Discussion:
Low Chronology "strata density" problems resolved!
(too old to reply)
Lars Wilson
2008-01-26 04:02:21 UTC
Permalink
Here is a brief general reference regarding "density of strata" problems
with the theories of Finkelstein, et al:

""The density of strata argument, raised by Mazar (1997: 163) and Ben-Tor
(2000). If the date of 10th-century BCE strata is lowered to the early 9th
century, too many strata are left in northern Israel for the relatively
short period of time until the Assyrian takeover in 732 BCE. There are
several answers to this argument: first, the traditional dating does the
same to earlier strata; second, the number of strata depends on the quality
of excavations; third, the history of border sites (such as Hazor-the
subject of Ben-Tor's complaint) was more turbulent then that of inland sites
(such as Megiddo)."

Both sides of the argument for Low and High Chronology claim there are
strata density problems. Case in point, Israel Finkelstein clearly notes
that the Philistine pottery period reaches "well into the 10th century BCE."
This conflicts with David following on the heels of that pottery period when
he is dated from 1010-970 BCE. One solution is to end the Philistine
pottery period earlier c. 1010 BCE, but Finkelstein would claim "density of
strata" for this period.

On the other end "density of strata" is charged against Finkelstein for his
solution for Low Chronology when he assigns Megiddo strata VA-IVB and Rehov
City IV to an invasion by Hazeal c. 835 BCE, rather than 925 BCE by Shishak.
Here is an explanation of what is occurring.

Basically, the conventional chronology for the Assyrian Period is set by the
Assyrian Eponym. There are about 249 years from the battle of Qarqar to the
beginning end of the Assyrian Period (853-604BCE). Likewise the
conventional dating now in place from the end of the Assyrian Period to
Shishak's invasion in 925 BCE is 321 years.

The 321 years is "relative" chronology. When Israel Finkelstein moves the
relative chronology normally assigned to Shishak from 925 BCE to 835 BCE and
assigned to Hazeal, he is moving that specific strata down in time 90 years!
That is, Finkelstein is removing 90 years from the 321 years, reducing that
period from 321 years to 231 years! This makes the various strata which
had fit rather comfortably over the 321-year period rather dense when
squeezed into a period some 90 years later.

DENSITY PROBLEMS RESOLVED BY RC14 AND GREEK HISTORY CORRECTION: However,
the "strata density" issue disappears completely when you combine RC14 from
Rehov and a corrected Greek timeline. Howso? Because when you correct the
Greek timeline, the eclipse used to date the entire Assyrian Period changes
from 763 BCE to 709 BCE. That means Shishak's invasion in 925 BCE drops
down to 871 BCE, but the same 321-year interval remains in place. There is
no "strata density" issues for the Assyrian Period.

Likewise, once David's reign is moved down from 1010 to 950 BCE by this same
adjustment, there is no "strata density" issue for that period either, since
the Philistine pottery period can indeed easily extend "well into the 10th
century BCE" (1000-975BCE) without any conflict with David.

Therefore, again, there is really no *archaeological* issue going on here,
just a chronology issue, but one that cannot be solved unless it is
understood by archaeologists that the discrepancy of about 54 years that
they are seeing when comparing the absolute dating from stratigraphy and
RC14 compared to the timeline, are extra years added by the Greeks during
the reign of Artaxerxes II.

Xenophon, who edited Thudycides, added 30 years between the two wars
(Persian and Peloponnesian) and moved an eclipse event beginning the PPW
from 402 to 431 BCE. This added 28 additional fake years to the Greek
timeline, a total of 58 years. This pushed back events in time by 58
years, but when the Battle of Salamis, which occurred at the time of Xerxes'
invasion ended up in 482 BCE, which was a non-Olympic year, it got adjusted
down to 480 BCE where it is now. That reduced the gross 58-year expansion
down to 56 years.

This, in turn, impacted the dating of the Neo-Babylonian Period, also
distorted by these 56 years. The VAT4956, though, confirms a 57-year
distortion for year 37 of Nebuchadnezzar. This is likely due to the
reduction of Nebuchadnezzar's reign by 1 year since the events occurring
during his accession year were combined with his first first year events in
the revised "Babylonian Chornicle" which itself notes it was copied in the
22nd year of Darius (II), likely shortly after the death of Artaxerxes I
(father of Darius II). The VAT4956, created much later during the Seleucid
Period, hides the references to the original chronology in a text that was
made to reflect the new chronology for year 37 of Nebuchadnezzar in 568 BCE.
It was a "hide in plain sight" tactic where the 511 BCE references appear as
errors of several hours for two lunar observations in Lines 3 and 14. The
casual reader would ignore the "errors" but when critically examined, they
point to the same lunar cycle and year of 511 BCE. The references are too
technical and astrocorrect to have been an unintentional error. This
confirms the original dating for the reign of Nebuchadnezzar. This
57-year distortion became a 54-year distortion when the 763 BCE eclipse was
substituted for the "Simanu" (month 3) eclipse of 709 BCE. Thus the entire
Assyrian Period and Shishak's invasion which is based on this fixed dating
is 54 years too early. Shishak's invasion is dated to 925 BCE.

But as noted, when archaeologists digging in various places and using RC14
dating to assist them were able to improve upon the timeline for this
period, then it was clear the buildings associated with Solomon and the
destruction associated with Shishak was occurring much later. However,
precisely 54 years later! When grain samples from Rehov's destructive
level City IV were tested, they pointed to the highest probability c. 871
BCE. This is the level associated with Shishak's invasion. When the
timeline is corrected and the 709 BCE eclipse is replaced to date the
Assyrian Period, then Shishak's invasion in 925 BCE drops down to 871 BCE,
precisely to where the probability RC14 testing is pointing.

CONCLUSION: The improvement in RC14 technique and pottery dating have
become specific enough to effectively show up the 54-year distortion
resulting from Greek Period revisions. Therefore, has little to do with
actual archaeology, but historical revisionism and not recognizing this.
Thus once an effective dismissal of Xenophon and his revisions takes place
by scholars dealing with the Classical Greek Period, then the extra years
will automatically be removed. Xerxes and Artaxerxes will be confirmed to
be the same king, as the Bible has always indicated, and the NB and Assyrian
tiemlines will be readjusted by astronomical texts, dropping Shishak's
invasion to the RC14-correct time of 871 BCE. All the while, though, the
Egyptian timeline and the fall of Jericho will remain dated where they
already are, as they were not affected by the Greek Period revisions.
Those additional 54 years only affect chronology back to the time of
Shishak. Between Shishak and the 18th and 19th Dynasties there is a break
in the Egyptian timeline. Thus the earlier Dynasties are dated based upon
stratigraphy and RC14 dating rather than a fixed historical timeline based
on an eclipse, as the Assyrian through the Persian Period timeline is. Only
now we have corrected eclipses and astronomical data to restore the original
timeline.

Lars

(New!) Corrected Timeline Outline:

http://www.geocities.com/siaxares/709guide.html
JTEM
2008-01-26 08:23:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lars Wilson
Here is
Wow, our resident obsessive-compulsive is back... still not
quite getting it.

See, retard, usenet works exactly the OPPOSITE of the
way you seem to believe. The more you flood a group with
off topic nonsense and kook theories, the LESS likely anyone
is going to read a word you say.

You make it worth it for even the laziest people to stuff you in
their killfiles.

Volume is a *Killer*.
Lars Wilson
2008-01-26 09:05:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by JTEM
Post by Lars Wilson
Here is
Wow, our resident obsessive-compulsive is back... still not
quite getting it.
See, retard, usenet works exactly the OPPOSITE of the
way you seem to believe. The more you flood a group with
off topic nonsense and kook theories, the LESS likely anyone
is going to read a word you say.
You make it worth it for even the laziest people to stuff you in
their killfiles.
Volume is a *Killer*.
I post research data for the smart people. I could care less for the
braindead like yourself. The KEY is access. I'm not trying to win a
popularity contest. This is too advanced for the average person anyway.
People who want to get informed and join the cutting edge will read, and if
doubtful investigate. People like you living in a fantasy world that ever
so dark will ignore me.

So please, I beg you, close you mind shut and IGNORE ME!

Thanks, JT!! Lightweights like you are a joke.

Lars Wilson
JTEM
2008-01-26 09:47:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lars Wilson
I post
We know what you post. The stuff that isn't a flat out
lie you misrepresent.

Seriously, you worthless crank, if you had actual data
behind you, why would you feel it necessary to constantly
lie about Kathleen Kenyon?
Lars Wilson
2008-01-26 19:22:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by JTEM
Post by Lars Wilson
I post
We know what you post. The stuff that isn't a flat out
lie you misrepresent.
Seriously, you worthless crank, if you had actual data
behind you, why would you feel it necessary to constantly
lie about Kathleen Kenyon?
I see where this is going. I QUOTE her to back up my claims, but you do
not. So I guess what she says about the LBA fall of Jericho is an important
issue for you, though I cannot possibly seem to think why, since you
obviously don't have a clear grasp of very many issues. I can only think,
therefore, that it has something to do with distancing the Exodus from
Akhenaten. So I guess I'll have to post something else linking him to the
Exodus since that seems to be what you're trying to cover up. ??
Otherwise, you make little sense.

Lars Wilson
JTEM
2008-01-27 04:25:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lars Wilson
I see where this is going.
Pretty good... considering that it arrived about two years
ago...

You DO NOT quote, you lie. You flat out lied.
Lars Wilson
2008-01-27 09:36:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by JTEM
Post by Lars Wilson
I see where this is going.
Pretty good... considering that it arrived about two years
ago...
You DO NOT quote, you lie. You flat out lied.
Ha! You can't like when you post the raw data. Just like this RC14 chart
from City IV of Rehov.... Showing how 925 BCE doesn't work but 871 BCE is
bang on target. The corrected timeline adjusts the Assyrian Period by
eclipse. The 709 BCE eclipse changes Shishak's invasion from 925 BCE to 871
BCE, precisely where the most advanced RC14 technique is pointing!

Loading Image... (comparison 871 vs 925
BCE)

Lars Wilson

(New!) Corrected Timeline Outline:
http://www.geocities.com/siaxares/709guide.html
JTEM
2008-01-27 12:55:31 UTC
Permalink
Ha!  You can't like when you post the raw data.
*I* can't like when I post the raw data? That's why you
have to lie...
 Just like this RC14 chart from City IV of Rehov....
The RC14 exactly matched Kenyon's dating.

See what I mean?

You're playing a shell game. Now I don't know (and
don't care) about your "Rehov," but I do care about
the way that you're trying to use it to cover youe lies.

I pointed out that you lied about Kenyon. You did lie.
The truth about Kenyon and her findings alone is
enough to disprove you. Which is why you SUDDENLY
respect carbon dating!

But not in the case of Kenyon.

Because Kenyon's dating was CONFIRMED by the
carbon dating.
Lars Wilson
2008-01-27 18:17:47 UTC
Permalink
Ha! You can't like when you post the raw data.
*I* can't like when I post the raw data? That's why you
have to lie...
Just like this RC14 chart from City IV of Rehov....
The RC14 exactly matched Kenyon's dating.
See what I mean?
You're playing a shell game. Now I don't know (and
don't care) about your "Rehov," but I do care about
the way that you're trying to use it to cover youe lies.
I pointed out that you lied about Kenyon. You did lie.
The truth about Kenyon and her findings alone is
enough to disprove you. Which is why you SUDDENLY
respect carbon dating!
But not in the case of Kenyon.
Because Kenyon's dating was CONFIRMED by the
carbon dating.

MORE HANDWAVING? So it seems you do know a little. But a little knowledge
they say, can be dangerous. For your information the MBA city that sports
the walls had large grain stores found that were dated using RC14 that
confirmed the 1570-1530 period for that destruction. But that has nothing
to do with when she claims the Israelites destroyed Jericho. You are
trying to connect the MBA destroyed city with a second occupied LBA city (c.
1400) destroyed 1350-1325 BCE per Kenyon. It is this level that Kenyon
associates with the Israelites. Therefore, it is clear that you are
CONFUSED and think I'm lying. But I'm not. Here are her pertinent quotes
again, which I suggest you actually READ before you comment further. I give
the source, which is her book. If you think I'm misquoting from the book
then go verify it before calling me a liar. DO YOUR HOMEWORK FIRST!

If after this you still accuse me of me of "lying" then it will be apparent
you're just too dumb to sort this all out. Based on your comments I really
have little to go on to dissuade that perception. Here's the quotes:

Kathleen Kenyon: Digging Up Jericho, Jericho and the Coming of the
Israelites, page 262:

"As concerns the date of the destruction of Jericho by the Israelites, all
that can be said is that the latest Bronze Age occupation should, in my
view, be dated to the third quarter of the fourteenth century B.C. This is a
date which suits neither the school of scholars which would date the entry
of the Israelites into Palestine to c. 1400 B.C. nor the school which
prefers a date of c. 1260 B.C."

Page 261 of her book, "Digging Up Jericho," in the Chapter called "Jericho
And Coming Of The Israelites," she says:

"It is a sad fact that of the town walls of the Late Bronze Age, within
which period the attack by the Israelites must fall by any dating, not a
trace remains."


Lars
http://www.geocities.com/siaxares/709guide.html
JTEM
2008-01-28 07:31:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lars Wilson
Page 261 of her book, "Digging Up Jericho," in the Chapter
Well, dishonest skank, we could go with a single "quote" peeled
from all context, or we can go with what every decent scholar
and historian accepts as fact -- which is Kenyon's actual
conclusion, FOR PAGE 262 OF THE BOOK:

: "As concerns the date of the destruction of Jericho by the
: Israelites, all that can be said is that the latest Bronze Age
: occupation should, in my view, be dated to the third quarter
: of the fourteenth century B.C. This is a date which suits
: neither the school of scholars which would date the entry of
: the Israelites into Palestine to c. 1400 B.C. nor the school
: which prefers a date of c. 1260 B.C."

At best, you ripped Kenyon's words out of context, AGAIN,
in order to misrepresent her as supporting your nonsense.

YOU LIED.

It's important to mention here that Kenyon WAS NOT an
atheist nor a secularist. She considered herself "Christian"
and was disappointed that she could not find ANY evidence
for a literally true bible.
Lars Wilson
2008-01-29 15:28:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lars Wilson
Page 261 of her book, "Digging Up Jericho," in the Chapter
Kenyon didn't have the advantage of an accurate Biblical timeline like we do
now. The Exodus occurs within her Jericho timeline.

Lars Wilson
JTEM
2008-01-29 18:39:00 UTC
Permalink
"Lars Wilson" <***@embarqmail.com> wrote:
[the sock puppet quotes itself]
Post by Lars Wilson
Page 261 of her book, "Digging Up Jericho," in the Chapter
Kenyon spelled out her conclusions on page 262. How convenient
that you would begin -- and end -- your quoting one page earlier,
all in an overt attempt to make it appear that she agreed with your
nonsense.

You're a dishonest skank.
k***@gmail.com
2008-01-29 19:33:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by JTEM
[the sock puppet quotes itself]
Post by Lars Wilson
Page 261 of her book, "Digging Up Jericho," in the Chapter
Kenyon spelled out her conclusions on page 262. How convenient
that you would begin -- and end -- your quoting one page earlier,
all in an overt attempt to make it appear that she agreed with your
nonsense.
You're a dishonest skank.
Yes. He has admitted that his 'research' involves looking for proof
texts to support his ideas, not looking at all the evidence with an
eye to adjusting or rejecting parts of his theses based on all of the
evidence.

He's a quote-miner, pure and simple. The way he tries to use the
CHART! of 14C dates from Tel Rehov Level IV without recourse to the
article within which it is embedded speaks volumes about his methods.
JTEM
2008-01-30 03:24:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by k***@gmail.com
Yes. He has admitted that his 'research' involves looking
for proof texts to support his ideas, not looking at all the
evidence with an eye to adjusting or rejecting parts of his
theses based on all of the evidence.
He's also into the volume thing. i mean, over in
alt.history.ancient-egypt, a group with low activity, the idiot
has already posted some 44 articles this month alone!

And, yeah, every last one of them is a rehashing of claims
that were refuted back in 1996.

He simply waited more than a year and a half, and then
re-flooded the group with the exact same crap all over
again.

k***@gmail.com
2008-01-27 20:08:12 UTC
Permalink
<sci.archaeology added because, hell, not doing so only helps Lars
escape discussion>
Post by Lars Wilson
Post by JTEM
Post by Lars Wilson
I see where this is going.
Pretty good... considering that it arrived about two years
ago...
You DO NOT quote, you lie. You flat out lied.
Ha! You can't like when you post the raw data. Just like this RC14 chart
from City IV of Rehov.... Showing how 925 BCE doesn't work but 871 BCE is
bang on target. The corrected timeline adjusts the Assyrian Period by
eclipse. The 709 BCE eclipse changes Shishak's invasion from 925 BCE to 871
BCE, precisely where the most advanced RC14 technique is pointing!
http://www.geocities.com/siaxares/REHOVPROB.JPG (comparison 871 vs 925
BCE)
Here's some of the rest of the story. Odd you didn't reference this,
Lars, as I posted this to sci.archaeology three days ago:
-----------
If this isn't beating the ground where, once upon a time, a horse was,
I just got the book, _The Bible and Radiocarbon Dating: Archaeology,
Text and Science_ 2005, edited by Levy, Thomas E. and Thomas Higham,
Equinox Publishing Ltd., London and Oakville, CT, ISBN 184553056X
(hardcover); ISBN 1845530578 (paperback).

I could have saved myself the trouble, and my local library the ILL
charges. It is on-line, as I think someone else noted.

Here's the link to the relevant chapter, 15, 'The Groningen
Radiocarbon Series from Tel Rehov: OxCal Bayesian computations for the
Iron IBIIA Boundary and Iron IIA destruction events'.

http://www.rehov.org/Rehov/publications/Groningen%20Radiocarbon%20Series%20from%20Tel%20Rehov.pdf

Or:

http://tinyurl.com/3d7k44

The chapter gives a great deal of data about the radiocarbon dating
from Tel Rehov, including some relatively raw data. But here is the
short discussion of the chart, or rather the CHART!, Figure 15.B, from
that chapter, that Lars has been trying to tell us does not need
context:

"The Destruction Event that Terminated the City of Stratum IV
The radiocarbon dates available for Stratum IV relate only to the
destruction at the end of City IV's lifespan. The availability of
samples for radiocarbon dating in archaeology are, unfortunately,
more likely to come from fires or destruction events than from
ordinary daily life. The sampled Bayesian destruction date of City IV
(Fig. 15.8) has the highest probability in the 1 sigma range of
903-892 (13.4%),885-845 BCE(54.8%), extended in the 2 sigma range to
918-823 BCE.Though it seems very unlikely that the Shishak campaign
would have been responsible for the destruction of City IV, there are
various other candidates later in time. As there are no younger Iron
Age stratigraphic data from Tel Rehov, the available 14C data are
insufficient to favour a certain decade within the above 2 sigma range
of 920-815 BCE. The sampled Bayesian time-span for City IV is 28-55
years in the
1 sigma and 2 sigma ranges, respectively (Fig. 15.8)."
----------

Still insist you don't need any context to understand your CHART,
Lars?

If so, you are wrong.
Lars Wilson
2008-01-27 22:45:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by k***@gmail.com
<sci.archaeology added because, hell, not doing so only helps Lars
escape discussion>
Post by Lars Wilson
Post by JTEM
Post by Lars Wilson
I see where this is going.
Pretty good... considering that it arrived about two years
ago...
You DO NOT quote, you lie. You flat out lied.
Ha! You can't like when you post the raw data. Just like this RC14 chart
from City IV of Rehov.... Showing how 925 BCE doesn't work but 871 BCE is
bang on target. The corrected timeline adjusts the Assyrian Period by
eclipse. The 709 BCE eclipse changes Shishak's invasion from 925 BCE to 871
BCE, precisely where the most advanced RC14 technique is pointing!
http://www.geocities.com/siaxares/REHOVPROB.JPG (comparison 871 vs 925
BCE)
Here's some of the rest of the story. Odd you didn't reference this,
-----------
If this isn't beating the ground where, once upon a time, a horse was,
I just got the book, _The Bible and Radiocarbon Dating: Archaeology,
Text and Science_ 2005, edited by Levy, Thomas E. and Thomas Higham,
Equinox Publishing Ltd., London and Oakville, CT, ISBN 184553056X
(hardcover); ISBN 1845530578 (paperback).
I could have saved myself the trouble, and my local library the ILL
charges. It is on-line, as I think someone else noted.
Here's the link to the relevant chapter, 15, 'The Groningen
Radiocarbon Series from Tel Rehov: OxCal Bayesian computations for the
Iron IBIIA Boundary and Iron IIA destruction events'.
http://www.rehov.org/Rehov/publications/Groningen%20Radiocarbon%20Series%20from%20Tel%20Rehov.pdf
http://tinyurl.com/3d7k44
The chapter gives a great deal of data about the radiocarbon dating
from Tel Rehov, including some relatively raw data. But here is the
short discussion of the chart, or rather the CHART!, Figure 15.B, from
that chapter, that Lars has been trying to tell us does not need
"The Destruction Event that Terminated the City of Stratum IV
The radiocarbon dates available for Stratum IV relate only to the
destruction at the end of City IV's lifespan. The availability of
samples for radiocarbon dating in archaeology are, unfortunately,
more likely to come from fires or destruction events than from
ordinary daily life. The sampled Bayesian destruction date of City IV
(Fig. 15.8) has the highest probability in the 1 sigma range of
903-892 (13.4%),885-845 BCE(54.8%), extended in the 2 sigma range to
918-823 BCE.Though it seems very unlikely that the Shishak campaign
would have been responsible for the destruction of City IV, there are
various other candidates later in time. As there are no younger Iron
Age stratigraphic data from Tel Rehov, the available 14C data are
insufficient to favour a certain decade within the above 2 sigma range
of 920-815 BCE. The sampled Bayesian time-span for City IV is 28-55
years in the
1 sigma and 2 sigma ranges, respectively (Fig. 15.8)."
----------
Still insist you don't need any context to understand your CHART,
Lars?
If so, you are wrong.
Thanks so much. The CHART is SIMPLE. It gives you the results of
multi-testing and compares that to dates against "Relative Probability".
The
chart is simple. All you do is look at what years have the highest
probability.

No matter what, certain dates, 874-867 BCE are shown being with the very
highest "relative probability." That's a narrower range than 918-823 BCE.

That simply means the highest probability to the "true date" is observed to
consistently
point to the center of the range. 871 BCE is the center of the range of
823-918 BCE.

So continue your DENIAL of the evidence if you want. The CHART shows the
peaks
over the years. Archaeologists or others can decide how significant that is
or not.

But NOTE, when the assessment says: "Though it seems very unlikely that the
Shishak campaign
Post by k***@gmail.com
would have been responsible for the destruction of City IV, there are
various other candidates later in time." The ONLY reason for this
statement is because
the current dating for Shishak's campaign is 925 BCE and the RC14 dating is
substantially lower
than that, with the focal dating occurring in 871 BCE. Mentioning that
there are other candidates
"later" also indicates that the specific dating to 871 BCE does not satisfy
a particular historical
candidate using the erroneous Assyrian timeline which is 54 years too early.
The only two candidates
for this destructive level are the Israelites, perhaps Jehu's campaign, or
as preferred by Finkelstein,
the campain of Hazael. But this is is a JOKE because we know that Xenophon
added 58 years
to the timeline that affected the redating of the Assyrian Period, moving it
54 years earlier than
it should be. When you remove those extra 54 years, look what happens to
Shishak? He moves
down in time from 925 BCE to 871 BCE. It's just that simple.

Since you obviously don't understand what is going on, you're in no position
to criticize me because
I do.

As I said, some people in the academic world are total knuckleheads and you
can't show them anything
or get them to think on their own. They only know what others tell them to
think. If you ask them
an opinion they will say, "Wait, let me take a poll and I'll let you know
what I think." They know little
independently, only collectively; whatever, the concensus is.

So definitely, as more scholars of Greek history and Assyriologists begin to
appreciate the VAT4956
and SK400 which hides references to the original chronology, they will
eventually be forced to deal with
the 709 BCE-based Assyrian Period and the reduced Persian Period. When they
do, then Shishak will
match perfectly where the RC14 dating points.

Even so I've INFECTED YOU by simply telling you not only the Assyrian Period
is misdated, but shown
you how to correct the timeline. It's one thing to claim there is a
discrepancy and quite another to show
you how to fix it.

IN OTHER WORDS: If I'm right (which I am) then you're playing the town idiot
right now. You remain
the town idiot until you prove me wrong. Prove that Xenophon did not revise
Thucydides, prove that
Plato and Aristotle didn't help him! Prove that Aristotle and Plato were
not lovers. In fact, I found
something brand new for YOU!

You see, when Xenophon moved the PPW back in time to match another eclipse,
Suddenly the 8-year
gay relationship between Socrates and Aristotle was impossible. Socrates
now died 15 years before
Aristotle was born. Therefore, the character of "Phaedo" who serves as the
historical marker for the
relationship between Socrates and Plato comes under scrutiny. Phaedo would
be a fake individual.

When we compare Phaedo and Aristitle we find these similarities:

1) Both were orphaned around 10.
2) Both were fostered by someone who taught them poetry and philsophy.
3) Both were turned over to Plato at around age 17-18.
4) Phaedo was chosen by Socrates because he was beautiful. Aristotle has
classically good looks.
5) Both are said to have opened a school at some point.

None of "Phaedo's" works survive. I just found this quote TODAY while
researching this further. This
links Aristotle to Phaedo one step closer:

"A story is told of Plato giving a reading of his Phaedo, a purported record
of Socrates' last day. The dialogue is moving and solemn. As Plato was
reading, however, his audience gradually melted away. In the end, Aristotle
alone was left. Probably fictitious, the anecdote was invented to express a
truth:
Aristotle was, in fact, spellbound by the Socratic doctrine of immortality
as expounded by Plato. It not only interested him intellectually but also
absorbed him emotionally.

From: http://www.spaceship-earth.org/Biograph/Aristotle.htm

OR this could be a cryptic reference to "insiders" who know that Phaedo was
the invention of Plato, Xenophon and Aristotle as a substitute person for
Aristotle himself! So when this comes under investigation, that Socrates
and Aristotle/Phaedo were lovers, then everything connecting them and the
similaries start to stand out, mostly the fact that Aristotle references
Socrates in his writings over 80 times! He even quotes him. So there is
no problem moving Socrates down in time and having him overlap with the life
of Aristotle. Add to that "The Delian Problem" where it seems presumed
that Plato was an adult when the Peloponnesian War began. With numerous
other contradictions like Archytas knowing people who died before he was
born. ALL of this points to the same presumption of an expanded Greek
Period.

All these little loose ends add up. Xenphon claims to have known Socrates
in his youth and that he was in attendance at the Symposium. He would have
been 8 years old. Plato's brothers were the same age as Socrates who claims
he knew Plato when he was a youth. Right now those brothers are 40+ years
older than Plato and would have been in their fifties still at home when
Plato was about 10 years of age!! Plato with brothers old enough to be his
grandfather? When the timeline is corrected though, Socrates is born in
435 BCE and is just 7 years older than Plato. Thus when Plato was about
10, Socrates and Plato's brothers would have been abound 17 and 18, which
fits the scenario of them being still at home and aware of a precocious
10-year-old.

Or there is the case of Hippocrates, the father of medicine, and his
writings. He was right in the middle of the 58-year expansion, so his
writings relate to events that now are 100 years apart. So they presume he
didn't write everything attributed to him. But what happens to his life
when you remove those 58 years? Suddenly his 100-year career is now only 40
or 50 years long, which is within normal.

FACE REALITY. Why would Xenophon revise Greek history? If it interfered
with Persian history revisions, why wouldn't he. But look how quickly he
gets indicted for this. He was very "Medized", very into Persian history.
He even wrote "Cyropaedia" the history of Cyrus. Why is a Greek historian
focussing on Persian history so much? Plus it is clear he redacted
Thucydides, scholars have already established that. He is credited with
helping to "publish" Thucydides.

Then there is the issue of Socrates' dialogues. Why do Plato and Xenophon
publish his dialogues, written in the first person as if Socrates wrote
them. We think at first, how nice of both of these to preserve these
dialogues. But were they preserving or EDITING? Socrates had to be
edited, likely because his writings reflected knowing people from a later
time, such as Aristotle. Those documents had to be destroyed. They didn't
want to destroy his dialogues though, so both of them published them to make
sure they were not lost. Thus Plato must have gotten paid off by the
Persians via Xenophon to make these revisions as well.

MONEY RULES! We know how this works. All the Persians did was hire a
Greek historian to change and revise Greek history. They had the money to
buy up old copies of whatever they wanted to change and then destroy them.
It wasn't that difficult.

But at the end of the day, even the revisionists enjoy leaving little clues
to the original chronology in their work. So a specific eclipse event
beginning the Peloponnesian War is specifically described so that it is a
mis-match for 431 BCE and matches a later eclipse that allows us to redate
the PPW to 403 BCE. When that happens, everything falls into place.
Socrates dies in 366 BCE when both "Phaedo" and "Aristotle" are 17-18 years
of age. Plato is 25 when the war begins instead of not born for 3 years
when he is consulted about the Delian Problem.

When you remove the 58 fake years from the Greek Period, and label Plato,
Aristotle and Xenphon as traitors to the Persians, being bought off for
money, then the timeline self-corrects. The impact on the Shishak debate
also gets corrected though. Shishak's invasion gets moved down historically
to where it belongs, to 871 BCE, where the RC14 dating is pointing. By the
way, even if you don't want to believe the chart, the assessment still
excludes Shishak as being a candidate for destroying level City IV at Rehov,
that's because 925 BCE is clearly out of the range of the RC14 dating, even
if 871 BCE is not specified. 925 BCE occurs before the 918-823BCE 2-sigma
range, and is thus considered unlikely.

BUT, BY ALL MEANS, IGNORE ALL THIS NOW and wait until some professor who
realizes what is going on gives you permission to accept that the Greek
Period was revised at the instigation of the Persians. Better a late
bloomer than never, I suppose.

Lars Wilson

http://www.geocities.com/siaxares/709guide.html
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