Architect claims to solve pyramid secret

[Roger Bagula]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070331/ap_on_sc/france_pyramid_theory
http://news.yahoo.com/photos/ss/events/sc/033007pyramids/p:9;_ylt=AhMOS4qHEQYC7h1MpnhUDNLlWMcF?sp=6000


Architect claims to solve pyramid secret

By LAURENCE JOAN-GRANGE, Associated Press WriterSat Mar 31, 4:37 AM ET

A French architect claimed Friday to have uncovered the mystery about
how Egypt's Great Pyramid of Khufu was built — with use of a spiral ramp
to hoist huge stone blocks into place.

The construction of the Great Pyramid 4,500 years ago by Khufu, a ruler
also known as Cheops, has long befuddled scientists as to how its 3
million stone blocks weighing 2.5 tons each were lifted into place.

Ending eight years of study on the subject, architect Jean-Pierre Houdin
released his findings and a computerized 3-D mockup showing how workers
would have erected the pyramid at Giza outside Cairo.

The most widespread theory had been that an outer ramp had been used by
the Egyptians, who left few traces to help archeologists and other
scientists decode the secret to the construction.

Houdin said he had taken into account the copper and stone tools
available at the time, the granite and limestone blocks, the location of
the pyramid and the strength and knowledge of the workers.

According to his theory — shown in a computer model available at
http://www.3ds.com/khufu — the builders put up an outer ramp for the
first 140 feet, then constructed an inner ramp in a corkscrew shape to
complete the 450-foot structure.

Houdin also postulated that King's Chamber was hoisted into place
through a system of counterweights.

Houdin said he plans to verify his theories through non-invasive tests
on site.

Copyright © 2007 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. The
information contained in the AP News report may not be published,
broadcast, rewritten or redistributed without the prior written
authority of The Associated Press.
Copyright © 2007 Yahoo! Inc. All Rights Reserved. Privacy Policy | Terms
of Service | Send Feedback | Help

[Eugene Griessel]

Post by Roger Bagula
Architect claims to solve pyramid secret
By LAURENCE JOAN-GRANGE, Associated Press WriterSat Mar 31, 4:37 AM ET
A French architect claimed Friday to have uncovered the mystery about
how Egypt's Great Pyramid of Khufu was built — with use of a spiral ramp
to hoist huge stone blocks into place.
The construction of the Great Pyramid 4,500 years ago by Khufu, a ruler
also known as Cheops, has long befuddled scientists as to how its 3
million stone blocks weighing 2.5 tons each were lifted into place.
Ending eight years of study on the subject, architect Jean-Pierre Houdin
released his findings and a computerized 3-D mockup showing how workers
would have erected the pyramid at Giza outside Cairo.
The most widespread theory had been that an outer ramp had been used by
the Egyptians, who left few traces to help archeologists and other
scientists decode the secret to the construction.
Houdin said he had taken into account the copper and stone tools
available at the time, the granite and limestone blocks, the location of

t>he pyramid and the strength and knowledge of the workers.

Post by Roger Bagula
According to his theory — shown in a computer model available at
http://www.3ds.com/khufu — the builders put up an outer ramp for the
first 140 feet, then constructed an inner ramp in a corkscrew shape to
complete the 450-foot structure.

Yet one more unprovable theory - and I'm not too sure it hasn't been
proposed before amongst the dozens of theories about internal and
external ramps. By 43 metres (his 140 feet) the pyramid is 65%
complete - and one is at the bottom of the Kings chamber. I think
most proposals include a direct straight external ramp from the quarry
to the pyramid up to this point. Increasing the ramp height much above
that begins to consume more labour and material than the pyramid
itself and is not efficient. Shortly after this level, round about
course 47, the stones themselves start to get much smaller - slightly
over a ton each and then generally reduce in size. So lifting them
becomes less of a problem. Most major theorists propose an external
spiral ramp from this course upwards - and it makes sense in terms of
efficiency and usage of labour. An internal spiral ramp could also
have been used but it involves much more complications and its
advantages are not all that clear.

Ultimately, unless some depictions of pyramid building are unearthed,
it will all be conjecture and a case of weighing up likely against
less likely methods.

Post by Roger Bagula
Houdin also postulated that King's Chamber was hoisted into place
through a system of counterweights.

This is also not new - Mark Lehner has explored this option rather
thoroughly as well.


Eugene L Griessel

It is better to be violent, if there is violence in our hearts,
than to put on the cloak of non-violence to cover impotence.
- Mahatma Gandhi

[JTEM]

Post by Eugene Griessel
Yet one more unprovable theory -

Well, hey! There is ONE theory that is not only
(at least potenitally) falsifiable, but doesn't
involve space aliens, Atlantis or baghdad-battery
powered lightbulbs.

Damn, can't recall his name, but one guy is
suggesting that they built the core first, and
then built the rest of the pyramid around it.

Okay, so it isn't very precise, trying to explain
the exact means the large blocks were moved, but
it's a start...

Supposedly his observations regarding the queen's
pyramids led him to the idea, a means to test his
theory.

Again, can't recall the guys name.... maybe someone
else can?

[Eugene Griessel]

Post by JTEM

Post by Eugene Griessel
Yet one more unprovable theory -

Well, hey! There is ONE theory that is not only
(at least potenitally) falsifiable, but doesn't
involve space aliens, Atlantis or baghdad-battery
powered lightbulbs.

There is that to it.

Post by JTEM
Damn, can't recall his name, but one guy is
suggesting that they built the core first, and
then built the rest of the pyramid around it.

If you look at Meidum, not too difficult to see why.

Post by JTEM
Okay, so it isn't very precise, trying to explain
the exact means the large blocks were moved, but
it's a start...

The mechanics of moving the blocks are more or less known. The
details are what is being quibbled about.

Post by JTEM
Supposedly his observations regarding the queen's
pyramids led him to the idea, a means to test his
theory.
Again, can't recall the guys name.... maybe someone
else can?

Read Craig Smith's "How the Great Pyramid" was built. Mark Lehner's
"The Complete Pyramids" has a brief discussion on various ramp styles.
These are more completely explored in other works.

But what I am saying is that unless we find a copy of the "Illustrated
Record of how we built the Pyramid" by Hemiunu it is all informed
conjecture. The ancient texts simply do not describe pyramid building
- all the theories of how it was achieved are from inferences.

But there is no "mystery" as such - if one defines the word mystery as
"secret" or "inexplicable". We have a very good broad idea of how the
pyramids were built. What we do not know is precisely the details of
how it was done.

Eugene L Griessel

It is better to be violent, if there is violence in our hearts,
than to put on the cloak of non-violence to cover impotence.
- Mahatma Gandhi

[Elijahovah]

Post by JTEM

Post by Eugene Griessel
Yet one more unprovable theory -

Well, hey! There is ONE theory that is not only
(at least potenitally) falsifiable, but doesn't
involve space aliens, Atlantis or baghdad-battery
powered lightbulbs.
Damn, can't recall his name, but one guy is
suggesting that they built the core first, and
then built the rest of the pyramid around it.
Okay, so it isn't very precise, trying to explain
the exact means the large blocks were moved, but
it's a start...
Supposedly his observations regarding the queen's
pyramids led him to the idea, a means to test his
theory.
Again, can't recall the guys name.... maybe someone
else can?

AN INTERIOR STRAIGHT RAMP makes sense.
No exterior ramp of sand has the support to hold it up
on a sloped pyramid, of course the slope was put on last.
so of course then this sand is laid on a stepped pyramid
and the weight of the sand is down on flat surface then.
But it still makes much sense that a corridor internal straight
ramp is supported on both sides by vertical walls.
As posted earlier by me the pyramid started as a ziggurat from
2170-2078 BC. And its first ascending chamber started in 2078 BC
means it was likely still a ziggurat. Intended slopes would not
be in the plans until 1986 BC. Oh by the way all 4th dynasty
tombs have 12th dynasty belongings. If Columbus and Cortez
could live 450 years, they too would be buried with televisions
and cars in their mausoleums the way the 4th dynasty was when
they all died between 1930 BC (Arpoaxad) and 1839 BC (Eber).
KuFu was contemporary with Eber who lived 464 years, and Ebers
son Peleg died at 239 in 2030 BC when 5th dynasty Unas died.
Thus Unas died in 2030 BC before KuFu's pyramid was finished.
Egypt Papyrus is what changes it to 2321 BC and moves KuFu
back 400 years. And by the way, since KuFu is two letters K-F
and British says it as Che- Ops (Kay- Ef) why are we saying
KuFu instead of Kayef. And why is Giza pronounced as goat when
100 years ago it was spelled as Jeezah.
How can you get facts right when youre more busy arguing the
trivia like how to spell and pronounce. No wonder you cant connect
the god Ray with sun rays of a clear sunny day making distinct
shadows.
Youre too busy arguing Re and Ra.
You stand condemned because worse than New Orleans and WTC is
coming in months ahead. And the survivors will not be your children
but a people who will scorn this bickering of yours as the reason you
all died.
Elijah
here to condemn, awaiting the true church to acknowledge i've been
given the lead over condemning those who'll soon die in this world.
May the church heed God this moment to save their children
or no one will survive and live at all in the months to come.

[Barry Gray]

Post by Eugene Griessel

Post by Roger Bagula
Architect claims to solve pyramid secret
By LAURENCE JOAN-GRANGE, Associated Press WriterSat Mar 31, 4:37 AM ET
A French architect claimed Friday to have uncovered the mystery about
how Egypt's Great Pyramid of Khufu was built — with use of a spiral ramp
to hoist huge stone blocks into place.

[snip]

Post by Eugene Griessel

Post by Roger Bagula
According to his theory — shown in a computer model available at
http://www.3ds.com/khufu — the builders put up an outer ramp for the
first 140 feet, then constructed an inner ramp in a corkscrew shape to
complete the 450-foot structure.

Yet one more unprovable theory - and I'm not too sure it hasn't been
proposed before amongst the dozens of theories about internal and
external ramps. By 43 metres (his 140 feet) the pyramid is 65%
complete - and one is at the bottom of the Kings chamber. I think
most proposals include a direct straight external ramp from the quarry
to the pyramid up to this point. Increasing the ramp height much above
that begins to consume more labour and material than the pyramid
itself and is not efficient. Shortly after this level, round about
course 47, the stones themselves start to get much smaller - slightly
over a ton each and then generally reduce in size. So lifting them
becomes less of a problem. Most major theorists propose an external
spiral ramp from this course upwards - and it makes sense in terms of
efficiency and usage of labour. An internal spiral ramp could also
have been used but it involves much more complications and its
advantages are not all that clear.

The point about external ramps is that because the pyramid is square
the ramps must have corners and this makes moving the stones very
difficult. A team built a very small pyramid for a tv show to
demonstrate how this could be done. Internal ramps can be spiral, and
spiral ramps do not have corners.

Post by Eugene Griessel
Ultimately, unless some depictions of pyramid building are unearthed,
it will all be conjecture and a case of weighing up likely against
less likely methods.

[snip]

But the case for internal ramps, and other matters, is very
persuasively argued in The Pyramid Builder by Christine el Mahdy
(Headline, 2003).

Post by Eugene Griessel
Eugene L Griessel
It is better to be violent, if there is violence in our hearts,
than to put on the cloak of non-violence to cover impotence.
- Mahatma Gandhi

[Eugene Griessel]

Post by Barry Gray
But the case for internal ramps, and other matters, is very
persuasively argued in The Pyramid Builder by Christine el Mahdy
(Headline, 2003).

Yes, she does - however as an engineer I find some of her arguments a
little naive. There is always a large gap in uninformed theory and
the actual practice - but she does explore many aspects. As many
others have done before her - if you notice from the acknowledgements
a large number of the pyramid building illustrations actually come
from Mark Lehner's Complete Pyramids.

However all these theories (perhaps hypotheses would be a better word)
are ultimately untestable. Some we can dismiss as unlikely or
impractical and other we can endorse as likely and practical. But
when it comes down to how they really did it - we will never know for
sure.

Eugene L Griessel

I shall now ask my colleague to tell you how good I am at delegating

[Elijahovah]

Post by Eugene Griessel

Post by Roger Bagula
Architect claims to solve pyramid secret
By LAURENCE JOAN-GRANGE, Associated Press WriterSat Mar 31, 4:37 AM ET
A French architect claimed Friday to have uncovered the mystery about
how Egypt's Great Pyramid of Khufu was built - with use of a spiral ramp
to hoist huge stone blocks into place.
The construction of the Great Pyramid 4,500 years ago by Khufu, a ruler
also known as Cheops, has long befuddled scientists as to how its 3
million stone blocks weighing 2.5 tons each were lifted into place.
Ending eight years of study on the subject, architect Jean-Pierre Houdin
released his findings and a computerized 3-D mockup showing how workers
would have erected the pyramid at Giza outside Cairo.
The most widespread theory had been that an outer ramp had been used by
the Egyptians, who left few traces to help archeologists and other
scientists decode the secret to the construction.
Houdin said he had taken into account the copper and stone tools
available at the time, the granite and limestone blocks, the location of

t>he pyramid and the strength and knowledge of the workers.

Post by Roger Bagula
According to his theory - shown in a computer model available at
http://www.3ds.com/khufu- the builders put up an outer ramp for the
first 140 feet, then constructed an inner ramp in a corkscrew shape to
complete the 450-foot structure.

Yet one more unprovable theory - and I'm not too sure it hasn't been
proposed before amongst the dozens of theories about internal and
external ramps. By 43 metres (his 140 feet) the pyramid is 65%
complete - and one is at the bottom of the Kings chamber. I think
most proposals include a direct straight external ramp from the quarry
to the pyramid up to this point. Increasing the ramp height much above
that begins to consume more labour and material than the pyramid
itself and is not efficient. Shortly after this level, round about
course 47, the stones themselves start to get much smaller - slightly
over a ton each and then generally reduce in size. So lifting them
becomes less of a problem. Most major theorists propose an external
spiral ramp from this course upwards - and it makes sense in terms of
efficiency and usage of labour. An internal spiral ramp could also
have been used but it involves much more complications and its
advantages are not all that clear.
Ultimately, unless some depictions of pyramid building are unearthed,
it will all be conjecture and a case of weighing up likely against
less likely methods.

Post by Roger Bagula
Houdin also postulated that King's Chamber was hoisted into place
through a system of counterweights.

This is also not new - Mark Lehner has explored this option rather
thoroughly as well.
Eugene L Griessel
It is better to be violent, if there is violence in our hearts,
than to put on the cloak of non-violence to cover impotence.
- Mahatma Gandhi- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

The pyramid was a ground shaft in 2170 BC
its construction was to measure 100-year cycles and failed
because precession takes away the ability to see it in the chamber
in 92 years. This 100-year intention as cycle of Seth is based on
25 years of 365 days being 309 lunar months. But the 365-day
calendar did not exist until 140 years later and therefore Seth was
compared to 100 years of 365 days being 1236 lunar months.
36 more months than 100 x 12m. And more so than 100x 360 days.
Plus the 25 leap days of the stars.
In 2078 BC the zigurrat was complete. A flat mastaba. stepped with no
intended sloped granite sides yet. Even if intended the precession of
Thuban
was causing an issue for all the pyramids going up at the same time.
Pyramids were not built one at a time, but were a 300-year project
that
turned out to be useless with precession of stars. Lives were lost
and the aging of humans from who were 100 in 2170 BC were suddenly
looking old at 200 in 2078 BC when these shafts all failed. These
people
died 48 years later in 2030 BC and at 240 they all asked why is NOah
still alive at 940. And why are all our parents still young. At that
time
they knew nothing of carbon-14 cell deteriation, they were busy
building
pyramids that others told them would fail as many died even building
them.
It is an example of those who die now building bridges and towers etc.
Most of what we have was not built by safety OSHEA laws or skilled
trades right to life and lockout programs. What we have today was
built
by those now dead and sacrificed, and none of it is asteroid impact
preventing.
One issue of the towers were collapse from weight. Those collapsed
towers
were disaster before the great pyramid reached that stage and so it
was
corrected by that project before happening. Yet we look at 5th dynasty
pyramids collapsed and we say oh they were built after the grreat
pyramid.
Not so, the 3 chambers of trying to correct preecession took 92 years
a piece and are mistakenly traditionally claimed as the tower of
Babel.
In reality the confusion comes from the great pyramid completed and
failed
in the 1st year of 1894 BC Babylon. Three times 92 years 2170-1894 BC.
2078 BC marking Ur's Haran Osiris moon and Venus, 1986 BC marking
11th dynasty Pharaoh Saturnalia who ruled 43 years, and then 1894 BC.
The Seth cycle is also said to be a 400-year Gregorian recognition
which is
2170-1770 BC. Hamurabi's year 1770 BC is Noah's 1200-year venus, and
Adam's year 2256 mistaken as astronomy of the Flood year 600 years
earlier.
Give it up, you cant argue what you dont analyze to see. Its all
locked up
boys every date is confirmed by calendars existing now and i have the
copyright at showing your own calendars you create errors in. Can't
any
publish a solid factual book ???? You guys are so swollen head in
your
knowledge that you dont even notice major typos your books have when
we get exausted writing. I agree i get exausted too, but i do checks
on
my work, and you guys all publish stuff you havent done checks on.
Its so shamefully disgusting to see you profit on books that have no
mathematical checks on your calendar dates. I can even prove how you
accidently make your typos that alter the years and months of dates
after your error.
No dumby here.
Elijah,
i am here to judge why you will die from your own negligence.
blessed is the church who listens and saves the handful in the world.

[Kevin]

Post by Roger Bagula
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070331/ap_on_sc/france_pyramid_theory

http://news.yahoo.com/photos/ss/events/sc/033007pyramids/p:9;_ylt=AhMOS4qHEQ
YC7h1MpnhUDNLlWMcF?sp=6000

Post by Roger Bagula
Architect claims to solve pyramid secret

(snipped)

The "Spiral Ramp" theory is nearly as funny as the "Long Ramp"
theory......with the long ramp , in order to keep a reasonable slope , you
have a harder job building the ramp than the actual pyramid itself . With
the spiral ramp , the theory appears to be "drawing makes it so" (look at
the area UNDER each level of the ramp , then do a mental picture of what
happens when you get to each corner with your (average) two and a half ton
block)

Sheerluck

[Eugene Griessel]

Post by Roger Bagula

Post by Roger Bagula
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070331/ap_on_sc/france_pyramid_theory

http://news.yahoo.com/photos/ss/events/sc/033007pyramids/p:9;_ylt=AhMOS4qHEQ
YC7h1MpnhUDNLlWMcF?sp=6000

Post by Roger Bagula
Architect claims to solve pyramid secret

(snipped)
The "Spiral Ramp" theory is nearly as funny as the "Long Ramp"
theory......with the long ramp , in order to keep a reasonable slope , you
have a harder job building the ramp than the actual pyramid itself . With
the spiral ramp , the theory appears to be "drawing makes it so" (look at
the area UNDER each level of the ramp , then do a mental picture of what
happens when you get to each corner with your (average) two and a half ton
block)

The average may be two and a half ton - but most of the blocks were
not of that mass. From course - say 50 - upwards, with odd
exceptions, most of the blocks were under two tons. In fact the
average block in the upper 168 courses had a mass of around 726 kg -
roughly one and a half tons and and the average for the last 100
courses was 543 kg - or about 1200 pounds. I must stress that these
are averages because courses of bigger blocks do exist - see the work
of Finders Petrie for details.

Eugene L Griessel

It is better to be violent, if there is violence in our hearts,
than to put on the cloak of non-violence to cover impotence.
- Mahatma Gandhi

[michel.selaudoux]

----- Original Message -----
From: "Roger Bagula" <***@sbcglobal.net>
Newsgroups: alt.history.ancient-egypt
Sent: Saturday, March 31, 2007 5:30 PM
Subject: Architect claims to solve pyramid secret

Post by Roger Bagula
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070331/ap_on_sc/france_pyramid_theory
http://news.yahoo.com/photos/ss/events/sc/033007pyramids/p:9;_ylt=AhMOS4qHEQYC7h1MpnhUDNLlWMcF?sp=6000
Architect claims to solve pyramid secret
By LAURENCE JOAN-GRANGE, Associated Press WriterSat Mar 31, 4:37 AM ET
A French architect claimed Friday to have uncovered the mystery about how
Egypt's Great Pyramid of Khufu was built — with use of a spiral ramp to
hoist huge stone blocks into place.
The construction of the Great Pyramid 4,500 years ago by Khufu, a ruler
also known as Cheops, has long befuddled scientists as to how its 3
million stone blocks weighing 2.5 tons each were lifted into place.
Ending eight years of study on the subject, architect Jean-Pierre Houdin
released his findings and a computerized 3-D mockup showing how workers
would have erected the pyramid at Giza outside Cairo.
The most widespread theory had been that an outer ramp had been used by
the Egyptians, who left few traces to help archeologists and other
scientists decode the secret to the construction.
Houdin said he had taken into account the copper and stone tools available
at the time, the granite and limestone blocks, the location of the pyramid
and the strength and knowledge of the workers.
According to his theory — shown in a computer model available at
http://www.3ds.com/khufu — the builders put up an outer ramp for the first
140 feet, then constructed an inner ramp in a corkscrew shape to complete
the 450-foot structure.
Houdin also postulated that King's Chamber was hoisted into place through
a system of counterweights.
Houdin said he plans to verify his theories through non-invasive tests on
site.
Copyright © 2007 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. The
information contained in the AP News report may not be published,
broadcast, rewritten or redistributed without the prior written authority
of The Associated Press.
Copyright © 2007 Yahoo! Inc. All Rights Reserved. Privacy Policy | Terms
of Service | Send Feedback | Help

And Mr. Eugene L Griessel said...

Post by Roger Bagula
Yet one more unprovable theory - and I'm not too sure it hasn't been
proposed before amongst the dozens of theories about internal and
external ramps.

I add:

The software 3D Dassault systems is undoubtedly remarkable.
The theory of Mr Houdin is very interesting and very satisfactying
for me because it relates the use of internal slopes wich
superimposes perfectly with the texts and drawings of my 2003
deposit (but in fact former) and which are published on
my website relating to Giza.
(Deposit N° 2003050127 and connexes).

Direct link to the involved page:
http://numerus.free.fr/gbm5_2.php
or for the whole site:
http://numerus.free.fr/index.htm

Except the principle of the Carriage-counterweight and the lifting of
the pyramidion which may be are new, there is practically no novation .
There is certainly a great interest for this presentation but it does not
confer any perenity to him.
The discussion could takes place about the great gallery whose covering
seems useless in these circumstances.
Except its base infrastructure for slip and reserves by
tenon and mortises, seems necessary. (but why not…)
Also about the internal arched slopes which are drawn and presented
at the edge of the slopes:
They could not be able to escape at the perspicacity of the Caliph
Al-Mamoun.during his dismantling opening...
Moreover , these slopes didn't need to be arched and could be made up
of simple forms reservations only to avoid of side crumblings due to
compressions of the loads and then embanked at the end of use…(Materials,
time, ,etc...)
In all the cases, that assumption can only advance the knowledge and
confirms the simple means which were used and I am still convinced that for
the concept,
without undervaluing the genius of ancient egypt it is the same.

Michel Sélaudoux

[Roger Bagula]

Post by Roger Bagula
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070331/ap_on_sc/france_pyramid_theory
http://news.yahoo.com/photos/ss/events/sc/033007pyramids/p:9;_ylt=AhMOS4qHEQYC7h1MpnhUDNLlWMcF?sp=6000

This article was just a major national news release that I posted.
I think it was mostly about promoting the software and not the theory...

[Eugene Griessel]

Post by Roger Bagula

Post by Roger Bagula
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070331/ap_on_sc/france_pyramid_theory
http://news.yahoo.com/photos/ss/events/sc/033007pyramids/p:9;_ylt=AhMOS4qHEQYC7h1MpnhUDNLlWMcF?sp=6000

This article was just a major national news release that I posted.
I think it was mostly about promoting the software and not the theory...

You are probably right there - yes, I saw the news reports myself and
thought them rather yawnworthy as yet another attempt to prove that
which is largely unprovable. Educated guessing is the best we can
hope for!

Eugene L Griessel

Communication - the art of transferring thought from one brain
to another successfully.