dare to
say this is an event for postFlood man walking the earth and dividing
the continents during Peleg’s days. (Put your seat belts, Doctor
DooLittle’s floating island is speed-boating again! No intent to mock
Creationism as if atheistic science doesn’t throw equally farfetched
in delusions.) But the fact remains all things are calculable. And in
this case, the question is at what rate does magma flow and is this
steady or is this pulsating. The Indian Ocean event is the answer. It
was basically instant, a pulse, a sudden jarring. So then how often
was this sudden jarring of Noah’s Flood?
The answer is in how high this fault lifted; it was 45 feet. This
tells us that half of 80 feet per day occurred twice a day. By melting
the mantle under the crust, the Earth becomes susceptible to the tidal
forces of the moon and Earth swinging around each other. (Most people
do not know that the moon does not orbit around the center of the
Earth, but rather under the Earth’s surface facing the moon is the
point of Earth /moon center of mass where Earth and Moon orbit each
other, or swing around each other. This forces pulls crust and mantle
and earth just as much as it pulls water to make high tides. An
asteroid impact melting the mantle it will push up thin one mile ocean
floors before 12 mile land masses. And this will cause the mantle to
continue to melt due to release of weight upon it. This then causes a
flow of magma to the dome under the sea floor, which will continue
meltdown until it reaches center of continents. Then collapse! In
seven days is what Genesis says. Again the meltdown rate of 7 days to
center of each individual continent is totally coincidental and
unrelated to the fact that water vapor canopy collapse also reached
Asia 7 days after impact.
Can man predict this? Well, Shem (or Melchizedek king of
righteousness after Noah died) was 550 years old when the prediction
of Sodom was made and came true. And the person had to have been right
about many predictions because the Bible calls him Jehovah which means
the one whose words prove always true. As you can see though, making a
prediction does not mean you are always correct in all things. So many
atheists and evangelists will jump on the words of Moses claiming they
mean if one thing fails then nothing the man says is of a true
prophet. If this is the proper interpretation, then Moses himself
should have been deserted or killed when things he did were wrong or
failed. The accounts clearly draw a division between what the people
thought were wrong (such as his having a nonJew Cushite wife) and what
he admits to as wrong (such as credit saying look what I have done for
you). For a certainty, when a man will not admit untrue faults of
liars picking for fault, then when that person does a wrong, the whole
world is told of it. No one allows anyone to be regarded as perfect
until they too can claim their sins have been washed away equally as
righteous. Until then they keep killing christ.
So then does the data fit the Flood? You have the moon pulling up
on ocean floor a height of 40 feet of crust every 12.5 hours so that
mid-ocean high tide lifts while at the same moment low tide effect is
over the crust and causes another 40 foot collapse. This answers the
question of rate being steady or pulsating during the Flood. The moon
being at 90° right angles to Mount Ararat and thus at moonrise or moon
set causes the collapse of 40 feet at that hour. The tidal force
assists the pull of magma from under continent to under ocean.
As Genesis explains, this effect has ended in 150 days or
earlier. The water is draining as of that span, and thus proving the
continents are rising back up. But it was another 7 months before
Ararat air became too thin for preFlood humans to breathe. And the
December 1 winter (Gregorian Nov 11) was too cold to stay on the ark.
In celebration of New Years Day two months earlier by removing the
door, the ground was too muddy to get out, (Oct 6, Gregorian Sep 16,
which coincidentally happened to be absent new moon) now 56 days later
had to be evacuated quickly. And so they did so before absent moon
arrived three days later.
Thus in the following chart the time of moon rise and moonset are
listed for the 40-foot uplifts of ocean floor causing 40-foot
continent collapse 300 times in 150 days. Thanks to the event of the
Indian Ocean, Jehovah has once again proven how everything occurs, as
those laws always will. This proves that if angels before the Flood
could not see how the Flood could occur, the reason is because they
had blinded themselves. But it also is due to perhaps Noah knew all
the water above required an ark, even globally as only 40 feet of
water vapor canopy.
u***@hotmail.com
2009-06-01 14:11:32 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Elijahovah
Indian Ocean Tsunami
reveals Lunar Flood Rate
     In the Indian Ocean a fault or crack existed in the ocean flood.
Then in 2004 on Christmas Day Dec 25 an earthquake occurred due
causing one side of the fault to thrust up in less than 30 minutes to
a height of 45 feet for 200 miles long. This forced and shoved a wall
of water out across the ocean, not just on its surface to level the
ocean out, but within the body of water from sea floor to surface in a
shockwave producing a 30 foot wave on the surface that would strike
3000 miles of coastline. It happened in front of the eyes of
seismographs and satellites and was totally predictable as a wave of
destruction after the quake event.
     The events that Noah predicted, and of predicting Sodom and
events Moses predicted are very small events in number to the millions
of death causing events to all humans for 6000 years. But they prove
predictable. Many therefore choose to believe that divine or valuable
sacred and holy knowledge is strictly direct from God in a miraculous
personal contact manner or way. They refuse to believe that God is
knowledge for all men. It is the original issue of whether God has
created all things as he wants them to be, untampered by men, or he
accomplishes things thru men. The concept prevails that God chooses to
do things right without men, and that man should leave things alone,
rather than destroy everything, because man cannot be like God and do
things right. It ignores God using a Christ or a vessel to accomplish
things. It also ignores Jehovah proving that he created Man in his
image to be like him in being creative and learning and working and
building as he displays with all animals carrying out works. This is
why the division in perspective also exists with man’s view of
animals. Are animals all destructive, or are they all constructive? Or
who should control all this?
     With this in mind we learn that everything has process. A
mechanical and spiritual process of building or destroying. Science
helps us to see that much of what we regard as destruction is actually
a process to breakdown and destroy all things to build a surface or
topsoil. As Jesus said (referring to having your cake or eating your
cake), so much you cannot have both ways, you must sacrifice or lose
the seed to grow the tree. You play the risk that planting the seed,
it may rot, or sprout then dry up. It is a coin that will either grow
interest or sit doing nothing but give someone pride they own it.
     Knowledge which is gained after events were ignored are valuable
for the future to avoid being that way again. As 20/20 hindsight, all
is not shame. It can save the future. Because the Flood of Noah was
not a crushing smashing totally destructive force which would smash
the ark and break it in two, and because it was not an event that
would smash whales and dolphins and sea life to permanent death
requiring Noah to have two of all kinds (no matter how many
Creationists wish to demand Genesis words to be exact detail when
stating he must save all breathers with breath of life), we know the
Flood did not come in depths of 425 nor 275 feet per day for 40 days.
The truth Jehovah himself reveals outside the Bible yet discovered
only by the data that Bible gives in Genesis is the continents dropped
80 feet per day for 150 days.
     Accepting this, we are given the warning by Jehovah in the same
way he has warned us by striking the planet Jupiter with a comet.
Namely, he has given us the Indian Ocean tsunami by earthquake. That
tsunami was a single wave. But the Flood kept coming and coming and
coming. Why? Because the tectonics like the Indian Ocean kept rising
the ocean floor and rising and rising and rising while it kept
collapsing the continents more and more and more. This means the 80
feet per day is not a water flow figure rate but rather one of land
mass movement due to magma melting and moving and flowing under
ground. The total mantle surface under the crust of the whole planet
is not going to flow 100s of miles per hour. Watch any volcano flow
and most of them are escapable, especially with God’s blessing of
modern vehicles. Creationists will not only fabricate this scenario to
push the seven continents apart during the Flood, they even dare to
say this is an event for postFlood man walking the earth and dividing
the continents during Peleg’s days. (Put your seat belts, Doctor
DooLittle’s floating island is speed-boating again! No intent to mock
Creationism as if atheistic science doesn’t throw equally farfetched
in delusions.) But the fact remains all things are calculable. And in
this case, the question is at what rate does magma flow and is this
steady or is this pulsating. The Indian Ocean event is the answer. It
was basically instant, a pulse, a sudden jarring. So then how often
was this sudden jarring of Noah’s Flood?
     The answer is in how high this fault lifted; it was 45 feet. This
tells us that half of 80 feet per day occurred twice a day. By melting
the mantle under the crust, the Earth becomes susceptible to the tidal
forces of the moon and Earth swinging around each other. (Most people
do not know that the moon does not orbit around the center of the
Earth, but rather under the Earth’s surface facing the moon is the
point of Earth /moon center of mass where Earth and Moon orbit each
other, or swing around each other. This forces pulls crust and mantle
and earth just as much as it pulls water to make high tides. An
asteroid impact melting the mantle it will push up thin one mile ocean
floors before 12 mile land masses. And this will cause the mantle to
continue to melt due to release of weight upon it. This then causes a
flow of magma to the dome under the sea floor, which will continue
meltdown until it reaches center of continents. Then collapse! In
seven days is what Genesis says. Again the meltdown rate of 7 days to
center of each individual continent is totally coincidental and
unrelated to the fact that water vapor canopy collapse also reached
Asia 7 days after impact.
     Can man predict this? Well, Shem (or Melchizedek king of
righteousness after Noah died) was 550 years old when the prediction
of Sodom was made and came true. And the person had to have been right
about many predictions because the Bible calls him Jehovah which means
the one whose words prove always true. As you can see though, making a
prediction does not mean you are always correct in all things. So many
atheists and evangelists will jump on the words of Moses claiming they
mean if one thing fails then nothing the man says is of a true
prophet. If this is the proper interpretation, then Moses himself
should have been deserted or killed when things he did were wrong or
failed. The accounts clearly draw a division between what the people
thought were wrong (such as his having a nonJew Cushite wife) and what
he admits to as wrong (such as credit saying look what I have done for
you). For a certainty, when a man will not admit untrue faults of
liars picking for fault, then when that person does a wrong, the whole
world is told of it. No one allows anyone to be regarded as perfect
until they too can claim their sins have been washed away equally as
righteous. Until then they keep killing christ.
     So then does the data fit the Flood? You have the moon pulling up
on ocean floor a height of 40 feet of crust every 12.5 hours so that
mid-ocean high tide lifts  while at the same moment low tide effect is
over the crust and causes another 40 foot collapse. This answers the
question of rate being steady or pulsating during the Flood. The moon
being at 90° right angles to Mount Ararat and thus at moonrise or moon
set causes the collapse of 40 feet at that hour. The tidal force
assists the pull of magma from under continent to under ocean.
     As Genesis explains, this effect has ended in 150 days or
earlier. The water is draining as of that span, and thus proving the
continents are rising back up. But it was another 7 months before
Ararat air became too thin for preFlood humans to breathe. And the
December 1 winter (Gregorian Nov 11) was too cold to stay on the ark.
In celebration of New Years Day two months earlier by removing the
door, the ground was too muddy to get out, (Oct 6, Gregorian Sep 16,
which coincidentally happened to be absent new moon) now 56 days later
had to be evacuated quickly. And so they did so before absent moon
arrived three days later.
     Thus in the following chart the time of moon rise and moonset are
listed for the 40-foot uplifts of ocean floor causing 40-foot
continent collapse 300 times in 150 days. Thanks to the event of the
Indian Ocean, Jehovah has once again proven how everything occurs, as
those laws always will. This proves that if angels before the Flood
could not see how the Flood could occur, the reason is because they
had blinded themselves. But it also is due to perhaps Noah knew all
the water above required an ark, even globally as only 40 feet of
water vapor canopy.
I'm sorry; I want to respond but I can't because I died back in April,
when God destroyed civilization.

Kermit
Greg G.
2009-06-02 01:49:36 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by u***@hotmail.com
Post by Elijahovah
Indian Ocean Tsunami
reveals Lunar Flood Rate
     In the Indian Ocean a fault or crack existed in the ocean flood.
Then in 2004 on Christmas Day Dec 25 an earthquake occurred due
causing one side of the fault to thrust up in less than 30 minutes to
a height of 45 feet for 200 miles long. This forced and shoved a wall
of water out across the ocean, not just on its surface to level the
ocean out, but within the body of water from sea floor to surface in a
shockwave producing a 30 foot wave on the surface that would strike
3000 miles of coastline. It happened in front of the eyes of
seismographs and satellites and was totally predictable as a wave of
destruction after the quake event.
     The events that Noah predicted, and of predicting Sodom and
events Moses predicted are very small events in number to the millions
of death causing events to all humans for 6000 years. But they prove
predictable. Many therefore choose to believe that divine or valuable
sacred and holy knowledge is strictly direct from God in a miraculous
personal contact manner or way. They refuse to believe that God is
knowledge for all men. It is the original issue of whether God has
created all things as he wants them to be, untampered by men, or he
accomplishes things thru men. The concept prevails that God chooses to
do things right without men, and that man should leave things alone,
rather than destroy everything, because man cannot be like God and do
things right. It ignores God using a Christ or a vessel to accomplish
things. It also ignores Jehovah proving that he created Man in his
image to be like him in being creative and learning and working and
building as he displays with all animals carrying out works. This is
why the division in perspective also exists with man’s view of
animals. Are animals all destructive, or are they all constructive? Or
who should control all this?
     With this in mind we learn that everything has process. A
mechanical and spiritual process of building or destroying. Science
helps us to see that much of what we regard as destruction is actually
a process to breakdown and destroy all things to build a surface or
topsoil. As Jesus said (referring to having your cake or eating your
cake), so much you cannot have both ways, you must sacrifice or lose
the seed to grow the tree. You play the risk that planting the seed,
it may rot, or sprout then dry up. It is a coin that will either grow
interest or sit doing nothing but give someone pride they own it.
     Knowledge which is gained after events were ignored are valuable
for the future to avoid being that way again. As 20/20 hindsight, all
is not shame. It can save the future. Because the Flood of Noah was
not a crushing smashing totally destructive force which would smash
the ark and break it in two, and because it was not an event that
would smash whales and dolphins and sea life to permanent death
requiring Noah to have two of all kinds (no matter how many
Creationists wish to demand Genesis words to be exact detail when
stating he must save all breathers with breath of life), we know the
Flood did not come in depths of 425 nor 275 feet per day for 40 days.
The truth Jehovah himself reveals outside the Bible yet discovered
only by the data that Bible gives in Genesis is the continents dropped
80 feet per day for 150 days.
     Accepting this, we are given the warning by Jehovah in the same
way he has warned us by striking the planet Jupiter with a comet.
Namely, he has given us the Indian Ocean tsunami by earthquake. That
tsunami was a single wave. But the Flood kept coming and coming and
coming. Why? Because the tectonics like the Indian Ocean kept rising
the ocean floor and rising and rising and rising while it kept
collapsing the continents more and more and more. This means the 80
feet per day is not a water flow figure rate but rather one of land
mass movement due to magma melting and moving and flowing under
ground. The total mantle surface under the crust of the whole planet
is not going to flow 100s of miles per hour. Watch any volcano flow
and most of them are escapable, especially with God’s blessing of
modern vehicles. Creationists will not only fabricate this scenario to
push the seven continents apart during the Flood, they even dare to
say this is an event for postFlood man walking the earth and dividing
the continents during Peleg’s days. (Put your seat belts, Doctor
DooLittle’s floating island is speed-boating again! No intent to mock
Creationism as if atheistic science doesn’t throw equally farfetched
in delusions.) But the fact remains all things are calculable. And in
this case, the question is at what rate does magma flow and is this
steady or is this pulsating. The Indian Ocean event is the answer. It
was basically instant, a pulse, a sudden jarring. So then how often
was this sudden jarring of Noah’s Flood?
     The answer is in how high this fault lifted; it was 45 feet. This
tells us that half of 80 feet per day occurred twice a day. By melting
the mantle under the crust, the Earth becomes susceptible to the tidal
forces of the moon and Earth swinging around each other. (Most people
do not know that the moon does not orbit around the center of the
Earth, but rather under the Earth’s surface facing the moon is the
point of Earth /moon center of mass where Earth and Moon orbit each
other, or swing around each other. This forces pulls crust and mantle
and earth just as much as it pulls water to make high tides. An
asteroid impact melting the mantle it will push up thin one mile ocean
floors before 12 mile land masses. And this will cause the mantle to
continue to melt due to release of weight upon it. This then causes a
flow of magma to the dome under the sea floor, which will continue
meltdown until it reaches center of continents. Then collapse! In
seven days is what Genesis says. Again the meltdown rate of 7 days to
center of each individual continent is totally coincidental and
unrelated to the fact that water vapor canopy collapse also reached
Asia 7 days after impact.
     Can man predict this? Well, Shem (or Melchizedek king of
righteousness after Noah died) was 550 years old when the prediction
of Sodom was made and came true. And the person had to have been right
about many predictions because the Bible calls him Jehovah which means
the one whose words prove always true. As you can see though, making a
prediction does not mean you are always correct in all things. So many
atheists and evangelists will jump on the words of Moses claiming they
mean if one thing fails then nothing the man says is of a true
prophet. If this is the proper interpretation, then Moses himself
should have been deserted or killed when things he did were wrong or
failed. The accounts clearly draw a division between what the people
thought were wrong (such as his having a nonJew Cushite wife) and what
he admits to as wrong (such as credit saying look what I have done for
you). For a certainty, when a man will not admit untrue faults of
liars picking for fault, then when that person does a wrong, the whole
world is told of it. No one allows anyone to be regarded as perfect
until they too can claim their sins have been washed away equally as
righteous. Until then they keep killing christ.
     So then does the data fit the Flood? You have the moon pulling up
on ocean floor a height of 40 feet of crust every 12.5 hours so that
mid-ocean high tide lifts  while at the same moment low tide effect is
over the crust and causes another 40 foot collapse. This answers the
question of rate being steady or pulsating during the Flood. The moon
being at 90° right angles to Mount Ararat and thus at moonrise or moon
set causes the collapse of 40 feet at that hour. The tidal force
assists the pull of magma from under continent to under ocean.
     As Genesis explains, this effect has ended in 150 days or
earlier. The water is draining as of that span, and thus proving the
continents are rising back up. But it was another 7 months before
Ararat air became too thin for preFlood humans to breathe. And the
December 1 winter (Gregorian Nov 11) was too cold to stay on the ark.
In celebration of New Years Day two months earlier by removing the
door, the ground was too muddy to get out, (Oct 6, Gregorian Sep 16,
which coincidentally happened to be absent new moon) now 56 days later
had to be evacuated quickly. And so they did so before absent moon
arrived three days later.
     Thus in the following chart the time of moon rise and moonset are
listed for the 40-foot uplifts of ocean floor causing 40-foot
continent collapse 300 times in 150 days. Thanks to the event of the
Indian Ocean, Jehovah has once again proven how everything occurs, as
those laws always will. This proves that if angels before the Flood
could not see how the Flood could occur, the reason is because they
had blinded themselves. But it also is due to perhaps Noah knew all
the water above required an ark, even globally as only 40 feet of
water vapor canopy.
I'm sorry; I want to respond but I can't because I died back in April,
when God destroyed civilization.
Kermit
I want to respond, too, but all my ancestors drown in the Flood.
[M]adman
2009-06-02 03:48:44 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by u***@hotmail.com
Post by Elijahovah
Indian Ocean Tsunami
reveals Lunar Flood Rate
In the Indian Ocean a fault or crack existed in the ocean flood.
[cut]
Post by u***@hotmail.com
I'm sorry; I want to respond but I can't because I died back in April,
when God destroyed civilization.
Kermit
If you had been paying attention, which is seldom as I often point out, you
would notice that within all of Eliah's posts there is always a remarkable
statement or two. Statements that are 100% accurate and should be
considered. But you take the wide road and want to say something witty
instead of trying to perceive what the person is actually trying to
communicate.

In this case, within Eliah's seemingly incoherent sentences you missed a
point of interest.

That point is: "we learn that everything has process. A mechanical and
spiritual process of building or destroying."

Everything on this planet goes through a cycle of building and destroying Of
creating (building) or dying (destroying). The best example would be the
cycle of life and death. There are others. The earth rotates around the sun.
THAT is a cycle. Winter, then spring, then summer then fall...completes a
cycle. From seed time to harvest time then back to seed is a cycle. You
sleep then you awake; Another cycle. You breathe in air then exhale carbon
dioxide. Therefore the cycle of breath is complete.

This is ALL addressed IN the bible. Here is one example::

ECC 3:1 To every [thing there is] a season, and a time to every purpose
under the heaven:
ECC 3:2 A time to be born, and a time to die; a time to plant, and a time
to pluck up [that which is] planted;
ECC 3:3 A time to kill, and a time to heal; a time to break down, and a
time to build up;
ECC 3:4 A time to weep, and a time to laugh; a time to mourn, and a time
to dance;
ECC 3:5 A time to cast away stones, and a time to gather stones together;
a time to embrace, and a time to refrain from embracing;
ECC 3:6 A time to get, and a time to lose; a time to keep, and a time to
cast away;
ECC 3:7 A time to rend, and a time to sew; a time to keep silence, and a
time to speak;
ECC 3:8 A time to love, and a time to hate; a time of war, and a time of
peace.

By viewing everything from a single scientific perspective, you may
understand the "mechanical process of building or destroying." Because there
are more then one perspective to viewing and understanding evidences.

You miss the "spiritual process of building or destroying." Just as you
missed this point in Elijahovah's post.

adman.
Elijahovah
2009-06-02 16:46:52 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Adman i thank you for the defense.
If they get something out of what i say
perhaos you help. Or perhaps you just prove
that they dont want to.
But I reposted this to correect YOU too in my intent
of clarifying. What you say of them is true.
But it doesnt mean you grasped my point.
I could never be like Jesus was on earth and
tolerate all 12 dumb apostles i picked.
So perhaps be glad i am not that one.
Dr. Acula
2009-06-02 18:32:04 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Elijahovah
Adman i thank you for the defense.
If they get something out of what i say
perhaos you help. Or perhaps you just prove
that they dont want to.
But I reposted this to correect YOU too in my intent
of clarifying. What you say of them is true.
But it doesnt mean you grasped my point.
I could never be like Jesus was on earth and
tolerate all 12 dumb apostles i picked.
So perhaps be glad i am not that one.
I wish I could read and reply to your posts but my computer was struck
by a meteor which killed me and stuff.
[M]adman
2009-06-02 19:32:29 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Elijahovah
Adman i thank you for the defense.
If they get something out of what i say
perhaos you help. Or perhaps you just prove
that they dont want to.
But I reposted this to correect YOU too in my intent
of clarifying. What you say of them is true.
But it doesnt mean you grasped my point.
I could never be like Jesus was on earth and
tolerate all 12 dumb apostles i picked.
So perhaps be glad i am not that one.
Look. Don't get confused k0okster. I do /not/ defend you or any of your
incoherent babbling.

I simply pointed out that you usually make some type of point within your
jumbled up mess of words that has merit. However that point is generally
drowned in a mangled mess of incoherent words that very few can understand
with just one reading. It takes several passes to even remotely understand
what you are trying to say. But if one reads carefully enough, a single lone
idea can be found that resembles some type of point worthy of further
consideration.

To put it simply, you are a net-l00N
u***@hotmail.com
2009-06-02 20:30:18 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by [M]adman
Post by Elijahovah
Adman i thank you for the defense.
If they get something out of what i say
perhaos you help. Or perhaps you just prove
that they dont want to.
But I reposted this to correect YOU too in my intent
of clarifying. What you say of them is true.
But it doesnt mean you grasped my point.
I could never be like Jesus was on earth and
tolerate all 12 dumb apostles i picked.
So perhaps be glad i am not that one.
Look. Don't get confused k0okster. I do /not/ defend you or any of your
incoherent babbling.
I simply pointed out that you usually make some type of point within your
jumbled up mess of words that has merit. However that point is generally
drowned in a mangled mess of incoherent words that very few can understand
with just one reading. It takes several passes to even remotely understand
what you are trying to say. But if one reads carefully enough, a single lone
idea can be found that resembles some type of point worthy of further
consideration.
To put it simply, you are a net-l00N
But Maddy, he is absolutely sure that he is telling the truth. Hell,
if you ask him, he'll tell you that he has Special Perceptive Powers®.

Gosh...
Madman or Elijovah

Decisions, decisions.
<goes for another cuppa joe>

Kermit
Tim Norfolk
2009-06-03 01:18:36 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Actually, the Lunar tug is exactly one of the reasons why Noah's Flood
of the Bible couldn't have happened. With water '15 cubits over the
highest mountains', meaning no land masses to attenuate the waves, and
the Moon as a forced oscillation source, the waves had to be 100s of
feet high. No boat could survive that, unless Noah had an atomic-
powered submarine - which would still have a hard time moving through
thousands of feet of animal corpses.
r***@umich.edu
2009-06-03 01:50:06 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Tim Norfolk
Actually, the Lunar tug is exactly one of the reasons why Noah's Flood
of the Bible couldn't have happened. With water '15 cubits over the
highest mountains', meaning no land masses to attenuate the waves, and
the Moon as a forced oscillation source, the waves had to be 100s of
feet high. No boat could survive that, unless Noah had an atomic-
powered submarine - which would still have a hard time moving through
thousands of feet of animal corpses.
Even total lunacy has to be answered with scientific fact, not
speculation.

I don't think you are right about the kind of waves that would be
produced by water covering the surface of the earth with no
intervening land masses. There are already extremely large areas of
the earth covered by ocean and at southern latitudes between South
America's Cape Horn and the Antarctic peninsula there is a rather
large strecth of ocean the circumnavigates the earth. Nobody has
problems with tides at these locations. A tidal rise and fall of even
hundreds of feet (which I doubt would really happen, though i am
willing to be convinced otherwise) occuring over an 11 to 12 hour
period presents no problem. Why would you expect ordinary traveling
waves of relatively short wavelength to be produced by tides?

Besides, I don't see live animals piling up several thousands of feet
deep now so if they all drowned, I can't imagine their corpses,
bloated as they might be, to suddenly become thousands of feet deep.

There are more than enough real problems trying to accord Noah's flood
and the animals-in-the-ark story with what we know of science and
engineering as to not require manufacturing bogus ones.
Tim Norfolk
2009-06-03 13:02:14 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by r***@umich.edu
Post by Tim Norfolk
Actually, the Lunar tug is exactly one of the reasons why Noah's Flood
of the Bible couldn't have happened. With water '15 cubits over the
highest mountains', meaning no land masses to attenuate the waves, and
the Moon as a forced oscillation source, the waves had to be 100s of
feet high. No boat could survive that, unless Noah had an atomic-
powered submarine - which would still have a hard time moving through
thousands of feet of animal corpses.
Even total lunacy has to be answered with scientific fact, not
speculation.
I don't think you are right about the kind of waves that would be
produced by water covering the surface of the earth with no
intervening land masses. �There are already extremely large areas of
the earth covered by ocean and at southern latitudes between South
America's Cape Horn and the Antarctic peninsula there is a rather
large strecth of ocean the circumnavigates the earth. �Nobody has
problems with tides at these locations. �A tidal rise and fall of even
hundreds of feet (which I doubt would really happen, though i am
willing to be convinced otherwise) occuring over an 11 to 12 hour
period presents no problem. �Why would you expect ordinary traveling
waves of relatively short wavelength to be produced by tides?
Besides, I don't see live animals piling up several thousands of feet
deep now so if they all drowned, I can't imagine their corpses,
bloated as they might be, to suddenly become thousands of feet deep.
There are more than enough real problems trying to accord Noah's flood
and the animals-in-the-ark story with what we know of science and
engineering as to not require manufacturing bogus ones.
I have looked at this problem a little, from a fluid mechanics
approach. The lunar tug, with no damping, plus the drag on the water
at the equator as the Earth rotates quickly would, I believe, produce
quite large waves. As for the animals, just consider features such as
the White Cliffs of Dover, hundreds of feet of fossilized diatoms.
That by itself is some muck to drive through.
r***@umich.edu
2009-06-03 13:52:56 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Tim Norfolk
Post by r***@umich.edu
Post by Tim Norfolk
Actually, the Lunar tug is exactly one of the reasons why Noah's Flood
of the Bible couldn't have happened. With water '15 cubits over the
highest mountains', meaning no land masses to attenuate the waves, and
the Moon as a forced oscillation source, the waves had to be 100s of
feet high. No boat could survive that, unless Noah had an atomic-
powered submarine - which would still have a hard time moving through
thousands of feet of animal corpses.
Even total lunacy has to be answered with scientific fact, not
speculation.
I don't think you are right about the kind of waves that would be
produced by water covering the surface of the earth with no
intervening land masses. There are already extremely large areas of
the earth covered by ocean and at southern latitudes between South
America's Cape Horn and the Antarctic peninsula there is a rather
large strecth of ocean the circumnavigates the earth. Nobody has
problems with tides at these locations. A tidal rise and fall of even
hundreds of feet (which I doubt would really happen, though i am
willing to be convinced otherwise) occuring over an 11 to 12 hour
period presents no problem. Why would you expect ordinary traveling
waves of relatively short wavelength to be produced by tides?
Besides, I don't see live animals piling up several thousands of feet
deep now so if they all drowned, I can't imagine their corpses,
bloated as they might be, to suddenly become thousands of feet deep.
There are more than enough real problems trying to accord Noah's flood
and the animals-in-the-ark story with what we know of science and
engineering as to not require manufacturing bogus ones.
I have looked at this problem a little, from a fluid mechanics
approach. The lunar tug, with no damping, plus the drag on the water
at the equator as the Earth rotates quickly would, I believe, produce
quite large waves. As for the animals, just consider features such as
the White Cliffs of Dover, hundreds of feet of fossilized diatoms.
That by itself is some muck to drive through.- Hide quoted text -
Sorry, I still don't buy it. There now is a tidal bulge of perhaps 1
or 2 meters in midocean. The bulge moves around the earth but does
not produce waves. I don't understand why the bulge would increase by
a factor of almost 100 nor why it would produce waves of a wavelength
short enough to affect a floating vessel.

Also, a layer of several hundred feet of diatoms distributed in
several hundred feet or, more likely, many thousands of feet of water
would have a turbid or chalky appearance and present absolutely zero
impediment to a ship moving through it.
Robert Grumbine
2009-06-12 13:32:01 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by r***@umich.edu
Post by Tim Norfolk
Post by r***@umich.edu
Post by Tim Norfolk
Actually, the Lunar tug is exactly one of the reasons why Noah's Flood
of the Bible couldn't have happened. With water '15 cubits over the
highest mountains', meaning no land masses to attenuate the waves, and
the Moon as a forced oscillation source, the waves had to be 100s of
feet high. No boat could survive that, unless Noah had an atomic-
powered submarine - which would still have a hard time moving through
thousands of feet of animal corpses.
There are innumerable problems with the flood, but this isn't one of
them.

The equilibrium lunar tide is about 0.5 m. Anywhere you see more than
that (Bay of Fundy most notably, but also many coastal locales) is because
there is a local resonance between how long it takes water to slosh up the
bay and how frequently the moon is coming by to kick another slosh up the
bay. If the timing is right, you can get extremely high tides.

Go to a water covered planet, and there are no resonances, so no tidal
amplification by resonance. The moon moves much faster (w.r.t. the surface
of the earth) -- about 1613 kph at the equator -- than long ocean waves do,
about 1000 kph for an earth with 8000 m water (global average after drowning
everest). So part of the time, the moon is pulling water towards your wave
crest, and part of the time is is pulling away. No resonance, so no
resonant amplification.

(SF: change orbital parameters and ocean around so as to have tidal
wave speed match moon's orbital speed. Then have fun with the tides.)

See George Darwin's book on tides (available in whole from Google
Books).

Wind-waves, on the other hand, would get pretty drastically larger
than they do currently. The one area with more or less unobstructed
path for wind and waves -- the Antarctic Circumpolar Current -- is also
notoriously rough on ships. See, for example, http://polar.ncep.noaa.gov/waves/
in global view.
Post by r***@umich.edu
Post by Tim Norfolk
Post by r***@umich.edu
Even total lunacy has to be answered with scientific fact, not
speculation.
I don't think you are right about the kind of waves that would be
produced by water covering the surface of the earth with no
intervening land masses. There are already extremely large areas of
the earth covered by ocean and at southern latitudes between South
America's Cape Horn and the Antarctic peninsula there is a rather
large strecth of ocean the circumnavigates the earth. Nobody has
problems with tides at these locations. A tidal rise and fall of even
hundreds of feet (which I doubt would really happen, though i am
willing to be convinced otherwise) occuring over an 11 to 12 hour
period presents no problem. Why would you expect ordinary traveling
waves of relatively short wavelength to be produced by tides?
Besides, I don't see live animals piling up several thousands of feet
deep now so if they all drowned, I can't imagine their corpses,
bloated as they might be, to suddenly become thousands of feet deep.
There are more than enough real problems trying to accord Noah's flood
and the animals-in-the-ark story with what we know of science and
engineering as to not require manufacturing bogus ones.
I have looked at this problem a little, from a fluid mechanics
approach. The lunar tug, with no damping, plus the drag on the water
at the equator as the Earth rotates quickly would, I believe, produce
quite large waves. As for the animals, just consider features such as
the White Cliffs of Dover, hundreds of feet of fossilized diatoms.
That by itself is some muck to drive through.- Hide quoted text -
Sorry, I still don't buy it. There now is a tidal bulge of perhaps 1
or 2 meters in midocean. The bulge moves around the earth but does
not produce waves. I don't understand why the bulge would increase by
a factor of almost 100 nor why it would produce waves of a wavelength
short enough to affect a floating vessel.
Also, a layer of several hundred feet of diatoms distributed in
several hundred feet or, more likely, many thousands of feet of water
would have a turbid or chalky appearance and present absolutely zero
impediment to a ship moving through it.
Indeed.
--
Robert Grumbine http://moregrumbinescience.blogspot.com/ Science blog
Sagredo (Galileo Galilei) "You present these recondite matters with too much
evidence and ease; this great facility makes them less appreciated than they
would be had they been presented in a more abstruse manner." Two New Sciences
u***@hotmail.com
2009-06-03 14:40:58 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Tim Norfolk
Post by r***@umich.edu
Post by Tim Norfolk
Actually, the Lunar tug is exactly one of the reasons why Noah's Flood
of the Bible couldn't have happened. With water '15 cubits over the
highest mountains', meaning no land masses to attenuate the waves, and
the Moon as a forced oscillation source, the waves had to be 100s of
feet high. No boat could survive that, unless Noah had an atomic-
powered submarine - which would still have a hard time moving through
thousands of feet of animal corpses.
I would think that the worst turbulence would be in the beginning of
the flood; the first 40 days. Much of that imaginary water would have
been falling on land, at an average rate of 5 meters or more per hour.
Surely all that water rushing downstream would have scoured the Earth
clean of many geological features that we see now? Like the scablands
of Washington State, USA, only worse:

http://tinyurl.com/oael34
Post by Tim Norfolk
Post by r***@umich.edu
Even total lunacy has to be answered with scientific fact, not
speculation.
I don't think you are right about the kind of waves that would be
produced by water covering the surface of the earth with no
intervening land masses. There are already extremely large areas of
the earth covered by ocean and at southern latitudes between South
America's Cape Horn and the Antarctic peninsula there is a rather
large strecth of ocean the circumnavigates the earth. Nobody has
problems with tides at these locations. A tidal rise and fall of even
hundreds of feet (which I doubt would really happen, though i am
willing to be convinced otherwise) occuring over an 11 to 12 hour
period presents no problem. Why would you expect ordinary traveling
waves of relatively short wavelength to be produced by tides?
Besides, I don't see live animals piling up several thousands of feet
deep now so if they all drowned, I can't imagine their corpses,
bloated as they might be, to suddenly become thousands of feet deep.
There are more than enough real problems trying to accord Noah's flood
and the animals-in-the-ark story with what we know of science and
engineering as to not require manufacturing bogus ones.
I have looked at this problem a little, from a fluid mechanics
approach. The lunar tug, with no damping, plus the drag on the water
at the equator as the Earth rotates quickly would, I believe, produce
quite large waves. As for the animals, just consider features such as
the White Cliffs of Dover, hundreds of feet of fossilized diatoms.
That by itself is some muck to drive through.
Surely all of those diatoms were not alive at one time!

In order for the carcasses to be thousands of feet deep, I would think
they would have had to be that thick when alive a few days earlier.

Kermit
Jack Crenshaw
2009-06-03 23:15:26 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Tim Norfolk
Post by r***@umich.edu
Post by Tim Norfolk
Actually, the Lunar tug is exactly one of the reasons why Noah's Flood
of the Bible couldn't have happened. With water '15 cubits over the
highest mountains', meaning no land masses to attenuate the waves, and
the Moon as a forced oscillation source, the waves had to be 100s of
feet high. No boat could survive that, unless Noah had an atomic-
powered submarine - which would still have a hard time moving through
thousands of feet of animal corpses.
Even total lunacy has to be answered with scientific fact, not
speculation.
I don't think you are right about the kind of waves that would be
produced by water covering the surface of the earth with no
intervening land masses. �There are already extremely large areas of
the earth covered by ocean and at southern latitudes between South
America's Cape Horn and the Antarctic peninsula there is a rather
large strecth of ocean the circumnavigates the earth. �Nobody has
problems with tides at these locations. �A tidal rise and fall of even
hundreds of feet (which I doubt would really happen, though i am
willing to be convinced otherwise) occuring over an 11 to 12 hour
period presents no problem. �Why would you expect ordinary traveling
waves of relatively short wavelength to be produced by tides?
Besides, I don't see live animals piling up several thousands of feet
deep now so if they all drowned, I can't imagine their corpses,
bloated as they might be, to suddenly become thousands of feet deep.
There are more than enough real problems trying to accord Noah's flood
and the animals-in-the-ark story with what we know of science and
engineering as to not require manufacturing bogus ones.
I have looked at this problem a little, from a fluid mechanics
approach. The lunar tug, with no damping, plus the drag on the water
at the equator as the Earth rotates quickly would, I believe, produce
quite large waves. As for the animals, just consider features such as
the White Cliffs of Dover, hundreds of feet of fossilized diatoms.
That by itself is some muck to drive through.
With respect, I have to agree with rnorman. First of all, the lunar tide
doesn't cause waves at all; wind does. As rnorman says, the Pacific
Ocean covers almost an entire hemisphere, a larger area than all the
land masses put together. If that's not "water convering land," it's
sure a good approximation. Yet, except during typhoons and stuff like
that, the midocean waves are rather calm, which is why the Spanish
explorers named it the _PACIFIC_ ocean.

Consider this: From the point of view of someone sitting on the moon,
the earth's tidal bulge would appear fixed relative to the earth-moon
line. And it's only a foot or two in depth. Large tides only occur when
the bulge interacts with land masses. So in reality, the tidal bulge on
a "Waterworld" should be lower, not higher. What math did you use to
arrive at the "quite large" waves?

You seem to be assuming some kind of resonance behavior, where the moon
tugs rhythmically on the water and gets it oscillation, something like a
kid pumping his swing to get to higher heights. That doesn't happen
with tides, though. The surface waves have one velocity, determined by
the density of water and gravitational constant. Deep ocean wave speeds
also depend on water depth, so they're different yet. The sub-lunar
point is different depending on latitude (about 1000 mph at the
equator), and the sub-solar point a bit different yet, because of the
different apparent cycles (lunar month vs. solar yearyear). In practice,
I think you'll find that all these different periods insure that there
is no resonance at all.

So you're left with a depth change of a couple of feet, with a period
roughly one day. The maximum rate of depth change works out to be
something like 1.6 m/hr -- hardly the kind of motion that capsizes boats.

Jack
Tim Norfolk
2009-06-04 00:32:16 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Jack Crenshaw
Post by Tim Norfolk
Post by r***@umich.edu
Post by Tim Norfolk
Actually, the Lunar tug is exactly one of the reasons why Noah's Flood
of the Bible couldn't have happened. With water '15 cubits over the
highest mountains', meaning no land masses to attenuate the waves, and
the Moon as a forced oscillation source, the waves had to be 100s of
feet high. No boat could survive that, unless Noah had an atomic-
powered submarine - which would still have a hard time moving through
thousands of feet of animal corpses.
Even total lunacy has to be answered with scientific fact, not
speculation.
I don't think you are right about the kind of waves that would be
produced by water covering the surface of the earth with no
intervening land masses. There are already extremely large areas of
the earth covered by ocean and at southern latitudes between South
America's Cape Horn and the Antarctic peninsula there is a rather
large strecth of ocean the circumnavigates the earth. Nobody has
problems with tides at these locations. A tidal rise and fall of even
hundreds of feet (which I doubt would really happen, though i am
willing to be convinced otherwise) occuring over an 11 to 12 hour
period presents no problem. Why would you expect ordinary traveling
waves of relatively short wavelength to be produced by tides?
Besides, I don't see live animals piling up several thousands of feet
deep now so if they all drowned, I can't imagine their corpses,
bloated as they might be, to suddenly become thousands of feet deep.
There are more than enough real problems trying to accord Noah's flood
and the animals-in-the-ark story with what we know of science and
engineering as to not require manufacturing bogus ones.
I have looked at this problem a little, from a fluid mechanics
approach. The lunar tug, with no damping, plus the drag on the water
at the equator as the Earth rotates quickly would, I believe, produce
quite large waves. As for the animals, just consider features such as
the White Cliffs of Dover, hundreds of feet of fossilized diatoms.
That by itself is some muck to drive through.
With respect, I have to agree with rnorman. First of all, the lunar tide
doesn't cause waves at all; wind does. As rnorman says, the Pacific
Ocean covers almost an entire hemisphere, a larger area than all the
land masses put together. If that's not "water convering land," it's
sure a good approximation. �Yet, except during typhoons and stuff like
that, the midocean waves are rather calm, which is why the Spanish
explorers named it the _PACIFIC_ ocean.
Consider this: From the point of view of someone sitting on the moon,
the earth's tidal bulge would appear fixed relative to the earth-moon
line. And it's only a foot or two in depth. Large tides only occur when
the bulge interacts with land masses. �So in reality, the tidal bulge on
a "Waterworld" should be lower, not higher. �What math did you use to
arrive at the "quite large" waves?
You seem to be assuming some kind of resonance behavior, where the moon
tugs rhythmically on the water and gets it oscillation, something like a
kid pumping his swing to get to higher heights. �That doesn't happen
with tides, though. �The surface waves have one velocity, determined by
the density of water and gravitational constant. Deep ocean wave speeds
also depend on water depth, so they're different yet. �The sub-lunar
point is different depending on latitude (about 1000 mph at the
equator), and the sub-solar point a bit different yet, because of the
different apparent cycles (lunar month vs. solar yearyear). In practice,
I �think you'll find that all these different periods insure that there
is no resonance at all.
So you're left with a depth change of a couple of feet, with a period
roughly one day. The maximum rate of depth change works out to be
something like 1.6 m/hr -- hardly the kind of motion that capsizes boats.
Jack- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
I will always admit that I could be wrong. Since you mention it,
wouldn't the winds also be much greater with no mountains to impede
the flow. I'll have to think some more about this.
r***@umich.edu
2009-06-04 00:45:39 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Tim Norfolk
Post by Jack Crenshaw
Post by Tim Norfolk
Post by r***@umich.edu
Post by Tim Norfolk
Actually, the Lunar tug is exactly one of the reasons why Noah's Flood
of the Bible couldn't have happened. With water '15 cubits over the
highest mountains', meaning no land masses to attenuate the waves, and
the Moon as a forced oscillation source, the waves had to be 100s of
feet high. No boat could survive that, unless Noah had an atomic-
powered submarine - which would still have a hard time moving through
thousands of feet of animal corpses.
Even total lunacy has to be answered with scientific fact, not
speculation.
I don't think you are right about the kind of waves that would be
produced by water covering the surface of the earth with no
intervening land masses. There are already extremely large areas of
the earth covered by ocean and at southern latitudes between South
America's Cape Horn and the Antarctic peninsula there is a rather
large strecth of ocean the circumnavigates the earth. Nobody has
problems with tides at these locations. A tidal rise and fall of even
hundreds of feet (which I doubt would really happen, though i am
willing to be convinced otherwise) occuring over an 11 to 12 hour
period presents no problem. Why would you expect ordinary traveling
waves of relatively short wavelength to be produced by tides?
Besides, I don't see live animals piling up several thousands of feet
deep now so if they all drowned, I can't imagine their corpses,
bloated as they might be, to suddenly become thousands of feet deep.
There are more than enough real problems trying to accord Noah's flood
and the animals-in-the-ark story with what we know of science and
engineering as to not require manufacturing bogus ones.
I have looked at this problem a little, from a fluid mechanics
approach. The lunar tug, with no damping, plus the drag on the water
at the equator as the Earth rotates quickly would, I believe, produce
quite large waves. As for the animals, just consider features such as
the White Cliffs of Dover, hundreds of feet of fossilized diatoms.
That by itself is some muck to drive through.
With respect, I have to agree with rnorman. First of all, the lunar tide
doesn't cause waves at all; wind does. As rnorman says, the Pacific
Ocean covers almost an entire hemisphere, a larger area than all the
land masses put together. If that's not "water convering land," it's
sure a good approximation. Yet, except during typhoons and stuff like
that, the midocean waves are rather calm, which is why the Spanish
explorers named it the _PACIFIC_ ocean.
Consider this: From the point of view of someone sitting on the moon,
the earth's tidal bulge would appear fixed relative to the earth-moon
line. And it's only a foot or two in depth. Large tides only occur when
the bulge interacts with land masses. So in reality, the tidal bulge on
a "Waterworld" should be lower, not higher. What math did you use to
arrive at the "quite large" waves?
You seem to be assuming some kind of resonance behavior, where the moon
tugs rhythmically on the water and gets it oscillation, something like a
kid pumping his swing to get to higher heights. That doesn't happen
with tides, though. The surface waves have one velocity, determined by
the density of water and gravitational constant. Deep ocean wave speeds
also depend on water depth, so they're different yet. The sub-lunar
point is different depending on latitude (about 1000 mph at the
equator), and the sub-solar point a bit different yet, because of the
different apparent cycles (lunar month vs. solar yearyear). In practice,
I think you'll find that all these different periods insure that there
is no resonance at all.
So you're left with a depth change of a couple of feet, with a period
roughly one day. The maximum rate of depth change works out to be
something like 1.6 m/hr -- hardly the kind of motion that capsizes boats.
I will always admit that I could be wrong. Since you mention it,
wouldn't the winds also be much greater with no mountains to impede
the flow. I'll have to think some more about this.
On that point you are entirely correct. In the southern latitudes
below Cape Horn where the winds can circle the globe with no
interfering continents, the winds are indeed fierce producing large
waves and boats regularly capsize there.

However the Bible does not mention fierce winds, nor does it mention
catastrophic waves. I can only assume that the same God who could
first cause all the animals to gather together and live in peace and
harmony witheat eating, urinating, or defecating and who could both
produce all that water and then remove it afterwards, could also do
all that with absolutely no wind or wave action. Once you invoke
Goddidit (and you have to for this story, it tells us so right there
in the text), you can explain anything. The only problem the
creationists have is trying to insist that it can also accord with
what we know about physics and engineering and strength of materials
and meteorology and geology and naval architecture and everything
else. There is no reason why it has to accord with anything -- that
is just the way Goddidit. That is also why trying to debunk the story
on the basis of fact is wasted effort. God's miracles don't obey the
laws of physics. You just believe them or you don't.
Tim Norfolk
2009-06-04 01:04:58 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Tim Norfolk
Post by Jack Crenshaw
Post by Tim Norfolk
Post by r***@umich.edu
Post by Tim Norfolk
Actually, the Lunar tug is exactly one of the reasons why Noah's Flood
of the Bible couldn't have happened. With water '15 cubits over the
highest mountains', meaning no land masses to attenuate the waves, and
the Moon as a forced oscillation source, the waves had to be 100s of
feet high. No boat could survive that, unless Noah had an atomic-
powered submarine - which would still have a hard time moving through
thousands of feet of animal corpses.
Even total lunacy has to be answered with scientific fact, not
speculation.
I don't think you are right about the kind of waves that would be
produced by water covering the surface of the earth with no
intervening land masses. There are already extremely large areas of
the earth covered by ocean and at southern latitudes between South
America's Cape Horn and the Antarctic peninsula there is a rather
large strecth of ocean the circumnavigates the earth. Nobody has
problems with tides at these locations. A tidal rise and fall of even
hundreds of feet (which I doubt would really happen, though i am
willing to be convinced otherwise) occuring over an 11 to 12 hour
period presents no problem. Why would you expect ordinary traveling
waves of relatively short wavelength to be produced by tides?
Besides, I don't see live animals piling up several thousands of feet
deep now so if they all drowned, I can't imagine their corpses,
bloated as they might be, to suddenly become thousands of feet deep.
There are more than enough real problems trying to accord Noah's flood
and the animals-in-the-ark story with what we know of science and
engineering as to not require manufacturing bogus ones.
I have looked at this problem a little, from a fluid mechanics
approach. The lunar tug, with no damping, plus the drag on the water
at the equator as the Earth rotates quickly would, I believe, produce
quite large waves. As for the animals, just consider features such as
the White Cliffs of Dover, hundreds of feet of fossilized diatoms.
That by itself is some muck to drive through.
With respect, I have to agree with rnorman. First of all, the lunar tide
doesn't cause waves at all; wind does. As rnorman says, the Pacific
Ocean covers almost an entire hemisphere, a larger area than all the
land masses put together. If that's not "water convering land," it's
sure a good approximation. Yet, except during typhoons and stuff like
that, the midocean waves are rather calm, which is why the Spanish
explorers named it the _PACIFIC_ ocean.
Consider this: From the point of view of someone sitting on the moon,
the earth's tidal bulge would appear fixed relative to the earth-moon
line. And it's only a foot or two in depth. Large tides only occur when
the bulge interacts with land masses. So in reality, the tidal bulge on
a "Waterworld" should be lower, not higher. What math did you use to
arrive at the "quite large" waves?
You seem to be assuming some kind of resonance behavior, where the moon
tugs rhythmically on the water and gets it oscillation, something like a
kid pumping his swing to get to higher heights. That doesn't happen
with tides, though. The surface waves have one velocity, determined by
the density of water and gravitational constant. Deep ocean wave speeds
also depend on water depth, so they're different yet. The sub-lunar
point is different depending on latitude (about 1000 mph at the
equator), and the sub-solar point a bit different yet, because of the
different apparent cycles (lunar month vs. solar yearyear). In practice,
I think you'll find that all these different periods insure that there
is no resonance at all.
So you're left with a depth change of a couple of feet, with a period
roughly one day. The maximum rate of depth change works out to be
something like 1.6 m/hr -- hardly the kind of motion that capsizes boats.
I will always admit that I could be wrong. Since you mention it,
wouldn't the winds also be much greater with no mountains to impede
the flow. I'll have to think some more about this.
On that point you are entirely correct. �In the southern latitudes
below Cape Horn where the winds can circle the globe with no
interfering continents, the winds are indeed fierce producing large
waves and boats regularly capsize there.
However the Bible does not mention fierce winds, nor does it mention
catastrophic waves. �I can only assume that the same God who could
first cause all the animals to gather together and live in peace and
harmony witheat eating, urinating, or defecating and who could both
produce all that water and then remove it afterwards, could also do
all that with absolutely no wind or wave action. �Once you invoke
Goddidit (and you have to for this story, it tells us so right there
in the text), you can explain anything. �The only problem the
creationists have is trying to insist that it can also accord with
what we know about physics and engineering and strength of materials
and meteorology and geology and naval architecture and everything
else. �There is no reason why it has to accord with anything -- that
is just the way Goddidit. �That is also why trying to debunk the story
on the basis of fact is wasted effort. � God's miracles don't obey the
laws of physics. �You just believe them or you don't.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
I agree entirely.But, unless a YEC wishes to commit significant
heresy, and add *a lot* to the Bible, they are stuck with their
approach.

I am convinced that it (like many other delusions) results in a form
of infectious, socially-accepted psychosis. While I know very little
about psychology, the reading that I have done makes me think that the
'belief' is based in the amygdala, and the other arguments come from
the forebrain. That's why they get so angry when you try to reason
with them.
Tim Norfolk
2009-06-04 01:17:29 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
By the way, I am beating this rather dead horse becuase it is an
interesting thought experiment in applied physics, not because any YEC
will admit that their 'models' don't work.

As for the Pacific, don't some rather large cyclones form in open
water?
r***@umich.edu
2009-06-04 01:44:21 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Tim Norfolk
By the way, I am beating this rather dead horse becuase it is an
interesting thought experiment in applied physics, not because any YEC
will admit that their 'models' don't work.
As for the Pacific, don't some rather large cyclones form in open
water?
Yes but not because of tidal action. It is the heat from sunlight
that drives winds. Large scale wind patterns are also influenced by
coriolis forces due to the earth's rotation. The same applies to
ocean water currents.
Tim Norfolk
2009-06-04 13:39:58 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Tim Norfolk
By the way, I am beating this rather dead horse becuase it is an
interesting thought experiment in applied physics, not because any YEC
will admit that their 'models' don't work.
As for the Pacific, don't some rather large cyclones form in open
water?
Yes but not because of tidal action. �It is the heat from sunlight
that drives winds. �Large scale wind patterns are also influenced by
coriolis forces due to the earth's rotation. �The same applies to
ocean water currents.
In other words, several thousand feet of water over the whole Earth
would indeed mean very large waves?
r***@umich.edu
2009-06-04 23:20:32 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Tim Norfolk
Post by Tim Norfolk
By the way, I am beating this rather dead horse becuase it is an
interesting thought experiment in applied physics, not because any YEC
will admit that their 'models' don't work.
As for the Pacific, don't some rather large cyclones form in open
water?
Yes but not because of tidal action. It is the heat from sunlight
that drives winds. Large scale wind patterns are also influenced by
coriolis forces due to the earth's rotation. The same applies to
ocean water currents.
In other words, several thousand feet of water over the whole Earth
would indeed mean very large waves?
It would be logical, but then the flood itself is not logical. As I
said, somebody who believes in a literal flood would have no problem
believing in a flood with only limited waves, just enough to put a
veil of verisimilitude on it but not enough to put the venture in
real peril.
Robert Grumbine
2009-06-12 13:43:04 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Tim Norfolk
Post by Tim Norfolk
By the way, I am beating this rather dead horse becuase it is an
interesting thought experiment in applied physics, not because any YEC
will admit that their 'models' don't work.
In my other note, I mentioned George Darwin's book on tides.
You can get that from Google Books. For something more modern,
see David Cartwright's book on tides. Lamb's Hydrodynamics
also has a good section on the relevant wave dynamics.
Post by Tim Norfolk
Post by Tim Norfolk
As for the Pacific, don't some rather large cyclones form in open
water?
Yes but not because of tidal action. ?It is the heat from sunlight
that drives winds. ?Large scale wind patterns are also influenced by
coriolis forces due to the earth's rotation. ?The same applies to
ocean water currents.
In other words, several thousand feet of water over the whole Earth
would indeed mean very large waves?
Not because of the water depth, but because (as already mentioned)
the unobstructed room for wind waves to keep accumulating energy
from the winds.

Storms themselves (to be a touch more precise, low pressure systems)
are, as mentioned earlier, driven in part by equator to pole temperature
differences. For two early analytic models of this, see Charney 1947
or Eady 1948, both given full citations in the book I'll recommend you
get as you try to get a handle on geophysical fluid dynamics -- Adrian
E. Gill, Atmosphere-Ocean Fluid Dynamics, Academic Press 1982. (Also
has a nice section on tides.)

In general, though, it isn't obvious to me that a completely
water-covered earth would be stormier. You'd lose the poleward
heat transport by the Gulf Stream, which would then require more
poleward heat transport in the atmosphere. On the other hand,
it would be much easier to sink cold water at the poles and send
cold towards the equator, balancing off (?) the flow largely in
the ocean. Plus, without the land-sea temperature contrast,
you lose one of the major sources of interesting weather.
--
Robert Grumbine http://moregrumbinescience.blogspot.com/ Science blog
Sagredo (Galileo Galilei) "You present these recondite matters with too much
evidence and ease; this great facility makes them less appreciated than they
would be had they been presented in a more abstruse manner." Two New Sciences
Tim Norfolk
2009-06-04 13:39:58 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Tim Norfolk
By the way, I am beating this rather dead horse becuase it is an
interesting thought experiment in applied physics, not because any YEC
will admit that their 'models' don't work.
As for the Pacific, don't some rather large cyclones form in open
water?
Yes but not because of tidal action. �It is the heat from sunlight
that drives winds. �Large scale wind patterns are also influenced by
coriolis forces due to the earth's rotation. �The same applies to
ocean water currents.
In other words, several thousand feet of water over the whole Earth
would indeed mean very large waves?
Tim Norfolk
2009-06-04 01:04:58 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Tim Norfolk
Post by Jack Crenshaw
Post by Tim Norfolk
Post by r***@umich.edu
Post by Tim Norfolk
Actually, the Lunar tug is exactly one of the reasons why Noah's Flood
of the Bible couldn't have happened. With water '15 cubits over the
highest mountains', meaning no land masses to attenuate the waves, and
the Moon as a forced oscillation source, the waves had to be 100s of
feet high. No boat could survive that, unless Noah had an atomic-
powered submarine - which would still have a hard time moving through
thousands of feet of animal corpses.
Even total lunacy has to be answered with scientific fact, not
speculation.
I don't think you are right about the kind of waves that would be
produced by water covering the surface of the earth with no
intervening land masses. There are already extremely large areas of
the earth covered by ocean and at southern latitudes between South
America's Cape Horn and the Antarctic peninsula there is a rather
large strecth of ocean the circumnavigates the earth. Nobody has
problems with tides at these locations. A tidal rise and fall of even
hundreds of feet (which I doubt would really happen, though i am
willing to be convinced otherwise) occuring over an 11 to 12 hour
period presents no problem. Why would you expect ordinary traveling
waves of relatively short wavelength to be produced by tides?
Besides, I don't see live animals piling up several thousands of feet
deep now so if they all drowned, I can't imagine their corpses,
bloated as they might be, to suddenly become thousands of feet deep.
There are more than enough real problems trying to accord Noah's flood
and the animals-in-the-ark story with what we know of science and
engineering as to not require manufacturing bogus ones.
I have looked at this problem a little, from a fluid mechanics
approach. The lunar tug, with no damping, plus the drag on the water
at the equator as the Earth rotates quickly would, I believe, produce
quite large waves. As for the animals, just consider features such as
the White Cliffs of Dover, hundreds of feet of fossilized diatoms.
That by itself is some muck to drive through.
With respect, I have to agree with rnorman. First of all, the lunar tide
doesn't cause waves at all; wind does. As rnorman says, the Pacific
Ocean covers almost an entire hemisphere, a larger area than all the
land masses put together. If that's not "water convering land," it's
sure a good approximation. Yet, except during typhoons and stuff like
that, the midocean waves are rather calm, which is why the Spanish
explorers named it the _PACIFIC_ ocean.
Consider this: From the point of view of someone sitting on the moon,
the earth's tidal bulge would appear fixed relative to the earth-moon
line. And it's only a foot or two in depth. Large tides only occur when
the bulge interacts with land masses. So in reality, the tidal bulge on
a "Waterworld" should be lower, not higher. What math did you use to
arrive at the "quite large" waves?
You seem to be assuming some kind of resonance behavior, where the moon
tugs rhythmically on the water and gets it oscillation, something like a
kid pumping his swing to get to higher heights. That doesn't happen
with tides, though. The surface waves have one velocity, determined by
the density of water and gravitational constant. Deep ocean wave speeds
also depend on water depth, so they're different yet. The sub-lunar
point is different depending on latitude (about 1000 mph at the
equator), and the sub-solar point a bit different yet, because of the
different apparent cycles (lunar month vs. solar yearyear). In practice,
I think you'll find that all these different periods insure that there
is no resonance at all.
So you're left with a depth change of a couple of feet, with a period
roughly one day. The maximum rate of depth change works out to be
something like 1.6 m/hr -- hardly the kind of motion that capsizes boats.
I will always admit that I could be wrong. Since you mention it,
wouldn't the winds also be much greater with no mountains to impede
the flow. I'll have to think some more about this.
On that point you are entirely correct. �In the southern latitudes
below Cape Horn where the winds can circle the globe with no
interfering continents, the winds are indeed fierce producing large
waves and boats regularly capsize there.
However the Bible does not mention fierce winds, nor does it mention
catastrophic waves. �I can only assume that the same God who could
first cause all the animals to gather together and live in peace and
harmony witheat eating, urinating, or defecating and who could both
produce all that water and then remove it afterwards, could also do
all that with absolutely no wind or wave action. �Once you invoke
Goddidit (and you have to for this story, it tells us so right there
in the text), you can explain anything. �The only problem the
creationists have is trying to insist that it can also accord with
what we know about physics and engineering and strength of materials
and meteorology and geology and naval architecture and everything
else. �There is no reason why it has to accord with anything -- that
is just the way Goddidit. �That is also why trying to debunk the story
on the basis of fact is wasted effort. � God's miracles don't obey the
laws of physics. �You just believe them or you don't.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
I agree entirely.But, unless a YEC wishes to commit significant
heresy, and add *a lot* to the Bible, they are stuck with their
approach.

I am convinced that it (like many other delusions) results in a form
of infectious, socially-accepted psychosis. While I know very little
about psychology, the reading that I have done makes me think that the
'belief' is based in the amygdala, and the other arguments come from
the forebrain. That's why they get so angry when you try to reason
with them.
u***@hotmail.com
2009-06-03 14:40:58 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Tim Norfolk
Post by r***@umich.edu
Post by Tim Norfolk
Actually, the Lunar tug is exactly one of the reasons why Noah's Flood
of the Bible couldn't have happened. With water '15 cubits over the
highest mountains', meaning no land masses to attenuate the waves, and
the Moon as a forced oscillation source, the waves had to be 100s of
feet high. No boat could survive that, unless Noah had an atomic-
powered submarine - which would still have a hard time moving through
thousands of feet of animal corpses.
I would think that the worst turbulence would be in the beginning of
the flood; the first 40 days. Much of that imaginary water would have
been falling on land, at an average rate of 5 meters or more per hour.
Surely all that water rushing downstream would have scoured the Earth
clean of many geological features that we see now? Like the scablands
of Washington State, USA, only worse:

http://tinyurl.com/oael34
Post by Tim Norfolk
Post by r***@umich.edu
Even total lunacy has to be answered with scientific fact, not
speculation.
I don't think you are right about the kind of waves that would be
produced by water covering the surface of the earth with no
intervening land masses. There are already extremely large areas of
the earth covered by ocean and at southern latitudes between South
America's Cape Horn and the Antarctic peninsula there is a rather
large strecth of ocean the circumnavigates the earth. Nobody has
problems with tides at these locations. A tidal rise and fall of even
hundreds of feet (which I doubt would really happen, though i am
willing to be convinced otherwise) occuring over an 11 to 12 hour
period presents no problem. Why would you expect ordinary traveling
waves of relatively short wavelength to be produced by tides?
Besides, I don't see live animals piling up several thousands of feet
deep now so if they all drowned, I can't imagine their corpses,
bloated as they might be, to suddenly become thousands of feet deep.
There are more than enough real problems trying to accord Noah's flood
and the animals-in-the-ark story with what we know of science and
engineering as to not require manufacturing bogus ones.
I have looked at this problem a little, from a fluid mechanics
approach. The lunar tug, with no damping, plus the drag on the water
at the equator as the Earth rotates quickly would, I believe, produce
quite large waves. As for the animals, just consider features such as
the White Cliffs of Dover, hundreds of feet of fossilized diatoms.
That by itself is some muck to drive through.
Surely all of those diatoms were not alive at one time!

In order for the carcasses to be thousands of feet deep, I would think
they would have had to be that thick when alive a few days earlier.

Kermit
Jack Crenshaw
2009-06-03 23:15:26 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Tim Norfolk
Post by r***@umich.edu
Post by Tim Norfolk
Actually, the Lunar tug is exactly one of the reasons why Noah's Flood
of the Bible couldn't have happened. With water '15 cubits over the
highest mountains', meaning no land masses to attenuate the waves, and
the Moon as a forced oscillation source, the waves had to be 100s of
feet high. No boat could survive that, unless Noah had an atomic-
powered submarine - which would still have a hard time moving through
thousands of feet of animal corpses.
Even total lunacy has to be answered with scientific fact, not
speculation.
I don't think you are right about the kind of waves that would be
produced by water covering the surface of the earth with no
intervening land masses. �There are already extremely large areas of
the earth covered by ocean and at southern latitudes between South
America's Cape Horn and the Antarctic peninsula there is a rather
large strecth of ocean the circumnavigates the earth. �Nobody has
problems with tides at these locations. �A tidal rise and fall of even
hundreds of feet (which I doubt would really happen, though i am
willing to be convinced otherwise) occuring over an 11 to 12 hour
period presents no problem. �Why would you expect ordinary traveling
waves of relatively short wavelength to be produced by tides?
Besides, I don't see live animals piling up several thousands of feet
deep now so if they all drowned, I can't imagine their corpses,
bloated as they might be, to suddenly become thousands of feet deep.
There are more than enough real problems trying to accord Noah's flood
and the animals-in-the-ark story with what we know of science and
engineering as to not require manufacturing bogus ones.
I have looked at this problem a little, from a fluid mechanics
approach. The lunar tug, with no damping, plus the drag on the water
at the equator as the Earth rotates quickly would, I believe, produce
quite large waves. As for the animals, just consider features such as
the White Cliffs of Dover, hundreds of feet of fossilized diatoms.
That by itself is some muck to drive through.
With respect, I have to agree with rnorman. First of all, the lunar tide
doesn't cause waves at all; wind does. As rnorman says, the Pacific
Ocean covers almost an entire hemisphere, a larger area than all the
land masses put together. If that's not "water convering land," it's
sure a good approximation. Yet, except during typhoons and stuff like
that, the midocean waves are rather calm, which is why the Spanish
explorers named it the _PACIFIC_ ocean.

Consider this: From the point of view of someone sitting on the moon,
the earth's tidal bulge would appear fixed relative to the earth-moon
line. And it's only a foot or two in depth. Large tides only occur when
the bulge interacts with land masses. So in reality, the tidal bulge on
a "Waterworld" should be lower, not higher. What math did you use to
arrive at the "quite large" waves?

You seem to be assuming some kind of resonance behavior, where the moon
tugs rhythmically on the water and gets it oscillation, something like a
kid pumping his swing to get to higher heights. That doesn't happen
with tides, though. The surface waves have one velocity, determined by
the density of water and gravitational constant. Deep ocean wave speeds
also depend on water depth, so they're different yet. The sub-lunar
point is different depending on latitude (about 1000 mph at the
equator), and the sub-solar point a bit different yet, because of the
different apparent cycles (lunar month vs. solar yearyear). In practice,
I think you'll find that all these different periods insure that there
is no resonance at all.

So you're left with a depth change of a couple of feet, with a period
roughly one day. The maximum rate of depth change works out to be
something like 1.6 m/hr -- hardly the kind of motion that capsizes boats.

Jack
Tim Norfolk
2009-06-03 13:02:14 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by r***@umich.edu
Post by Tim Norfolk
Actually, the Lunar tug is exactly one of the reasons why Noah's Flood
of the Bible couldn't have happened. With water '15 cubits over the
highest mountains', meaning no land masses to attenuate the waves, and
the Moon as a forced oscillation source, the waves had to be 100s of
feet high. No boat could survive that, unless Noah had an atomic-
powered submarine - which would still have a hard time moving through
thousands of feet of animal corpses.
Even total lunacy has to be answered with scientific fact, not
speculation.
I don't think you are right about the kind of waves that would be
produced by water covering the surface of the earth with no
intervening land masses. �There are already extremely large areas of
the earth covered by ocean and at southern latitudes between South
America's Cape Horn and the Antarctic peninsula there is a rather
large strecth of ocean the circumnavigates the earth. �Nobody has
problems with tides at these locations. �A tidal rise and fall of even
hundreds of feet (which I doubt would really happen, though i am
willing to be convinced otherwise) occuring over an 11 to 12 hour
period presents no problem. �Why would you expect ordinary traveling
waves of relatively short wavelength to be produced by tides?
Besides, I don't see live animals piling up several thousands of feet
deep now so if they all drowned, I can't imagine their corpses,
bloated as they might be, to suddenly become thousands of feet deep.
There are more than enough real problems trying to accord Noah's flood
and the animals-in-the-ark story with what we know of science and
engineering as to not require manufacturing bogus ones.
I have looked at this problem a little, from a fluid mechanics
approach. The lunar tug, with no damping, plus the drag on the water
at the equator as the Earth rotates quickly would, I believe, produce
quite large waves. As for the animals, just consider features such as
the White Cliffs of Dover, hundreds of feet of fossilized diatoms.
That by itself is some muck to drive through.
[M]adman
2009-06-03 04:22:28 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by u***@hotmail.com
Post by [M]adman
Post by Elijahovah
Adman i thank you for the defense.
If they get something out of what i say
perhaos you help. Or perhaps you just prove
that they dont want to.
But I reposted this to correect YOU too in my intent
of clarifying. What you say of them is true.
But it doesnt mean you grasped my point.
I could never be like Jesus was on earth and
tolerate all 12 dumb apostles i picked.
So perhaps be glad i am not that one.
Look. Don't get confused k0okster. I do /not/ defend you or any of
your incoherent babbling.
I simply pointed out that you usually make some type of point within
your jumbled up mess of words that has merit. However that point is
generally drowned in a mangled mess of incoherent words that very
few can understand with just one reading. It takes several passes to
even remotely understand what you are trying to say. But if one
reads carefully enough, a single lone idea can be found that
resembles some type of point worthy of further consideration.
To put it simply, you are a net-l00N
But Maddy, he is absolutely sure that he is telling the truth. Hell,
if you ask him, he'll tell you that he has Special Perceptive Powers®.
Gosh...
Madman or Elijovah
Decisions, decisions.
<goes for another cuppa joe>
Kermit
Look K. Even someone as dense as you pretend to be has perceptive powers.
You just fail to develop them, and then use them.

I hope that is de-caf.
Boikat
2009-06-03 05:13:20 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by [M]adman
Post by Elijahovah
Adman i thank you for the defense.
If they get something out of what i say
perhaos you help. Or perhaps you just prove
that they dont want to.
But I reposted this to correect YOU too in my intent
of clarifying. What you say of them is true.
But it doesnt mean you grasped my point.
I could never be like Jesus was on earth and
tolerate all 12 dumb apostles i picked.
So perhaps be glad i am not that one.
Look. Don't get confused k0okster. I do /not/ defend you or any of your
incoherent babbling.
I simply pointed out that you usually make some type of point within your
jumbled up mess of words that has merit. However that point is generally
drowned in a mangled mess of incoherent words that very few can understand
with just one reading. It takes several passes to even remotely understand
what you are trying to say. But if one reads carefully enough, a single lone
idea can be found that resembles some type of point worthy of further
consideration.
To put it simply, you are a net-l00N
Kin recognition.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kin_recognition

Boikat
u***@hotmail.com
2009-06-02 20:27:21 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Elijahovah
Adman i thank you for the defense.
If they get something out of what i say
perhaos you help. Or perhaps you just prove
that they dont want to.
But I reposted this to correect YOU too in my intent
of clarifying. What you say of them is true.
But it doesnt mean you grasped my point.
I could never be like Jesus was on earth and
tolerate all 12 dumb apostles i picked.
So perhaps be glad i am not that one.
So does this mean you have given up on the idea that we will all die
last April?

Here's what you wrote last December 1st:
"No matter what religion says it is false. Do not go to church on
Easter Sunday to get raptured. You will have watsed 3 days to get to
the mountains above 6000 feet and the rapture you will get at church
is the soldiers who shoot you. No matter what martial law of what
country says stay home, do not or you will drown; science refuses to
see this event too. "

Kermit
Boikat
2009-06-01 14:26:46 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Elijahovah
Indian Ocean Tsunami
reveals Lunar Flood Rate
<snip>

There's one tiny, little detail you overlooked:

There was no Noachian Flood.

Boikat
'Rev Dr' Lenny Flank
2009-06-01 16:35:15 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Elijahovah
Indian Ocean Tsunami
reveals Lunar Flood Rate
     In the Indian Ocean a fault or crack existed in the ocean flood.
Then in 2004 on Christmas Day Dec 25 an earthquake occurred due
causing one side of the fault to thrust up in less than 30 minutes to
a height of 45 feet for 200 miles long. This forced and shoved a wall
of water out across the ocean, not just on its surface to level the
ocean out, but within the body of water from sea floor to surface in a
shockwave producing a 30 foot wave on the surface that would strike
3000 miles of coastline. It happened in front of the eyes of
seismographs and satellites and was totally predictable as a wave of
destruction after the quake event.
     The events that Noah predicted, and of predicting Sodom and
events Moses predicted are very small events in number to the millions
of death causing events to all humans for 6000 years. But they prove
predictable. Many therefore choose to believe that divine or valuable
sacred and holy knowledge is strictly direct from God in a miraculous
personal contact manner or way. They refuse to believe that God is
knowledge for all men. It is the original issue of whether God has
created all things as he wants them to be, untampered by men, or he
accomplishes things thru men. The concept prevails that God chooses to
do things right without men, and that man should leave things alone,
rather than destroy everything, because man cannot be like God and do
things right. It ignores God using a Christ or a vessel to accomplish
things. It also ignores Jehovah proving that he created Man in his
image to be like him in being creative and learning and working and
building as he displays with all animals carrying out works. This is
why the division in perspective also exists with man’s view of
animals. Are animals all destructive, or are they all constructive? Or
who should control all this?
     With this in mind we learn that everything has process. A
mechanical and spiritual process of building or destroying. Science
helps us to see that much of what we regard as destruction is actually
a process to breakdown and destroy all things to build a surface or
topsoil. As Jesus said (referring to having your cake or eating your
cake), so much you cannot have both ways, you must sacrifice or lose
the seed to grow the tree. You play the risk that planting the seed,
it may rot, or sprout then dry up. It is a coin that will either grow
interest or sit doing nothing but give someone pride they own it.
     Knowledge which is gained after events were ignored are valuable
for the future to avoid being that way again. As 20/20 hindsight, all
is not shame. It can save the future. Because the Flood of Noah was
not a crushing smashing totally destructive force which would smash
the ark and break it in two, and because it was not an event that
would smash whales and dolphins and sea life to permanent death
requiring Noah to have two of all kinds (no matter how many
Creationists wish to demand Genesis words to be exact detail when
stating he must save all breathers with breath of life), we know the
Flood did not come in depths of 425 nor 275 feet per day for 40 days.
The truth Jehovah himself reveals outside the Bible yet discovered
only by the data that Bible gives in Genesis is the continents dropped
80 feet per day for 150 days.
     Accepting this, we are given the warning by Jehovah in the same
way he has warned us by striking the planet Jupiter with a comet.
Namely, he has given us the Indian Ocean tsunami by earthquake. That
tsunami was a single wave. But the Flood kept coming and coming and
coming. Why? Because the tectonics like the Indian Ocean kept rising
the ocean floor and rising and rising and rising while it kept
collapsing the continents more and more and more. This means the 80
feet per day is not a water flow figure rate but rather one of land
mass movement due to magma melting and moving and flowing under
ground. The total mantle surface under the crust of the whole planet
is not going to flow 100s of miles per hour. Watch any volcano flow
and most of them are escapable, especially with God’s blessing of
modern vehicles. Creationists will not only fabricate this scenario to
push the seven continents apart during the Flood, they even dare to
say this is an event for postFlood man walking the earth and dividing
the continents during Peleg’s days. (Put your seat belts, Doctor
DooLittle’s floating island is speed-boating again! No intent to mock
Creationism as if atheistic science doesn’t throw equally farfetched
in delusions.) But the fact remains all things are calculable. And in
this case, the question is at what rate does magma flow and is this
steady or is this pulsating. The Indian Ocean event is the answer. It
was basically instant, a pulse, a sudden jarring. So then how often
was this sudden jarring of Noah’s Flood?
     The answer is in how high this fault lifted; it was 45 feet. This
tells us that half of 80 feet per day occurred twice a day. By melting
the mantle under the crust, the Earth becomes susceptible to the tidal
forces of the moon and Earth swinging around each other. (Most people
do not know that the moon does not orbit around the center of the
Earth, but rather under the Earth’s surface facing the moon is the
point of Earth /moon center of mass where Earth and Moon orbit each
other, or swing around each other. This forces pulls crust and mantle
and earth just as much as it pulls water to make high tides. An
asteroid impact melting the mantle it will push up thin one mile ocean
floors before 12 mile land masses. And this will cause the mantle to
continue to melt due to release of weight upon it. This then causes a
flow of magma to the dome under the sea floor, which will continue
meltdown until it reaches center of continents. Then collapse! In
seven days is what Genesis says. Again the meltdown rate of 7 days to
center of each individual continent is totally coincidental and
unrelated to the fact that water vapor canopy collapse also reached
Asia 7 days after impact.
     Can man predict this? Well, Shem (or Melchizedek king of
righteousness after Noah died) was 550 years old when the prediction
of Sodom was made and came true. And the person had to have been right
about many predictions because the Bible calls him Jehovah which means
the one whose words prove always true. As you can see though, making a
prediction does not mean you are always correct in all things. So many
atheists and evangelists will jump on the words of Moses claiming they
mean if one thing fails then nothing the man says is of a true
prophet. If this is the proper interpretation, then Moses himself
should have been deserted or killed when things he did were wrong or
failed. The accounts clearly draw a division between what the people
thought were wrong (such as his having a nonJew Cushite wife) and what
he admits to as wrong (such as credit saying look what I have done for
you). For a certainty, when a man will not admit untrue faults of
liars picking for fault, then when that person does a wrong, the whole
world is told of it. No one allows anyone to be regarded as perfect
until they too can claim their sins have been washed away equally as
righteous. Until then they keep killing christ.
     So then does the data fit the Flood? You have the moon pulling up
on ocean floor a height of 40 feet of crust every 12.5 hours so that
mid-ocean high tide lifts  while at the same moment low tide effect is
over the crust and causes another 40 foot collapse. This answers the
question of rate being steady or pulsating during the Flood. The moon
being at 90° right angles to Mount Ararat and thus at moonrise or moon
set causes the collapse of 40 feet at that hour. The tidal force
assists the pull of magma from under continent to under ocean.
     As Genesis explains, this effect has ended in 150 days or
earlier. The water is draining as of that span, and thus proving the
continents are rising back up. But it was another 7 months before
Ararat air became too thin for preFlood humans to breathe. And the
December 1 winter (Gregorian Nov 11) was too cold to stay on the ark.
In celebration of New Years Day two months earlier by removing the
door, the ground was too muddy to get out, (Oct 6, Gregorian Sep 16,
which coincidentally happened to be absent new moon) now 56 days later
had to be evacuated quickly. And so they did so before absent moon
arrived three days later.
     Thus in the following chart the time of moon rise and moonset are
listed for the 40-foot uplifts of ocean floor causing 40-foot
continent collapse 300 times in 150 days. Thanks to the event of the
Indian Ocean, Jehovah has once again proven how everything occurs, as
those laws always will. This proves that if angels before the Flood
could not see how the Flood could occur, the reason is because they
had blinded themselves. But it also is due to perhaps Noah knew all
the water above required an ark, even globally as only 40 feet of
water vapor canopy.
(yawn)


ZZZZzzzzzzz...........


Remember the good ole days, when creationists at least TRIED to
pretend that they weren't just religious nuts?


================================================
Lenny Flank
"There are no loose threads in the web of life"

Editor, Red and Black Publishers
http://www.RedandBlackPublishers.com
John Smith
2009-06-01 21:03:07 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
"Elijahovah" <***@wi.rr.com> wrote in message news:66fb4f4a-fdaf-4b62-a626-***@z5g2000vba.googlegroups.com...
Indian Ocean Tsunami
reveals Lunar Flood Rate


In the Indian Ocean a fault or crack existed in the ocean flood.
Then in 2004 on Christmas Day Dec 25 an earthquake occurred due
causing one side of the fault to thrust up in less than 30 minutes to
a height of 45 feet for 200 miles long. This forced and shoved a wall
of water out across the ocean, not just on its surface to level the
ocean out, but within the body of water from sea floor to surface in a
shockwave producing a 30 foot wave on the surface that would strike
3000 miles of coastline. It happened in front of the eyes of
seismographs and satellites and was totally predictable as a wave of
destruction after the quake event.
The events that Noah predicted, and of predicting Sodom and
events Moses predicted are very small events in number to the millions
of death causing events to all humans for 6000 years. But they prove
predictable. Many therefore choose to believe that divine or valuable
sacred and holy knowledge is strictly direct from God in a miraculous
personal contact manner or way. They refuse to believe that God is
knowledge for all men. It is the original issue of whether God has
created all things as he wants them to be, untampered by men, or he
accomplishes things thru men. The concept prevails that God chooses to
do things right without men, and that man should leave things alone,
rather than destroy everything, because man cannot be like God and do
things right. It ignores God using a Christ or a vessel to accomplish
things. It also ignores Jehovah proving that he created Man in his
image to be like him in being creative and learning and working and
building as he displays with all animals carrying out works. This is
why the division in perspective also exists with man’s view of
animals. Are animals all destructive, or are they all constructive? Or
who should control all this?
With this in mind we learn that everything has process. A
mechanical and spiritual process of building or destroying. Science
helps us to see that much of what we regard as destruction is actually
a process to breakdown and destroy all things to build a surface or
topsoil. As Jesus said (referring to having your cake or eating your
cake), so much you cannot have both ways, you must sacrifice or lose
the seed to grow the tree. You play the risk that planting the seed,
it may rot, or sprout then dry up. It is a coin that will either grow
interest or sit doing nothing but give someone pride they own it.
Knowledge which is gained after events were ignored are valuable
for the future to avoid being that way again. As 20/20 hindsight, all
is not shame. It can save the future. Because the Flood of Noah was
not a crushing smashing totally destructive force which would smash
the ark and break it in two, and because it was not an event that
would smash whales and dolphins and sea life to permanent death
requiring Noah to have two of all kinds (no matter how many
Creationists wish to demand Genesis words to be exact detail when
stating he must save all breathers with breath of life), we know the
Flood did not come in depths of 425 nor 275 feet per day for 40 days.
The truth Jehovah himself reveals outside the Bible yet discovered
only by the data that Bible gives in Genesis is the continents dropped
80 feet per day for 150 days.
Accepting this, we are given the warning by Jehovah in the same
way he has warned us by striking the planet Jupiter with a comet.
Namely, he has given us the Indian Ocean tsunami by earthquake. That
tsunami was a single wave. But the Flood kept coming and coming and
coming. Why? Because the tectonics like the Indian Ocean kept rising
the ocean floor and rising and rising and rising while it kept
collapsing the continents more and more and more. This means the 80
feet per day is not a water flow figure rate but rather one of land
mass movement due to magma melting and moving and flowing under
ground. The total mantle surface under the crust of the whole planet
is not going to flow 100s of miles per hour. Watch any volcano flow
and most of them are escapable, especially with God’s blessing of
modern vehicles. Creationists will not only fabricate this scenario to
push the seven continents apart during the Flood, they even dare to
say this is an event for postFlood man walking the earth and dividing
the continents during Peleg’s days. (Put your seat belts, Doctor
DooLittle’s floating island is speed-boating again! No intent to mock
Creationism as if atheistic science doesn’t throw equally farfetched
in delusions.) But the fact remains all things are calculable. And in
this case, the question is at what rate does magma flow and is this
steady or is this pulsating. The Indian Ocean event is the answer. It
was basically instant, a pulse, a sudden jarring. So then how often
was this sudden jarring of Noah’s Flood?
The answer is in how high this fault lifted; it was 45 feet. This
tells us that half of 80 feet per day occurred twice a day. By melting
the mantle under the crust, the Earth becomes susceptible to the tidal
forces of the moon and Earth swinging around each other. (Most people
do not know that the moon does not orbit around the center of the
Earth, but rather under the Earth’s surface facing the moon is the
point of Earth /moon center of mass where Earth and Moon orbit each
other, or swing around each other. This forces pulls crust and mantle
and earth just as much as it pulls water to make high tides. An
asteroid impact melting the mantle it will push up thin one mile ocean
floors before 12 mile land masses. And this will cause the mantle to
continue to melt due to release of weight upon it. This then causes a
flow of magma to the dome under the sea floor, which will continue
meltdown until it reaches center of continents. Then collapse! In
seven days is what Genesis says. Again the meltdown rate of 7 days to
center of each individual continent is totally coincidental and
unrelated to the fact that water vapor canopy collapse also reached
Asia 7 days after impact.
Can man predict this? Well, Shem (or Melchizedek king of
righteousness after Noah died) was 550 years old when the prediction
of Sodom was made and came true. And the person had to have been right
about many predictions because the Bible calls him Jehovah which means
the one whose words prove always true. As you can see though, making a
prediction does not mean you are always correct in all things. So many
atheists and evangelists will jump on the words of Moses claiming they
mean if one thing fails then nothing the man says is of a true
prophet. If this is the proper interpretation, then Moses himself
should have been deserted or killed when things he did were wrong or
failed. The accounts clearly draw a division between what the people
thought were wrong (such as his having a nonJew Cushite wife) and what
he admits to as wrong (such as credit saying look what I have done for
you). For a certainty, when a man will not admit untrue faults of
liars picking for fault, then when that person does a wrong, the whole
world is told of it. No one allows anyone to be regarded as perfect
until they too can claim their sins have been washed away equally as
righteous. Until then they keep killing christ.
So then does the data fit the Flood? You have the moon pulling up
on ocean floor a height of 40 feet of crust every 12.5 hours so that
mid-ocean high tide lifts while at the same moment low tide effect is
over the crust and causes another 40 foot collapse. This answers the
question of rate being steady or pulsating during the Flood. The moon
being at 90° right angles to Mount Ararat and thus at moonrise or moon
set causes the collapse of 40 feet at that hour. The tidal force
assists the pull of magma from under continent to under ocean.
As Genesis explains, this effect has ended in 150 days or
earlier. The water is draining as of that span, and thus proving the
continents are rising back up. But it was another 7 months before
Ararat air became too thin for preFlood humans to breathe. And the
December 1 winter (Gregorian Nov 11) was too cold to stay on the ark.
In celebration of New Years Day two months earlier by removing the
door, the ground was too muddy to get out, (Oct 6, Gregorian Sep 16,
which coincidentally happened to be absent new moon) now 56 days later
had to be evacuated quickly. And so they did so before absent moon
arrived three days later.
Thus in the following chart the time of moon rise and moonset are
listed for the 40-foot uplifts of ocean floor causing 40-foot
continent collapse 300 times in 150 days. Thanks to the event of the
Indian Ocean, Jehovah has once again proven how everything occurs, as
those laws always will. This proves that if angels before the Flood
could not see how the Flood could occur, the reason is because they
had blinded themselves. But it also is due to perhaps Noah knew all
the water above required an ark, even globally as only 40 feet of
water vapor canopy.

*****************
Wow ......... what an extra large load of crap!
Tom McDonald
2009-06-02 01:08:45 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Elijahovah
Indian Ocean Tsunami
reveals Lunar Flood Rate
<snip>
Post by Elijahovah
Wow ......... what an extra large load of crap!
Wow! An extra large load of crap . . . unexpurgated, and now with
seven extra words!

Snip already.
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