Discussion:
Painting in profile showing both eyes
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Barry Gray
2007-02-14 13:42:33 UTC
Permalink
Egyptian art usually shows people in profile but showing both arms and
both legs. I recollect that a long time ago I saw a painting in which
the artist took the rule "if there are two of something you must show
them both" quite literally and showed both eyes on one side of the
face. Does anyone know of this picture, or is my recollection wrong?

I have tried various searches using likely combinations of keywords
but without any luck.

TIA
--
Barry Gray
http://www.barrygray.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk
Roger Bagula
2007-02-14 16:27:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by Barry Gray
Egyptian art usually shows people in profile but showing both arms and
both legs. I recollect that a long time ago I saw a painting in which
the artist took the rule "if there are two of something you must show
them both" quite literally and showed both eyes on one side of the
face. Does anyone know of this picture, or is my recollection wrong?
I have tried various searches using likely combinations of keywords
but without any luck.
TIA
Picasso was said to have studied primitive art styles.
Famous bottom fish Picasso style:
http://www.terraingallery.org/Picasso-Dora-Maar-MS.htm
Another one:
Loading Image...
Katherine Griffis
2007-02-19 05:30:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by Barry Gray
Egyptian art usually shows people in profile but showing both arms and
both legs. I recollect that a long time ago I saw a painting in which
the artist took the rule "if there are two of something you must show
them both" quite literally and showed both eyes on one side of the
face. Does anyone know of this picture, or is my recollection wrong?
I have tried various searches using likely combinations of keywords
but without any luck.
There are somes rare occasions where the Egyptians would show faces
frontally in two-dimensional drawings, with both eyes, ears, etc.
visible. However, the images are balanced to show the appropriate
positions and dimensions, rather than all located on one side. As a
previous poster noted, this appears to be a modern art affectation, as
found in some of Picasso's work, though it is thought some o his work
was possibly influenced by the Egyptian art canon.

Certain Egyptian gods, such as the /bA.t/ goddess and Bes, are always
full-faced and not in profile (the only examples of Bes in profile
appears to come from the Greco-Roman period of Egypt). Other deities
and genii (particularly in the afterlife) are often portrayed (and
described as) a "face turned" entity, in such a way to face the
viewer. Christine Favard-Meeks proposed that this style of
representation referred to a specific solar function of certain gods
in

Favard-Meeks, C. 1992. Face et profil dans l'iconographie égyptienne.
Orientalia Lovaniensia Periodica, Leuven 23: 15-36.

As for reasons why the Egyptians rendered the image of the human body
in their rather unique way, there have been explanations, raging from
a proposal of rigid adherence to a primitive style (which is not
likely, as Egyptian art tended to change quite often over the course
of pharaonic history), to use of limited artistic space, to proposals
that the portrayal of only one eye and ear while all other paired body
parts were realistically portrayed (albeit in profile) was guided by a
functionality belief in art - that is, the eye (to see) and ear (to
hear) could be conveyed simply by showing a single example.

For more information on these various proposed rationales for the
Egyptian art style in rendering the human form, you could look at

Assmann, J. 1987. Hierotaxis: Textkonstruktion und Bildkomposition in
der altägyptischen Kunst und Literatur. In J. Osing and G. Dreyer,
Eds., _Form und Mass: Beiträgre zur Literatur, Sprache und Kunst des
Alten Ägypten. (FS Gerhard Fecht)_: 18-42. Wiesbaden: Harrassowitz.

__________. 1996. Preservation and Presentation of Self in Ancient
Egyptian Portraiture. In P. De Manuelian, Ed., _Studies in Honor of
William Kelly Simpson_, Vol. 1: 55-81. Boston: Museum of Fine Arts.

Baines, J. 1994. On the Status and Purposes of Ancient Egyptian Art.
Cambridge Archaeological Journal 4/1: 67-94.

Bolshakov, A. O. 1997. _Man and His Double in Egyptian Ideology of the
Old Kingdom_. Ägypten und Altes Testament 37. M. Görg. Wiesbaden:
Harrassowitz. (On representations of eye and ear from a functional art
viewpoint)

Booth, C. 2005. _The Role of Foreigners in Ancient Egypt: A study of
non-stereotypical artistic representations_. BAR International Series
1426. Oxford: Archaeopress.

Bryan, B. M. 1996. The Disjunction of Text and Image in Egyptian Art.
In P. Der Manuelian, Ed., _Studies in honor of William Kelly Simpson_,
Vol. 1: 161 - 168. Boston: Museum of Fine Arts.

Davis, W. 1989. _The Canonical Tradition in Ancient Egyptian Art_.
Cambridge New Art History and Criticism. N. Bryson. Cambridge:
Cambridge University Press.

Iversen, E. 1955. _Canon and Proportions in Egyptian Art_. London:
Sidgwick and Jackson.

Robins, G. 1994. _Proportion and Style in Ancient Egyptian Art_.
Austin: University of Texas Press.

________. 1994. Some Principles of Compositional Dominance and Gender
Hierarchy in Egyptian Art. JARCE 31: 33-40.

Peck, W. H. and J. G. Ross. 1978. _Egyptian Drawings_. New York: E. P.
Dutton.

Raaven, M. J. 2005. Egyptian Concepts on the Orientation of the Human
Body. JEA 91: 37-53.

Schäfer, H. 1986 (1974). _Principles of Egyptian Art_. E. Brunner-
Traut. J. Baines, transl. Oxford: Griffith Institute.

Spanel, D. 1988. _Through Ancient Eyes: Egyptian Portraiture_.
Birmingham: Birmingham (Alabama) Museum of Art.

Zupnick, I. L. 1963. The "Paratactic" Image in Egyptian Art. Art
Journal 22/2: 96-98.

I hope this assists.

Regards --
---
Katherine Griffis-Greenberg, MA (Lon)
Member, International Association of Egyptologists
American Research Center in Egypt, SSEA, ASOR

Oriental Institute
Oriental Studies Doctoral Program [Egyptology]
University of Oxford
Oxford, United Kingdom

http://www.griffis-consulting.com
Barry Gray
2007-02-19 08:06:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Katherine Griffis
Post by Barry Gray
Egyptian art usually shows people in profile but showing both arms and
both legs. I recollect that a long time ago I saw a painting in which
the artist took the rule "if there are two of something you must show
them both" quite literally and showed both eyes on one side of the
face. Does anyone know of this picture, or is my recollection wrong?
I have tried various searches using likely combinations of keywords
but without any luck.
There are somes rare occasions where the Egyptians would show faces
frontally in two-dimensional drawings, with both eyes, ears, etc.
visible. However, the images are balanced to show the appropriate
positions and dimensions, rather than all located on one side. As a
previous poster noted, this appears to be a modern art affectation, as
found in some of Picasso's work, though it is thought some o his work
was possibly influenced by the Egyptian art canon.
[snip]
Post by Katherine Griffis
I hope this assists.
Regards --
---
Katherine Griffis-Greenberg, MA (Lon)
Member, International Association of Egyptologists
American Research Center in Egypt, SSEA, ASOR
Oriental Institute
Oriental Studies Doctoral Program [Egyptology]
University of Oxford
Oxford, United Kingdom
http://www.griffis-consulting.com
Thanks very much. It has been said that to remember the good old days
you need a good imagination and a poor memory, and I must now accept
that my recollection falls into this category.

Thanks also to everyone else who has replied.
--
Barry Gray
http://www.barrygray.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk
jerry warner
2007-02-21 09:47:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by Barry Gray
Egyptian art usually shows people in profile but showing both arms and
both legs. I recollect that a long time ago I saw a painting in which
the artist took the rule "if there are two of something you must show
them both" quite literally and showed both eyes on one side of the
face. Does anyone know of this picture, or is my recollection wrong?
I have tried various searches using likely combinations of keywords
but without any luck.
TIA
--
Barry Gray
http://www.barrygray.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk
The irony is that many earlier cave painting are very three dimensional as
opposed to later two dimensional representations.
It is not that later generations had suffered a loss of gray matter
or could not draw and paint and sculpt 3-dimensionally but that
'style' dicpated they not - they were pleasing an audience and
following their own strict social traditions. Social constraints within
any given time period are powerful determiners.

It is true Picasso studied earlier socalled primitive traditions.
It is also true that the Egyptians far surpassed most earlier forms
of sculpture, both technically and conceptually.

One of the reasons Egyptian formal painting was so stylised is
because it may have fallen into a larger 'graphic ideological' framework
where painting was part of a larger whole containing
lexical graphics, so both conform to a related genre. Thats just a
guess on my part.

kw
m fowler
2021-07-26 20:26:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by jerry warner
Post by Barry Gray
Egyptian art usually shows people in profile but showing both arms and
both legs. I recollect that a long time ago I saw a painting in which
the artist took the rule "if there are two of something you must show
them both" quite literally and showed both eyes on one side of the
face. Does anyone know of this picture, or is my recollection wrong?
I have tried various searches using likely combinations of keywords
but without any luck.
TIA
--
Barry Gray
http://www.barrygray.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk
The irony is that many earlier cave painting are very three dimensional as
opposed to later two dimensional representations.
It is not that later generations had suffered a loss of gray matter
or could not draw and paint and sculpt 3-dimensionally but that
'style' dicpated they not - they were pleasing an audience and
following their own strict social traditions. Social constraints within
any given time period are powerful determiners.
It is true Picasso studied earlier socalled primitive traditions.
It is also true that the Egyptians far surpassed most earlier forms
of sculpture, both technically and conceptually.
One of the reasons Egyptian formal painting was so stylised is
because it may have fallen into a larger 'graphic ideological' framework
where painting was part of a larger whole containing
lexical graphics, so both conform to a related genre. Thats just a
guess on my part.
kw
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