Lars Wilson
2008-01-21 23:36:51 UTC
As Israel Finkelstein notes, the only way Shishak gets dated is by use of
the Biblical reference to that occurring in the 5th of Rehoboam. So they
use the Bible's timeline piggy-backed off 853 BCE for the Battle of Karkar
based on the Assyrian dating fixed by the 763 BCE eclipse. They then
compare Shishak's invasion based on this dated to 925 BCE to claim that
Solomon and David are dated too early and that Shishak's invasion which RC14
dating points the highest probability to c. 874-867 BCE is also a mismatch
for 925 BCE.
However, the Bible itself does not date Solomon's rule based on the Assyrian
timeline. It has it's own internal dating system. The best reference now
available for strict Biblical dating is to use fixed modern dates that have
to be coordinated with ancient dates as the Bible's own dating reference.
One of the easiest references is the fulfillment of the70th week jubilee,
the last 49 years of the Jewish covenant over a period of 70 jubiless
amounting to 3430 years (70 x 49). The Exodus is the first jubilee in this
period. Thus 1947 can be used to fix the dating of the beginning of the
70th jubilee. That ends the jubilee Period in 1996 and begins it in 1435
BCE. The Exodus is 49 years later as the first jubilee dated to 1386 BCE.
In that case year 39 of Solomon, the date of Shishak's invasion, per the
Bible is dated to 871 BCE and 925 BCE.
So archaeologist Israel Finkelstein's two books focussing on this, "The
Bible Unearthed" and "David and Solomon" are making a big deal about the
mythical Solomon and David and they are not using the official or competent
Biblical timeline or Biblical dating for the rule of Solomon which is
specifically 910-870 BCE based upon the 70th jubilee beginning in 1947.
Loading Image...
(Jewish Covenant Week
Chart)
Which means?
Which means the Bible doesn't date Shishak's invasion in 925 BCE, only
archaeologists who don't follow strict Biblical chronology. Therefore, the
comparison is meaningless as far as the Bible is concerned since it's not
really the correct Biblical dating. At the very least, therefore,
archaeologists should consult with Biblical chronologists about the range of
Biblical chronology dates rather than biasedly presuming the Bible's
timeline is in complete agreement with the secular timeline. Which it
isn't.
There are other theories about the Biblical timeline, of course, but the
later the date of reference the less debate over dates. 1947 is not a date
many will argue with as the date the Jews were restored to the homeland,
even though the formal State of Israel was not established until the
following spring, within the same year, of course.
SOLUTION: For the Biblicalist who understands chronology better than
archaeologists, as David Ussishkin suggested, should be the final consultant
about Biblical history and dating and archaeologists should stay focussed on
their area of expertise, which is archaeological dating. When an
archaeologist, like Israel Finkelstein tries to play both sides of that
fence, and pick and choose the chronology he likes for the best position at
Bible-bashing, then of course, he is going to be igored and considere
incompetent. Not incompetent as an archaeologist, but incompetent as far as
a credible archaeology vs Bible history comparison. The archaeological
dating for Shishak, which RC14 points its highest probability (not absolute,
just highest "relative probability") to c. 871 BCE. And so does the strict
Biblical timeline that we can retrodate from 1947 now. 925 BCE was never a
Biblical date for Shishak, it's an incompetent pseudo-Biblical date used by
biased archaeologists.
Lars Wilson
Finally, we have some "semantics" agreement with respect to the Rehov RC14
chart and what it represents. Even though the chart itself was always
posted and labelled quite clearly as "Relative Probability" apparently there
was some misunderstanding. However, now that there is agreement, this
represents a Biblical archaeology comeback for the Biblical timeline!!!
FINAL AGREEMENT:
1) That "Relative Probability" means relative probability, not "absolute"
dating.
2) That 871 BCE is simply the midpoint date of the 914-823 BCE range for
the 95.4% testing, and falls within the highest "relative probability"
dating range of 874-867 BCE as demonstrated by the chart. Again, this is
just highest relative probability and not absolute-absolute dating.
Now that it is agreed that c. 871 BCE is the highest relative probability
date for Shishak's invasion (not to be confused with absolute date, just the
highest probable date using the 95.4% scale), we can compare that pointer
specifically with other timelines as follows.
TIMELINE COMPARISONS:
1. If you use the 763 BCE eclipse for the Assyrian timeline, then 925 BCE
is the date for Shishak's invasion.
2. If you use the 709 BCE eclipse then 871 BCE is the date for Shishak's
invasion.
3. If you use the KTU 1.78 to date year 12 of Akhenaten to 1375 BCE, then
871 BCE is the date for Shishak's invasion.
4. If you use Kathleen Kenyon's dating range for the fall of Jericho
between 1350-1325 BCE, then 871 BCE falls within that range for Shishak's
invasion.
5. If you use the VAT4956 to date the 37th year of Nebuchadnezzar to 511
BCE (which is academically required) then the 1st of Cyrus falls in 455 BCE,
which in turn dates the Exodus 19 jubilees earlier to 1386 BCE, in which
case Shishak's invasion will fall in 871 BCE.
6. If you use the SK400 astrotext to date year 7 of Nebuchadnezzar to 841
BCE, it will date year 23 to 525 BCE and the 1st of Cyrus to 455 BCE. That
in turn will date the Exodus to 1386 BCE and Shishak's invasion in 871 BCE.
7. If you use 1947 to date the 70th jubilee Period, then the Exodus is
dated to 1386 BCE, and Shishak's invasion is dated to 871 BCE.
8. If you use Martin Anstey's interpretation for the "70 weeks" prophecy,
which establishes the rebuilding of Jerusalem by Cyrus 483 years before the
baptism of Christ, then you can use 29 CE to date the 1st of Cyrus to 455
BCE.... and Shishak's invasion to 871 BCE.
9. If you remove 58 years from Greek history and redate the beginning of
the Peloponnesian War by an improved eclipse match in 402BCE, you can date
the beginning of the War in 403 BCE and the end of the 30-year peace in
394BCE. That dates Xerxes' invasion in 424 BCE and the Battle of Marathon
in 434 BCE, the year Darius dies, the same year the temple is completed
which began 21 years earlier, allowing you to date the 1st of Cyrus in 455
BCE, which in turn dates the Exodus in 1386BCE and Shishak's invasion in 871
BCE.
Loading Image...
Loading Image...
Loading Image...
10. If you date the predictable Thales eclipse during the reign of
Nabonidus in 478 BCE, rather than in 585 BCE which is during the reign of
Nebuchadnezzar (i.e. Herodotus dates that eclipse event during the reign of
Nabonidus), then you can date year 2 of Nabonidus to 479-478 BCE and his
year 1 to 480 BCE. Cyrus overthrew Astyages in the 6th of Nabonidus and
thus in 475 BCE. He ruled 20 years before becoming king at Babylon when he
began counting his rulership years over again. That dates that event to
455 BCE, which dates the Exodus in 1386 BCE and Shishak's invasion in 871
BCE.
http://www.geocities.com/ed_maruyama/thalesx.html
11. If you use the unique timeline by Jehovah's witnesses, Shishak's
invasion is dated to 993 BCE: "When Jeroboam fled to Egypt to escape the
wrath of King Solomon, Shishak ruled there. (1Ki 11:40) Some years later, in
the fifth year of Solomon's successor Rehoboam (993 B.C.E.), Shishak invaded
Judah with a mighty force of chariots and horsemen." (Insight, Vol 2
"Shishak"). That represents a date 122 years earlier than 871 BCE.
SUMMARY: So basically, #1 and #11 are the only timelines that would not
match the 871 BCE dating for Shishak's invasion. #1 (conventional Assyrian
dating) is 54 years too early and #11 (Jehovah's witness timeline) is 122
years too early. All the others agree quite well with 871 BCE for Shishak's
invasion.
Lars Wilson
(New!) Corrected Timeline Outline:
http://www.geocities.com/siaxares/709guide.html
the Biblical reference to that occurring in the 5th of Rehoboam. So they
use the Bible's timeline piggy-backed off 853 BCE for the Battle of Karkar
based on the Assyrian dating fixed by the 763 BCE eclipse. They then
compare Shishak's invasion based on this dated to 925 BCE to claim that
Solomon and David are dated too early and that Shishak's invasion which RC14
dating points the highest probability to c. 874-867 BCE is also a mismatch
for 925 BCE.
However, the Bible itself does not date Solomon's rule based on the Assyrian
timeline. It has it's own internal dating system. The best reference now
available for strict Biblical dating is to use fixed modern dates that have
to be coordinated with ancient dates as the Bible's own dating reference.
One of the easiest references is the fulfillment of the70th week jubilee,
the last 49 years of the Jewish covenant over a period of 70 jubiless
amounting to 3430 years (70 x 49). The Exodus is the first jubilee in this
period. Thus 1947 can be used to fix the dating of the beginning of the
70th jubilee. That ends the jubilee Period in 1996 and begins it in 1435
BCE. The Exodus is 49 years later as the first jubilee dated to 1386 BCE.
In that case year 39 of Solomon, the date of Shishak's invasion, per the
Bible is dated to 871 BCE and 925 BCE.
So archaeologist Israel Finkelstein's two books focussing on this, "The
Bible Unearthed" and "David and Solomon" are making a big deal about the
mythical Solomon and David and they are not using the official or competent
Biblical timeline or Biblical dating for the rule of Solomon which is
specifically 910-870 BCE based upon the 70th jubilee beginning in 1947.
Loading Image...
(Jewish Covenant WeekChart)
Which means?
Which means the Bible doesn't date Shishak's invasion in 925 BCE, only
archaeologists who don't follow strict Biblical chronology. Therefore, the
comparison is meaningless as far as the Bible is concerned since it's not
really the correct Biblical dating. At the very least, therefore,
archaeologists should consult with Biblical chronologists about the range of
Biblical chronology dates rather than biasedly presuming the Bible's
timeline is in complete agreement with the secular timeline. Which it
isn't.
There are other theories about the Biblical timeline, of course, but the
later the date of reference the less debate over dates. 1947 is not a date
many will argue with as the date the Jews were restored to the homeland,
even though the formal State of Israel was not established until the
following spring, within the same year, of course.
SOLUTION: For the Biblicalist who understands chronology better than
archaeologists, as David Ussishkin suggested, should be the final consultant
about Biblical history and dating and archaeologists should stay focussed on
their area of expertise, which is archaeological dating. When an
archaeologist, like Israel Finkelstein tries to play both sides of that
fence, and pick and choose the chronology he likes for the best position at
Bible-bashing, then of course, he is going to be igored and considere
incompetent. Not incompetent as an archaeologist, but incompetent as far as
a credible archaeology vs Bible history comparison. The archaeological
dating for Shishak, which RC14 points its highest probability (not absolute,
just highest "relative probability") to c. 871 BCE. And so does the strict
Biblical timeline that we can retrodate from 1947 now. 925 BCE was never a
Biblical date for Shishak, it's an incompetent pseudo-Biblical date used by
biased archaeologists.
Lars Wilson
Finally, we have some "semantics" agreement with respect to the Rehov RC14
chart and what it represents. Even though the chart itself was always
posted and labelled quite clearly as "Relative Probability" apparently there
was some misunderstanding. However, now that there is agreement, this
represents a Biblical archaeology comeback for the Biblical timeline!!!
FINAL AGREEMENT:
1) That "Relative Probability" means relative probability, not "absolute"
dating.
2) That 871 BCE is simply the midpoint date of the 914-823 BCE range for
the 95.4% testing, and falls within the highest "relative probability"
dating range of 874-867 BCE as demonstrated by the chart. Again, this is
just highest relative probability and not absolute-absolute dating.
Now that it is agreed that c. 871 BCE is the highest relative probability
date for Shishak's invasion (not to be confused with absolute date, just the
highest probable date using the 95.4% scale), we can compare that pointer
specifically with other timelines as follows.
TIMELINE COMPARISONS:
1. If you use the 763 BCE eclipse for the Assyrian timeline, then 925 BCE
is the date for Shishak's invasion.
2. If you use the 709 BCE eclipse then 871 BCE is the date for Shishak's
invasion.
3. If you use the KTU 1.78 to date year 12 of Akhenaten to 1375 BCE, then
871 BCE is the date for Shishak's invasion.
4. If you use Kathleen Kenyon's dating range for the fall of Jericho
between 1350-1325 BCE, then 871 BCE falls within that range for Shishak's
invasion.
5. If you use the VAT4956 to date the 37th year of Nebuchadnezzar to 511
BCE (which is academically required) then the 1st of Cyrus falls in 455 BCE,
which in turn dates the Exodus 19 jubilees earlier to 1386 BCE, in which
case Shishak's invasion will fall in 871 BCE.
6. If you use the SK400 astrotext to date year 7 of Nebuchadnezzar to 841
BCE, it will date year 23 to 525 BCE and the 1st of Cyrus to 455 BCE. That
in turn will date the Exodus to 1386 BCE and Shishak's invasion in 871 BCE.
7. If you use 1947 to date the 70th jubilee Period, then the Exodus is
dated to 1386 BCE, and Shishak's invasion is dated to 871 BCE.
8. If you use Martin Anstey's interpretation for the "70 weeks" prophecy,
which establishes the rebuilding of Jerusalem by Cyrus 483 years before the
baptism of Christ, then you can use 29 CE to date the 1st of Cyrus to 455
BCE.... and Shishak's invasion to 871 BCE.
9. If you remove 58 years from Greek history and redate the beginning of
the Peloponnesian War by an improved eclipse match in 402BCE, you can date
the beginning of the War in 403 BCE and the end of the 30-year peace in
394BCE. That dates Xerxes' invasion in 424 BCE and the Battle of Marathon
in 434 BCE, the year Darius dies, the same year the temple is completed
which began 21 years earlier, allowing you to date the 1st of Cyrus in 455
BCE, which in turn dates the Exodus in 1386BCE and Shishak's invasion in 871
BCE.
Loading Image...
Loading Image...
Loading Image...
10. If you date the predictable Thales eclipse during the reign of
Nabonidus in 478 BCE, rather than in 585 BCE which is during the reign of
Nebuchadnezzar (i.e. Herodotus dates that eclipse event during the reign of
Nabonidus), then you can date year 2 of Nabonidus to 479-478 BCE and his
year 1 to 480 BCE. Cyrus overthrew Astyages in the 6th of Nabonidus and
thus in 475 BCE. He ruled 20 years before becoming king at Babylon when he
began counting his rulership years over again. That dates that event to
455 BCE, which dates the Exodus in 1386 BCE and Shishak's invasion in 871
BCE.
http://www.geocities.com/ed_maruyama/thalesx.html
11. If you use the unique timeline by Jehovah's witnesses, Shishak's
invasion is dated to 993 BCE: "When Jeroboam fled to Egypt to escape the
wrath of King Solomon, Shishak ruled there. (1Ki 11:40) Some years later, in
the fifth year of Solomon's successor Rehoboam (993 B.C.E.), Shishak invaded
Judah with a mighty force of chariots and horsemen." (Insight, Vol 2
"Shishak"). That represents a date 122 years earlier than 871 BCE.
SUMMARY: So basically, #1 and #11 are the only timelines that would not
match the 871 BCE dating for Shishak's invasion. #1 (conventional Assyrian
dating) is 54 years too early and #11 (Jehovah's witness timeline) is 122
years too early. All the others agree quite well with 871 BCE for Shishak's
invasion.
Lars Wilson
(New!) Corrected Timeline Outline:
http://www.geocities.com/siaxares/709guide.html