Discussion:
Turin Papyrus on early mining 3000 years ago , shows site identical in every detail , to south australian mine
(too old to reply)
kangarooistan
2009-04-28 17:50:23 UTC
Permalink
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turin_Papyrus_Map
The Turin Papyrus is reported to be a 2 meters long mining map

I claim the left hand section , is different and unrelated to the
rest , it even looks different ,

I claim I know a site that fits the map on the left in every detail,
and the buildings , roads ,river , hills and valleys and the 4
features near the centre , as marked , are identifiable still as if
It was drawn very recently

it is NOT in Egypt

It is in South Australia

Yes I know you have heard this sort of claim before

, but keep an open mind and examine the FACTS , they claim there is a
site in Egypt I claim the site is in South Australia

One of us is wrong , the sites can be examined , it fits like a glove
on this end , in minute detail

Once both sites are EXAMINED , then laugh at why nobody noticed
before , the far left map is different to the rest , why assume its
the same area as the other sections

Loading Image...
http://www.reshafim.org.il/ad/egypt/timelines/topics/mining.htm
Loading Image...

I found this object at the site recently
http://mail.google.com/mail/h/9c8k6m41k4i6/?view=att&th=120e0fd6c757ddc7&attid=0.1&disp=inline&zw

, and have spent many decades examining the very unusual features at
this site ,every year growing more and more convinced it is indeed a
VERY large , VERY old mine site , predating European settlement by a
VERY long time

I just stumbled , on this old Egyptian map and my jaw dropped

I thought it was a joke

I could have drawn it YESTERDAY

Do you know anybody who has examined the mine in Egypt ???

Its a mirror image of the site in South Australia , hard to imagine
such identical natural and man made features being so similar ,
considering its nature who makes the site

There can be no doubt at all on my end , this IS a map of a mine site
in South Australia

This map called the Turin Papyrus the far left panel , is indeed in
South Australia

Do laugh too loud , Im 100% sure , but I know you need more evidence ,
that WILL take a while but ,

WATCH THIS SPACE

kanga
======
Jack Linthicum
2009-04-28 19:49:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by kangarooistan
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turin_Papyrus_Map
The Turin Papyrus is reported to be a 2 meters long mining map
I claim the left hand section ,  is different and unrelated to the
rest , it even looks different ,
I claim I know a site that fits the map on the left in every detail,
and the buildings , roads ,river , hills and valleys  and the 4
features near the centre  , as  marked , are  identifiable still as if
It was drawn very recently
it is NOT in Egypt
It is in South Australia
Yes I know you have heard this sort of claim before
, but keep an open mind and examine the FACTS , they claim there is a
site in Egypt I claim the site is in South Australia
One of us is wrong , the sites can be examined , it fits like a glove
on this end ,  in minute detail
Once both sites are EXAMINED , then laugh at why nobody noticed
before , the far left map is different to the rest , why assume its
the same area as the other sections
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/ba/TurinPapyrus1.jpghttp://www.reshafim.org.il/ad/egypt/timelines/topics/mining.htmhttp://www.eeescience.utoledo.edu/Faculty/Harrell/Egypt/Turin%20Papyr...
I found this object at the site recentlyhttp://mail.google.com/mail/h/9c8k6m41k4i6/?view=att&th=120e0fd6c757d...
, and have spent many decades examining the very unusual features at
this site ,every year growing more and more convinced it is indeed a
VERY large ,  VERY old mine site , predating European settlement by a
VERY long time
I just stumbled ,  on this old Egyptian map and my jaw dropped
I thought it was a joke
I could have drawn it YESTERDAY
Do you know anybody who has examined the mine in Egypt ???
Its a mirror image of the site in South Australia , hard to imagine
such identical natural and man made features being so similar ,
considering its nature who makes the site
There can be no doubt at all on my end , this IS a map of a mine site
in South Australia
This map called the Turin Papyrus the far left panel ,  is indeed in
South Australia
Do laugh too loud , Im 100% sure , but I know you need more evidence ,
that WILL take a while but ,
 WATCH THIS SPACE
kanga
======
One hell of a long wadi
kangarooistan
2009-04-28 20:19:24 UTC
Permalink
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turin_Papyrus_Map
Post by Jack Linthicum
Post by kangarooistan
The Turin Papyrus is reported to be a 2 meters long mining map
I claim the left hand section ,  is different and unrelated to the
rest , it even looks different ,
I claim I know a site that fits the map on the left in every detail,
and the buildings , roads ,river , hills and valleys  and the 4
features near the centre  , as  marked , are  identifiable still as if
It was drawn very recently
it is NOT in Egypt
It is in South Australia
Yes I know you have heard this sort of claim before
, but keep an open mind and examine the FACTS , they claim there is a
site in Egypt I claim the site is in South Australia
One of us is wrong , the sites can be examined , it fits like a glove
on this end ,  in minute detail
Once both sites are EXAMINED , then laugh at why nobody noticed
before , the far left map is different to the rest , why assume its
the same area as the other sections
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/ba/TurinPapyrus1.jpgh......
I found this object at the site recentlyhttp://mail.google.com/mail/h/9c8k6m41k4i6/?view=att&th=120e0fd6c757d...
, and have spent many decades examining the very unusual features at
this site ,every year growing more and more convinced it is indeed a
VERY large ,  VERY old mine site , predating European settlement by a
VERY long time
I just stumbled ,  on this old Egyptian map and my jaw dropped
I thought it was a joke
I could have drawn it YESTERDAY
Do you know anybody who has examined the mine in Egypt ???
Its a mirror image of the site in South Australia , hard to imagine
such identical natural and man made features being so similar ,
considering its nature who makes the site
There can be no doubt at all on my end , this IS a map of a mine site
in South Australia
This map called the Turin Papyrus the far left panel ,  is indeed in
South Australia
Do laugh too loud , Im 100% sure , but I know you need more evidence ,
that WILL take a while but ,
 WATCH THIS SPACE
kanga
======
.
Post by Jack Linthicum
One hell of a long wadi
Hi jack

The stone quarry is in the Wadi and the road to the sea port passes
all goods from the east into Egypt , but the left side section simply
dont belong there , I bet they can not show its location , yes many
mines but NOT this left hand one

Check out the far left section of the papyrus

It clearly does NOT belong with the other maps to its right

Papyrus are like long books , a map on page one need not be adjacent
to the map on page 2

mines don't normally exist in neat long lines

They even LOOK different

The 3160years old map fits EXACTLY in EVERY detail to the site I have
examined in every detail for South Australia

The map IS of a mine in South Australia and ANYBODY could use it to
locate ANY feature on the map within a few meters

There could NOT be 2 EXACT same mines on earth

It is now only a matter of time till it is confirmed

The map exists and so does the mine

It now matters not what you I or anybody else thinks

The FACTS speak for themselves

I KNOW this map is of a mine in South Australia

Using this map , ANYBODY should easily be able to go and locate EVERY
feature or its remains , , shown on the map within a few meters ,
without me even showing them

It is that accurate

kanga
======
Jack Linthicum
2009-04-28 20:24:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by kangarooistan
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turin_Papyrus_Map
The Turin Papyrus is reported to be a 2 meters long mining map
I claim the left hand section ,  is different and unrelated to the
rest , it even looks different ,
I claim I know a site that fits the map on the left in every detail,
and the buildings , roads ,river , hills and valleys  and the 4
features near the centre  , as  marked , are  identifiable still as if
It was drawn very recently
it is NOT in Egypt
It is in South Australia
Yes I know you have heard this sort of claim before
, but keep an open mind and examine the FACTS , they claim there is a
site in Egypt I claim the site is in South Australia
One of us is wrong , the sites can be examined , it fits like a glove
on this end ,  in minute detail
Once both sites are EXAMINED , then laugh at why nobody noticed
before , the far left map is different to the rest , why assume its
the same area as the other sections
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/ba/TurinPapyrus1.jpghttp://www.reshafim.org.il/ad/egypt/timelines/topics/mining.htmhttp://www.eeescience.utoledo.edu/Faculty/Harrell/Egypt/Turin%20Papyr...
I found this object at the site recentlyhttp://mail.google.com/mail/h/9c8k6m41k4i6/?view=att&th=120e0fd6c757d...
, and have spent many decades examining the very unusual features at
this site ,every year growing more and more convinced it is indeed a
VERY large ,  VERY old mine site , predating European settlement by a
VERY long time
I just stumbled ,  on this old Egyptian map and my jaw dropped
I thought it was a joke
I could have drawn it YESTERDAY
Do you know anybody who has examined the mine in Egypt ???
Its a mirror image of the site in South Australia , hard to imagine
such identical natural and man made features being so similar ,
considering its nature who makes the site
There can be no doubt at all on my end , this IS a map of a mine site
in South Australia
This map called the Turin Papyrus the far left panel ,  is indeed in
South Australia
Do laugh too loud , Im 100% sure , but I know you need more evidence ,
that WILL take a while but ,
 WATCH THIS SPACE
kanga
======
You think 3600 years might have changed some of that area? Even if the
map is totally accurate? If so, I have a map of Vinland I can let go
for a really low price.
kangarooistan
2009-04-28 20:37:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jack Linthicum
Post by kangarooistan
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turin_Papyrus_Map
The Turin Papyrus is reported to be a 2 meters long mining map
I claim the left hand section ,  is different and unrelated to the
rest , it even looks different ,
I claim I know a site that fits the map on the left in every detail,
and the buildings , roads ,river , hills and valleys  and the 4
features near the centre  , as  marked , are  identifiable still as if
It was drawn very recently
it is NOT in Egypt
It is in South Australia
Yes I know you have heard this sort of claim before
, but keep an open mind and examine the FACTS , they claim there is a
site in Egypt I claim the site is in South Australia
One of us is wrong , the sites can be examined , it fits like a glove
on this end ,  in minute detail
Once both sites are EXAMINED , then laugh at why nobody noticed
before , the far left map is different to the rest , why assume its
the same area as the other sections
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/ba/TurinPapyrus1.jpgh......
I found this object at the site recentlyhttp://mail.google.com/mail/h/9c8k6m41k4i6/?view=att&th=120e0fd6c757d...
, and have spent many decades examining the very unusual features at
this site ,every year growing more and more convinced it is indeed a
VERY large ,  VERY old mine site , predating European settlement by a
VERY long time
I just stumbled ,  on this old Egyptian map and my jaw dropped
I thought it was a joke
I could have drawn it YESTERDAY
Do you know anybody who has examined the mine in Egypt ???
Its a mirror image of the site in South Australia , hard to imagine
such identical natural and man made features being so similar ,
considering its nature who makes the site
There can be no doubt at all on my end , this IS a map of a mine site
in South Australia
This map called the Turin Papyrus the far left panel ,  is indeed in
South Australia
Do laugh too loud , Im 100% sure , but I know you need more evidence ,
that WILL take a while but ,
 WATCH THIS SPACE
kanga
======
You think 3600 years might have changed some of that area? Even if the
map is totally accurate? If so, I have a map of Vinland I can let go
for a really low price.
many ancient sites are exactly where they were 3160 years ago

and if you had a 3160 year old map you should easily be able to locate
everything exactly where is was

thats exactly what i am saying mate

everything on the map exactly fits almost to the meter

everything can still be identified

exactly where marked

yes much degraded by still identifiable by even amateurs

kanga
=====
Eric Stevens
2009-04-28 22:50:38 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 28 Apr 2009 13:24:23 -0700 (PDT), Jack Linthicum
Post by Jack Linthicum
Post by kangarooistan
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turin_Papyrus_Map
The Turin Papyrus is reported to be a 2 meters long mining map
I claim the left hand section ,  is different and unrelated to the
rest , it even looks different ,
I claim I know a site that fits the map on the left in every detail,
and the buildings , roads ,river , hills and valleys  and the 4
features near the centre  , as  marked , are  identifiable still as if
It was drawn very recently
it is NOT in Egypt
It is in South Australia
Yes I know you have heard this sort of claim before
, but keep an open mind and examine the FACTS , they claim there is a
site in Egypt I claim the site is in South Australia
One of us is wrong , the sites can be examined , it fits like a glove
on this end ,  in minute detail
Once both sites are EXAMINED , then laugh at why nobody noticed
before , the far left map is different to the rest , why assume its
the same area as the other sections
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/ba/TurinPapyrus1.jpghttp://www.reshafim.org.il/ad/egypt/timelines/topics/mining.htmhttp://www.eeescience.utoledo.edu/Faculty/Harrell/Egypt/Turin%20Papyr...
I found this object at the site recentlyhttp://mail.google.com/mail/h/9c8k6m41k4i6/?view=att&th=120e0fd6c757d...
, and have spent many decades examining the very unusual features at
this site ,every year growing more and more convinced it is indeed a
VERY large ,  VERY old mine site , predating European settlement by a
VERY long time
I just stumbled ,  on this old Egyptian map and my jaw dropped
I thought it was a joke
I could have drawn it YESTERDAY
Do you know anybody who has examined the mine in Egypt ???
Its a mirror image of the site in South Australia , hard to imagine
such identical natural and man made features being so similar ,
considering its nature who makes the site
There can be no doubt at all on my end , this IS a map of a mine site
in South Australia
This map called the Turin Papyrus the far left panel ,  is indeed in
South Australia
Do laugh too loud , Im 100% sure , but I know you need more evidence ,
that WILL take a while but ,
 WATCH THIS SPACE
kanga
======
You think 3600 years might have changed some of that area? Even if the
map is totally accurate? If so, I have a map of Vinland I can let go
for a really low price.
Depending where it is in South Australia, 3,600 years is but a
twinkling of an eye. The country is harsh and arid. Whatever can blow
away has blown away many thousands of years ago. Depending whereabouts
this mine may be, rainfall is but a light sprinkle ranging up to a
downpour of 18mm/month.



Eric Stevens
kangarooistan
2009-04-29 02:03:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by Eric Stevens
On Tue, 28 Apr 2009 13:24:23 -0700 (PDT), Jack Linthicum
Post by Jack Linthicum
Post by kangarooistan
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turin_Papyrus_Map
The Turin Papyrus is reported to be a 2 meters long mining map
I claim the left hand section ,  is different and unrelated to the
rest , it even looks different ,
I claim I know a site that fits the map on the left in every detail,
and the buildings , roads ,river , hills and valleys  and the 4
features near the centre  , as  marked , are  identifiable still as if
It was drawn very recently
it is NOT in Egypt
It is in South Australia
Yes I know you have heard this sort of claim before
, but keep an open mind and examine the FACTS , they claim there is a
site in Egypt I claim the site is in South Australia
One of us is wrong , the sites can be examined , it fits like a glove
on this end ,  in minute detail
Once both sites are EXAMINED , then laugh at why nobody noticed
before , the far left map is different to the rest , why assume its
the same area as the other sections
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/ba/TurinPapyrus1.jpgh......
I found this object at the site recentlyhttp://mail.google.com/mail/h/9c8k6m41k4i6/?view=att&th=120e0fd6c757d...
, and have spent many decades examining the very unusual features at
this site ,every year growing more and more convinced it is indeed a
VERY large ,  VERY old mine site , predating European settlement by a
VERY long time
I just stumbled ,  on this old Egyptian map and my jaw dropped
I thought it was a joke
I could have drawn it YESTERDAY
Do you know anybody who has examined the mine in Egypt ???
Its a mirror image of the site in South Australia , hard to imagine
such identical natural and man made features being so similar ,
considering its nature who makes the site
There can be no doubt at all on my end , this IS a map of a mine site
in South Australia
This map called the Turin Papyrus the far left panel ,  is indeed in
South Australia
Do laugh too loud , Im 100% sure , but I know you need more evidence ,
that WILL take a while but ,
 WATCH THIS SPACE
kanga
======
You think 3600 years might have changed some of that area? Even if the
map is totally accurate? If so, I have a map of Vinland I can let go
for a really low price.
Depending where it is in South Australia, 3,600 years is but a
twinkling of an eye. The country is harsh and arid. Whatever can blow
away has blown away many thousands of years ago. Depending whereabouts
this mine may be, rainfall is but a light sprinkle ranging up to a
downpour of 18mm/month.
Hi Eric Stevens

Heaps of ancient sites are found that are 3160 years old

With a map like this and at least 20 points identified that must have
left some evidence

If a site is examined here in South Australia and there is NO SIMILAR
site found in Egypt

I have walked every sq inch of the south australian site 10 times over
a 50 year period and test dug most unusual areas

THIS IS A MAP OF THAT SITE

there is no doubt what so ever

It would be impossible to see ALL roads ALL buildings river and
ALL natural features all in place and in proportion and distance

There can NOT be 2 sites so similar

I DEMAND to see the so called Egyptian site

I believe IT DOES NOT EXIST in Egypt

And if it does exist in South Australia

Test the wood in the boomerangs and gold of that era in Egyptian
tombs

The map and the site care bnot what we think

They exist and can be measured

They match or they dont

Sooner or later ta through examination by independant experts will
confirm my POV

At this stage I am the only person to have seen both the map and the
site

My POV at least is informed , I have seen the MAP and the SITE , and
I am 100% convinced they area perfect match , EXACTLY

The match is as if I drew the map myself

, granted its 3160 years ago and its not immediately obvious , but its
ALL THERE , a few hours max would convince any real skilled
archaeologist , a few minutes at each feature , and the sheer number
of matches , is over whelming evidence simply by the number of
features ALL where they are marked

Simply take the map and point to any man made feature , the feature
may be any road building or creek , and I will take you to it , then
you work out where to find the next man made feature , the next ,
then the next

several roads are marked on the map , several buildings a river /
creek , a small village type cluster a large central building 4
smaller structures near by , , a large area with no structures ,
site shows signs of gold mining from the era

Find me a site in Egypt that matches , they claim there is one but I
bet they can not match he exact site , the area they claim is a
region mostly stone quarries

Mines dont appear in nice straight lines so papyrus artists can sketch
them they are many miles apart

Papyrus maps of mines are in sections like maps in a miners book ,
map one may be in another country to map two if you shuffle the
fragments and papyrus around over years with no body checking

I know you wont be able to as this is a map from south Australia that
must have been owned by an Egyptian or copied by an Egyptian from
somebody , perhaps looted in a war ,

But the facts on the ground match the features on the map

EXACTLY

I care not if it takes another 50 years to convince the EXPERTS

I know what the map and the site say

kanga
======
J.LyonLayden
2009-04-29 02:27:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by kangarooistan
Post by Eric Stevens
On Tue, 28 Apr 2009 13:24:23 -0700 (PDT), Jack Linthicum
Post by Jack Linthicum
Post by kangarooistan
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turin_Papyrus_Map
The Turin Papyrus is reported to be a 2 meters long mining map
I claim the left hand section ,  is different and unrelated to the
rest , it even looks different ,
I claim I know a site that fits the map on the left in every detail,
and the buildings , roads ,river , hills and valleys  and the 4
features near the centre  , as  marked , are  identifiable still as if
It was drawn very recently
it is NOT in Egypt
It is in South Australia
Yes I know you have heard this sort of claim before
, but keep an open mind and examine the FACTS , they claim there is a
site in Egypt I claim the site is in South Australia
One of us is wrong , the sites can be examined , it fits like a glove
on this end ,  in minute detail
Once both sites are EXAMINED , then laugh at why nobody noticed
before , the far left map is different to the rest , why assume its
the same area as the other sections
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/ba/TurinPapyrus1.jpgh......
I found this object at the site recentlyhttp://mail.google.com/mail/h/9c8k6m41k4i6/?view=att&th=120e0fd6c757d...
, and have spent many decades examining the very unusual features at
this site ,every year growing more and more convinced it is indeed a
VERY large ,  VERY old mine site , predating European settlement by a
VERY long time
I just stumbled ,  on this old Egyptian map and my jaw dropped
I thought it was a joke
I could have drawn it YESTERDAY
Do you know anybody who has examined the mine in Egypt ???
Its a mirror image of the site in South Australia , hard to imagine
such identical natural and man made features being so similar ,
considering its nature who makes the site
There can be no doubt at all on my end , this IS a map of a mine site
in South Australia
This map called the Turin Papyrus the far left panel ,  is indeed in
South Australia
Do laugh too loud , Im 100% sure , but I know you need more evidence ,
that WILL take a while but ,
 WATCH THIS SPACE
kanga
======
You think 3600 years might have changed some of that area? Even if the
map is totally accurate? If so, I have a map of Vinland I can let go
for a really low price.
Depending where it is in South Australia, 3,600 years is but a
twinkling of an eye. The country is harsh and arid. Whatever can blow
away has blown away many thousands of years ago. Depending whereabouts
this mine may be, rainfall is but a light sprinkle ranging up to a
downpour of 18mm/month.
Hi Eric Stevens
Heaps of ancient sites are found that are 3160 years old
With a map like this and at least 20 points identified that must have
left some evidence
If a site is examined here in South Australia and there is NO SIMILAR
site found in Egypt
I have walked every sq inch of the south australian site 10 times over
a 50 year period and test  dug most unusual areas
THIS IS A MAP OF THAT SITE
there is no doubt what so ever
It would be impossible to see  ALL roads ALL buildings river  and
ALL  natural features all in place and in proportion and distance
There can NOT be 2 sites so similar
I DEMAND to see the so called Egyptian site
I believe IT DOES NOT EXIST in Egypt
And if it does exist in South Australia
Test the wood in the boomerangs and gold of that era in Egyptian
tombs
The map and the site care bnot what we think
They exist and can be measured
They match or they dont
Sooner or later ta through examination by  independant experts will
confirm my POV
At this stage I am the only person to have seen both the map and the
site
My POV at least is informed  , I have seen the MAP and the SITE , and
I am 100% convinced they area perfect match , EXACTLY
The match is as if I drew the map myself
, granted its 3160 years ago and its not immediately obvious , but its
ALL THERE , a few hours max would convince any real skilled
archaeologist  , a few minutes at each feature ,  and the sheer number
of matches , is over whelming evidence simply by the number of
features ALL where they are marked
Simply take the map and point to any man made feature , the feature
may be any road building or creek ,  and I will take you to it , then
you work out where to find the next man made  feature ,  the next ,
then the next
several roads are marked on the map , several buildings  a river /
creek , a small village type cluster  a large central building   4
smaller structures near by ,  , a large area with no structures  ,
site shows  signs of gold mining from the era
Find me a site in Egypt that matches , they claim there is one but I
bet they can not match he exact site , the area they claim is a
region  mostly stone quarries
Mines dont appear in nice straight lines so papyrus artists can sketch
them they are many miles apart
Papyrus  maps of mines are in sections like maps in a miners book ,
map one may be in another country to map two if you shuffle the
fragments and papyrus around over years with no body checking
I know you wont be able to as this is a map from south Australia that
must have been owned by an Egyptian or copied by an Egyptian from
somebody , perhaps looted in a war ,
But the facts on the ground match the features on the map
EXACTLY
I care not if it takes another 50 years to convince the EXPERTS
I know what the map and the site say
kanga
======- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Which one 9the mine or the papyrus) was 30,000 years old, as per the
headline to his thread?
Sunny
2009-04-29 04:33:41 UTC
Permalink
On Apr 28, 10:03 pm, kangarooistan <***@gmail.com> wrote:
<snip>

Be advised, "kangarooistan" is an idiot and great friend of Turcaud.
Take anything he posts with a very large grain of salt.
kangarooistan
2009-04-29 06:10:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sunny
<snip>
.
Post by Sunny
Be advised, "kangarooistan" is an idiot and great friend of Turcaud.
Take anything he posts with a very large grain of salt.
At LAST something we agree on sunny

Certainly dont believe ANY THIING you read online

TEST it

There is a map called the Turin Papyrus and its simply a matter of
finding a mine that fits

NO SUCH MINE EXISTS IN EGYPT

AN EXACT FIT EXISTS IN SOUTH AUSTRALIA

Its an EXACT fit in every marked feature , as seen in the papyrus

once its examined and confirmed , you may call it

" Fabians Ancient Mine no 1 "

the scholars all agree the papyrus map is 3160 years old and the
mine was well established them , and some claim the right hand section
speaks about stuff 5000 years old but I claim the two sections should
be viewed as separate documents as the sure look and read and subject
matter as well as time and style , the ONLY thing in common is they
are both about mines

with due respect I have no interest in what you think mate

, its a simple map , matched to a mine site , its simply a matter of
do they match or not , what is happening in the sections to the
right of the " gold map " matters little , they dont deal with gold
mining but stone cutting and IMHO have no connection to the section on
the gold mine

The gold map ' at the start on the Turin Papyrus , is so very
different to the rest , it is clearly no part of the rest IMHO

Either way I am only interested in the first, left hand map

Referred to as the" gold mine " in the text

Scholars debate it exact location as it is upside down if you try and
interpret the direction to the sea , as mentioned twice , as
Egyptians draw maps with south at the TOP this map can NOT be about a
mine in Egypt

The sea is to the LEFT of the mine, as mentioned TWICE on the Papyrus

There are several ROADS shown and a river and several buildings and
the extraction area and the quartz zones and the water point and the
workers quarters and the TEMPLE , [ often up high ] ,

EVERY LAST FEATURE MENTIONED PERFECTLY MATCHES THE MINE IN SOUTH
AUSTRALIA EXACTLY

No mine in Egypt come close , even if you read it upside down which
the scholar who prepared all this detail would NEVER get wrong which
way was up [ south ]

I repeat , show me where inEgypt matches

Cos I can show you where it perfectly in EVERY detail matches my site
in SOUTH AUSTRALIA

It matters not what we think mate

This is simply a matter of checking the FACTS

Who cares what we think

The FACTS can be checked and soon will be

kanga
=====


Slide #102
TITLE: Turin Papyrus
DATE: 1,300 B.C.
AUTHOR: unknown
DESCRIPTION: In so far as cartography is concerned, perhaps the
greatest extant Egyptian achievement is represented by the Turin
Papyrus, collected by Bernardino Drovetti before 1824 and now
preserved in the Egizio Museum of Turin, Italy.

The papyrus scroll artifact probably dates from 3,100 B.C. with the
map apparently prepared around the reign of Ramses IV (1,150 B.C.),
who initiated a systematic land survey of his entire empire.

The extant papyrus consists of two principal sections, earlier thought
to belong to two different documents.

The more important section is a fragment, measuring approximately
forty centimeters high, generally called the "map of the gold mines".

It depicts two broad roads, running parallel to each other through
pinkish-red mountainous regions. They are drawn horizontally across
the papyrus, the lower with indications of a rocky bed or sparse
vegetation, characteristic of the larger dried-up watercourses or
wadis that form the natural routes across the eastern desert from the
Nile to the Red Sea.

Legends written in hieratic, the cursive hierogliphic everyday hand of
the time, explain where these routes to the left are leading. A broad,
winding crossway wadi connects the two routes, from which an
alternative route is indicated and labeled, also leading to the left.

Running vertically from the upper route is yet another road with
hieratic text that gives its destination. The significance of the area
painted red is explained by another legend that reads, "the mountains
where gold is washed: they are colored in red."

The term "mountains of gold" is repeated elsewhere in the area
colored red, as well as apparently the phase "mountains of silver and
gold." In places the red area is brought to a point and given a
distinctive name such as "the peak" or "the peak on which Amun is."


There are other distinctive features outlined, colored, and labeled in
hieratic.

Near the junction of the cross valley with the upper route a
circular, dark-colored image is marked, with a second partially
overlapping design in a darker black line. The figure is probably
intended to represent a well, though no text identifies it.

A little below and to the right of the design is another, more oblong
in shape, colored green with the zigzag lines by which the ancient
Egyptians conventionally represented water.

Within the design there are traces of a hieratic group, apparently to
be read as "cistern", "water-place," or the like.

In the same central section of the map a round-topped stela is also
indicated in white, with a legend dating it to the reign of Sethos l
of the Nineteenth Dynasty.

There are also two man-made features on the upper side of the upper
route.

One is clearly a large building containing several courts or rooms
with connecting doors, described as the "shrine", "resting place" or
"abode" of "Amun of the Pure Mountain."

There are also three small rectangular forms labeled "the houses of
the gold working settlement."
============================================================
The second section of the papyrus comprises a number of fragments for
which the final placement, based on careful study of the fibers of the
papyrus, has yet to be made.

I HAVE NIL INTEREST IN ANYTHING IN THE REST OF THIS SCROLL

Its principal feature is the continuation of the wide, winding route
of the wadi interspersed with stones. This constitutes the lower route
of the other section. In contrast with the gold-mine section, the area
on each side of the road is colored black, and the legend indicates
that in this area the stone known to the ancient Egyptians is bekhen
is to be found. This black or dark green stone, generally called
schist by Egyptian archaeologists, is more properly identified as
graywacke.
===============================================================
The surviving fragments give no indication of precise locations
comparable to those found on the section depicting the gold mining
region and its settlements.

The Turin Papyrus fragments were long considered the earliest
surviving topographical map from Egypt to have come to light.

The papyrus clearly has a character distinct from the cosmological
drawings of the universe or of the routes to or depiction of the after-
life found within the formal context of religious art.
The draftsman has distributed distinctive features in accordance with
the reality of a particular area, adding clarity by the use of legends
and contrasting colors.

SOME CLAIM The texts indicate that the area depicted must be along
the natural route from Coptos (Qift) on the Nile through the eastern
desert via Wadi al-Hammamat to the port of Quseir on the Red Sea.

THE MAP SHOW THE WAY TO THE SEA , NO MENTION OF WHAT SEA



This route was used in ancient times in the course of expeditions to
the Red Sea for trading voyages south to the land known to the
Egyptians as Punt [Somaliland].

The central area, between Bir Al-Hammamat and Bir Umm Fawakhir, was
visited as a source of ornamental stone and of gold, and it is rich in
rock tables recording quarrying expeditions and in archaeological
evidence of ancient gold mining. More precise location rests on the
interpretation of the orientation of the map.

This requires the resolution of questions concerning the placement of
fragments in the second section and the identification of the places
to which the roads to the left of the viewer are said to lead.

In descriptions of property in the later period of the points of the
compass are given in the order south, north, east, west, suggesting
that Egyptians oriented themselves facing south, with north behind
them, the west to their right and the east to their left.

It would be natural, then, for them to designate the top of papyrus
as South.

Such a view seems to be supported by the legend designating the upper
route of the gold map leading off to the left as "the road that leads
to the ym," that is, to the sea," taking ym in its most common
meaning. The route marked as leading off from the cross valley to the
left is likewise described as "another road that leads to the ym."

The placement of the second section to the right of the map of the
gold region seems correct, since it would then constitute the
beginning of a papyrus roll, which would normally suffer greater
damage.

The map would then show on the right (that is, the west) the darker
"schist" areas of the main part of Wadi al-Hammamat, with the gold
mines of the region of Bir Umm Fawakhir some twenty-five kilometers to
the east.

A more recent comparison of the features shown on the map with the
ground matches the various features specifically mentioned in the gold
map with the central area of Wadi al-Hammamat and with the upper part
of the papyrus constituting the North.

If this placement were correct and the fragments of the second
portion were to be placed to the right, it would require the ym to
which the road now leads westward, that is, back to the Nile, to be
taken in some sense other than Red Sea.

It would likewise place the area of bekhen stone to the east of the
location of the main quarry inscriptions in Wadi al-Hammamat.

The difficulties in matching features depicted and labeled on the
papyrus with those on the ground are compounded by the absence of any
indications of scale.

The map seems to be a freehand drawing. The only indication of its
purpose seems to be given in the series of hieratic notations written
on those areas left blank above and below the route and the black
areas depicted on the fragments of the second section.

In contrast with the hieratic texts on the gold map identifying
geographical features, these texts refer to the transport of a statute
on the rt of the papyrus.

A text of five lines, of which the first four lack their beginnings,
seems to reflect a situation in which a king sent an expedition to the
Wadi al-Hammamat to bring a statue back to Thebes. It was, we are
informed, deposited in a workshop beside the mortuary temple of
Ramesses II (Ramesseum) on the west bank of the Nile of Thebes and
subsequently taken, half-worked, to the Valley of the Kings in a
regnal year 6. Such a docket must have been written at Thebes, the
papyrus obviously having been at some time in the possession of one of
the scribes attached to the work gang responsible for constructing and
decorating the royal tombs in the Valley of the Kings. Jottings on the
back of the papyrus include a reference to the statute of Ramesses IV
of the Twentieth Dynasty, suggesting that year 6 should refer to the
reign of that king. The purpose of the map is still obscure.
Annotations on the second portion of the papyrus suggest that the
document was drawn up in connection with work on the extraction and
transport of stone, ultimately destined perhaps for a royal tomb in
the Valley of the Kings. Some of these notes seem to give measurements
of blocks; one seems to provide measurements of actual distances
separating points on the map. The papyrus may be the result of
calculations of distances for logistical purposes. To judge from
instructions contained in a model letter copied by a pupil as part of
his scribal training (instructions that seem to refer to the same
general area as the Turin Map ), calculations of distance are the kind
of work a scribe might be expected to do.

What is unusual is that a rough sketch map is included. Surveying
rarely resulted in graphic maps, and in this respect ancient Egypt is
very similar to medieval Europe until well into the 14th and 15th
centuries.

In summary then, the orientation of this particular map places South
at the top.

The geographical content depicts three roads leading from
unidentified Egyptian gold mines to the sea.

A prominent feature of the plan is what seems to be a winding wadi, or
ravine, about the same width as the roads, in the mountains of Egypt's
eastern desert between Qift on the Nile, down from Thebes, and Quseir
on the Red Sea. The map was drawn in connection with a statue of a
pharaoh which had never been completed. It is believed that this map
also displays the gold-bearing basin to the east of Coptos (shown in
pink on the original map) in the mountainous region of Nubia [part of
modem Sudan] located at Bir Umm Fawakhir in the Wadi Hammamat. The
scroll notes the locations of the mine and quarry, the gold and silver
content of surrounding mountains and the destination of the roadways.
The mapmaker has tried to show how the two main east-west roads lie in
valleys that are linked by a road that curves through a mountain pass.
One of the roads runs from Pelusium to Heroopolis.

On either side of the main roads the map outlines sawtooth mountain
ranges in an early attempt at rendering topographical detail.

The nature of the country, the houses, buildings and entrances to
galleries are also illustrated. The map is thought by some scholars to
commemorate the triumphal return of Seti I from Syria (1366-1333
B.C.).

Two geologists from the University of Toledo in Ohio examined the map
and recognized topographical features from the map, a roadway still in
use and the mountains on both sides, shown as cones. The colors pink,
brown, black and white were used to illustrate mountains and other
features; however, the geologists James Harrell and Max Brown believe
that these colors were not used for aesthetics, but that they
"correspond with the actual appearance of the rocks making up the
mountains". One region's sedimentary rocks, which range from purplish
to dark gray and dark green, are mapped in black. Pink granitic rocks
correspond with the scroll's pink and brown-streaked mountain.
According to these geologists, this is probably one of the oldest
surviving geological maps and the earliest evidence of geological
thought. According to the geologist Harrell, "In order for it to be a
geological map, it must show distribution of different rock types.
Secondarily, it should indicate the location of geological features
like mountains and valleys. In both regards the scroll qualifies and
reminds us of modern geological mapping." The English surveyor William
Smith is credited with initiating modern geologic mapmaking in 1815.

LOCATION: Egizio Museum, Turin, Italy
http://www.henry-davis.com/MAPS/AncientWebPages/102mono.html
Peter Alaca
2009-04-29 07:40:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by kangarooistan
Certainly dont believe ANY THIING you read online
That is why we don't believe you
Post by kangarooistan
[...]
kangarooistan
2009-04-29 08:21:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter Alaca
Post by kangarooistan
Certainly dont believe ANY THIING you read online
That is why we don't believe you
HI peter

I dont recall asking you to believe anything mate
i merely stating the facts

There is a map in Turin dated 3160 years ago of a Egyptian gold map

there is NO such mine to be found ANYWHERE except in South Australia
Test it

Then you will believe as I do once you have examined the MAP and the
sites you will as I have to as I have ACCEPT the FACTS

There is a 3160 year old Egyptian gold mine in South Australia

hose who dont care dont matter

There will be those who MAY choose to know of this breaking news

You are most welcome to let others do the work and follow with the
flock mate

The world is FULL of leaders and followers mate
Im patient

I KNOW it takes the flock 10 to twenty years to catchup with those at
the cutting edge mate

Same in all fields of research

I fully expect to be ridiculed by at least 99%of those who first read
or hear my claims

I am very happy to forgive your skepticism mate

Such wild claims mean NOTHING unless they stand up to the acid test ,
and they can , and will in time re write history

Trust me ,but dont believe me until its been fully verified , IF you
or anybody know of a site in EGYPT that perfectly matches the detailed
map

OR are interested in examining the SOUTH AUSTRALIAN site

Please let me know

kanga
======

the scholars all agree the papyrus map is 3160 years old and the
mine was well established them , and some claim the right hand section
speaks about stuff 5000 years old but I claim the two sections should
be viewed as separate documents as the sure look and read and subject
matter as well as time and style , the ONLY thing in common is they
are both about mines

with due respect I have no interest in what you think mate

, its a simple map , matched to a mine site , its simply a matter of
do they match or not , what is happening in the sections to the
right of the " gold map " matters little , they dont deal with gold
mining but stone cutting and IMHO have no connection to the section on
the gold mine

The gold map ' at the start on the Turin Papyrus , is so very
different to the rest , it is clearly no part of the rest IMHO

Either way I am only interested in the first, left hand map

Referred to as the" gold mine " in the text

Scholars debate it exact location as it is upside down if you try and
interpret the direction to the sea , as mentioned twice , as
Egyptians draw maps with south at the TOP this map can NOT be about a
mine in Egypt

The sea is to the LEFT of the mine, as mentioned TWICE on the Papyrus

There are several ROADS shown and a river and several buildings and
the extraction area and the quartz zones and the water point and the
workers quarters and the TEMPLE , [ often up high ] ,

EVERY LAST FEATURE MENTIONED PERFECTLY MATCHES THE MINE IN SOUTH
AUSTRALIA EXACTLY

No mine in Egypt come close , even if you read it upside down which
the scholar who prepared all this detail would NEVER get wrong which
way was up [ south ]

I repeat , show me where inEgypt matches

Cos I can show you where it perfectly in EVERY detail matches my site
in SOUTH AUSTRALIA

It matters not what we think mate

This is simply a matter of checking the FACTS

Who cares what we think

The FACTS can be checked and soon will be

kanga
=====


Slide #102
TITLE: Turin Papyrus
DATE: 1,300 B.C.
AUTHOR: unknown
DESCRIPTION: In so far as cartography is concerned, perhaps the
greatest extant Egyptian achievement is represented by the Turin
Papyrus, collected by Bernardino Drovetti before 1824 and now
preserved in the Egizio Museum of Turin, Italy.

The papyrus scroll artifact probably dates from 3,100 B.C. with the
map apparently prepared around the reign of Ramses IV (1,150 B.C.),
who initiated a systematic land survey of his entire empire.

The extant papyrus consists of two principal sections, earlier thought
to belong to two different documents.

The more important section is a fragment, measuring approximately
forty centimeters high, generally called the "map of the gold mines".

It depicts two broad roads, running parallel to each other through
pinkish-red mountainous regions. They are drawn horizontally across
the papyrus, the lower with indications of a rocky bed or sparse
vegetation, characteristic of the larger dried-up watercourses or
wadis that form the natural routes across the eastern desert from the
Nile to the Red Sea.

Legends written in hieratic, the cursive hierogliphic everyday hand of
the time, explain where these routes to the left are leading. A broad,
winding crossway wadi connects the two routes, from which an
alternative route is indicated and labeled, also leading to the left.

Running vertically from the upper route is yet another road with
hieratic text that gives its destination. The significance of the area
painted red is explained by another legend that reads, "the mountains
where gold is washed: they are colored in red."

The term "mountains of gold" is repeated elsewhere in the area
colored red, as well as apparently the phase "mountains of silver and
gold." In places the red area is brought to a point and given a
distinctive name such as "the peak" or "the peak on which Amun is."


There are other distinctive features outlined, colored, and labeled in
hieratic.

Near the junction of the cross valley with the upper route a
circular, dark-colored image is marked, with a second partially
overlapping design in a darker black line. The figure is probably
intended to represent a well, though no text identifies it.

A little below and to the right of the design is another, more oblong
in shape, colored green with the zigzag lines by which the ancient
Egyptians conventionally represented water.

Within the design there are traces of a hieratic group, apparently to
be read as "cistern", "water-place," or the like.

In the same central section of the map a round-topped stela is also
indicated in white, with a legend dating it to the reign of Sethos l
of the Nineteenth Dynasty.

There are also two man-made features on the upper side of the upper
route.

One is clearly a large building containing several courts or rooms
with connecting doors, described as the "shrine", "resting place" or
"abode" of "Amun of the Pure Mountain."

There are also three small rectangular forms labeled "the houses of
the gold working settlement."
============================================================
The second section of the papyrus comprises a number of fragments for
which the final placement, based on careful study of the fibers of the
papyrus, has yet to be made.

I HAVE NIL INTEREST IN ANYTHING IN THE REST OF THIS SCROLL

Its principal feature is the continuation of the wide, winding route
of the wadi interspersed with stones. This constitutes the lower route
of the other section. In contrast with the gold-mine section, the area
on each side of the road is colored black, and the legend indicates
that in this area the stone known to the ancient Egyptians is bekhen
is to be found. This black or dark green stone, generally called
schist by Egyptian archaeologists, is more properly identified as
graywacke.
===============================================================
The surviving fragments give no indication of precise locations
comparable to those found on the section depicting the gold mining
region and its settlements.

The Turin Papyrus fragments were long considered the earliest
surviving topographical map from Egypt to have come to light.

The papyrus clearly has a character distinct from the cosmological
drawings of the universe or of the routes to or depiction of the after-
life found within the formal context of religious art.
The draftsman has distributed distinctive features in accordance with
the reality of a particular area, adding clarity by the use of legends
and contrasting colors.

SOME CLAIM The texts indicate that the area depicted must be along
the natural route from Coptos (Qift) on the Nile through the eastern
desert via Wadi al-Hammamat to the port of Quseir on the Red Sea.

THE MAP SHOW THE WAY TO THE SEA , NO MENTION OF WHAT SEA



This route was used in ancient times in the course of expeditions to
the Red Sea for trading voyages south to the land known to the
Egyptians as Punt [Somaliland].

The central area, between Bir Al-Hammamat and Bir Umm Fawakhir, was
visited as a source of ornamental stone and of gold, and it is rich in
rock tables recording quarrying expeditions and in archaeological
evidence of ancient gold mining. More precise location rests on the
interpretation of the orientation of the map.

This requires the resolution of questions concerning the placement of
fragments in the second section and the identification of the places
to which the roads to the left of the viewer are said to lead.

In descriptions of property in the later period of the points of the
compass are given in the order south, north, east, west, suggesting
that Egyptians oriented themselves facing south, with north behind
them, the west to their right and the east to their left.

It would be natural, then, for them to designate the top of papyrus
as South.

Such a view seems to be supported by the legend designating the upper
route of the gold map leading off to the left as "the road that leads
to the ym," that is, to the sea," taking ym in its most common
meaning. The route marked as leading off from the cross valley to the
left is likewise described as "another road that leads to the ym."

The placement of the second section to the right of the map of the
gold region seems correct, since it would then constitute the
beginning of a papyrus roll, which would normally suffer greater
damage.

The map would then show on the right (that is, the west) the darker
"schist" areas of the main part of Wadi al-Hammamat, with the gold
mines of the region of Bir Umm Fawakhir some twenty-five kilometers to
the east.

A more recent comparison of the features shown on the map with the
ground matches the various features specifically mentioned in the gold
map with the central area of Wadi al-Hammamat and with the upper part
of the papyrus constituting the North.

If this placement were correct and the fragments of the second
portion were to be placed to the right, it would require the ym to
which the road now leads westward, that is, back to the Nile, to be
taken in some sense other than Red Sea.

It would likewise place the area of bekhen stone to the east of the
location of the main quarry inscriptions in Wadi al-Hammamat.

The difficulties in matching features depicted and labeled on the
papyrus with those on the ground are compounded by the absence of any
indications of scale.

The map seems to be a freehand drawing. The only indication of its
purpose seems to be given in the series of hieratic notations written
on those areas left blank above and below the route and the black
areas depicted on the fragments of the second section.

In contrast with the hieratic texts on the gold map identifying
geographical features, these texts refer to the transport of a statute
on the rt of the papyrus.

A text of five lines, of which the first four lack their beginnings,
seems to reflect a situation in which a king sent an expedition to the
Wadi al-Hammamat to bring a statue back to Thebes. It was, we are
informed, deposited in a workshop beside the mortuary temple of
Ramesses II (Ramesseum) on the west bank of the Nile of Thebes and
subsequently taken, half-worked, to the Valley of the Kings in a
regnal year 6. Such a docket must have been written at Thebes, the
papyrus obviously having been at some time in the possession of one of
the scribes attached to the work gang responsible for constructing and
decorating the royal tombs in the Valley of the Kings. Jottings on the
back of the papyrus include a reference to the statute of Ramesses IV
of the Twentieth Dynasty, suggesting that year 6 should refer to the
reign of that king. The purpose of the map is still obscure.
Annotations on the second portion of the papyrus suggest that the
document was drawn up in connection with work on the extraction and
transport of stone, ultimately destined perhaps for a royal tomb in
the Valley of the Kings. Some of these notes seem to give measurements
of blocks; one seems to provide measurements of actual distances
separating points on the map. The papyrus may be the result of
calculations of distances for logistical purposes. To judge from
instructions contained in a model letter copied by a pupil as part of
his scribal training (instructions that seem to refer to the same
general area as the Turin Map ), calculations of distance are the kind
of work a scribe might be expected to do.

What is unusual is that a rough sketch map is included. Surveying
rarely resulted in graphic maps, and in this respect ancient Egypt is
very similar to medieval Europe until well into the 14th and 15th
centuries.

In summary then, the orientation of this particular map places South
at the top.

The geographical content depicts three roads leading from
unidentified Egyptian gold mines to the sea.

A prominent feature of the plan is what seems to be a winding wadi, or
ravine, about the same width as the roads, in the mountains of Egypt's
eastern desert between Qift on the Nile, down from Thebes, and Quseir
on the Red Sea. The map was drawn in connection with a statue of a
pharaoh which had never been completed. It is believed that this map
also displays the gold-bearing basin to the east of Coptos (shown in
pink on the original map) in the mountainous region of Nubia [part of
modem Sudan] located at Bir Umm Fawakhir in the Wadi Hammamat. The
scroll notes the locations of the mine and quarry, the gold and silver
content of surrounding mountains and the destination of the roadways.
The mapmaker has tried to show how the two main east-west roads lie in
valleys that are linked by a road that curves through a mountain pass.
One of the roads runs from Pelusium to Heroopolis.

On either side of the main roads the map outlines sawtooth mountain
ranges in an early attempt at rendering topographical detail.

The nature of the country, the houses, buildings and entrances to
galleries are also illustrated. The map is thought by some scholars to
commemorate the triumphal return of Seti I from Syria (1366-1333
B.C.).

Two geologists from the University of Toledo in Ohio examined the map
and recognized topographical features from the map, a roadway still in
use and the mountains on both sides, shown as cones. The colors pink,
brown, black and white were used to illustrate mountains and other
features; however, the geologists James Harrell and Max Brown believe
that these colors were not used for aesthetics, but that they
"correspond with the actual appearance of the rocks making up the
mountains". One region's sedimentary rocks, which range from purplish
to dark gray and dark green, are mapped in black. Pink granitic rocks
correspond with the scroll's pink and brown-streaked mountain.
According to these geologists, this is probably one of the oldest
surviving geological maps and the earliest evidence of geological
thought. According to the geologist Harrell, "In order for it to be a
geological map, it must show distribution of different rock types.
Secondarily, it should indicate the location of geological features
like mountains and valleys. In both regards the scroll qualifies and
reminds us of modern geological mapping." The English surveyor William
Smith is credited with initiating modern geologic mapmaking in 1815.

LOCATION: Egizio Museum, Turin, Italy
http://www.henry-davis.com/MAPS/AncientWebPages/102mono.html
s***@neuf.fr
2009-04-29 19:56:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter Alaca
Post by kangarooistan
Certainly dont believe ANY THIING you read online
That is why we don't believe you
Post by kangarooistan
[...]
Just speak for yourself Alaca The Dull, since when are you using WE
for the first person ...

... anything you can utter in your crass ignorance ( indeed a
Glaciationzz & Fossils based Column of Ages ) , Alaca The Dull, as to
start by I do or I don't !! Okay Dork ?

One is certain then, none gives two hoots for what you think or do
indeed !

No reply to my friend Mr Kanga, I am deeply inpressed by all the
research you went through regarding the FAM ( Fabian Ancient Mine ) of
SA
I have to read it again more thoroughly, but one word of caution
though : Do not give any value to the André Dollinger 's site. Of
course the chronology is completely blurred and if interested I will
give you an excellent reference to scholars ' work putting things in
right perspective

Again, your mail to me as not as yet reached me. This is a temporary
address like those I create & erase once flooded by spams ! Still try
it again !!!
By Jove it has to come though... ***@neuf.fr

With best regards to you Mr Kanga.

jpturcauc
kangarooistan
2009-04-29 13:39:53 UTC
Permalink
.
Post by Peter Alaca
Post by kangarooistan
Certainly dont believe ANY THIING you read online
That is why we don't believe you
Did the person who made the maps know which way was SOUTH ???

He was an eye witness and a highly qualified Egyptologist over 3000
years ago

TOPOGRAPHIC AND GEOLOGIC CONTENT OF THE MAP
http://www.eeescience.utoledo.edu/Faculty/Harrell/Egypt/Turin%20Papyrus/Harrell_Papyrus_Map_fig-1.jpg
note south appears at top of Ancient Egyptian maps

The Turin papyrus map is notable for being the only
topographic map to survive from ancient Egypt and also for being one
of the earliest maps in the world with real geographic content.
Although there are a few older topographic maps from outside Egypt,
they are all quite crude and rather abstract in comparison to the
relatively modern-looking map drawn on the Turin papyrus. This map
shows a 15 km stretch of Wadi Hammamat (‘Valley of Many Baths’) in the
central part of Egypt’s Eastern Desert (Figure 1).
=============================================================
The top is oriented toward the south and the source of the Nile River
with west on the right side , and east to the sea is left.

Its confusing for the modern eye to reverse the map , hence my claim
the famous " gold mine ' depicted is not in Egypt , as it was made he
by the most famous Egyptologist of his day and he was an eye witness
and no fool , he knew which way was to the sea and which way was south
[ top ]

This is PROOF the gold mine pictured is NOT in Egypt , two roads
marked as going to the sea are going in the wrong direction

Number1 Translation



1 the road that leads to the sea



2 another road that leads to the sea
==============================================================
There is no constant scale used on the map, but by comparison with
the actual distances in Wadi Hamamat it is evident that the scale
varies between 50 and 100 m for each 1 cm on the map.

The map of interest " the gold mine "
sections A to d cover about 75 x 45 cm

About 7500 x 4500 meters max , perhaps half that

The Turin Papyrus is reported to be a 2 meters long mining map

I claim the left hand section , is different and unrelated to the
rest , it even looks different , I only hold interest in section
marked A , but B , C and D are probable from the same map often
refered to as ' The Gold mine " from the written messages it
contains , the rest are of no interest to me as they refer to mining
stone

the original fragments identified , only the first 4 interest me
http://www.eeescience.utoledo.edu/Faculty/Harrell/Egypt/Turin%20Papyrus/Harrell_Papyrus_Map_fig-2.jpg
There is writting on the reverse that maybe totallyunrelated recycling
of the old maps , of no interest to me ?
http://www.eeescience.utoledo.edu/Faculty/Harrell/Egypt/Turin%20Papyrus/Harrell_Papyrus_Map_fig-7.jpg
I claim I know a site that fits the map on the left , in every
detail, and the buildings , roads ,river , hills and valleys and the
features near the center , as marked , are identifiable still ,The
Turin Papyrus looks as if It was an artists reconstruction drawn
very recently

it is NOT in Egypt

It is in South Australia

Yes I know you have heard this sort of claim before

but if you keep an open mind and examine the FACTS , they claim
there is a site in Egypt , I claim the site is in South Australia

One of us is wrong , the sites can be examined , If it fits like a
glove on this end , in minute detail and there is no site in Egypt
that even closely fits its worth digging around a bit to ask WHY

Once both sites are EXAMINED , then laugh at why nobody noticed
before , the far left map is different to the rest , why assume the
section at the start / left / fragments A, B, C and D are the same
area as the other sections , they have nothing in common but mining ,
and i dont recognize them

Turin papyrus in color with description
http://www.eeescience.utoledo.edu/Faculty/Harrell/Egypt/Turin%20Papyrus/Harrell_Papyrus_Map_text.htm

Turin papyrus computer image
http://www.eeescience.utoledo.edu/Faculty/Harrell/Egypt/Turin%20Papyrus/Harrell_Papyrus_Map_fig-3.jpg

The Egyptian Topographic map of the site
http://www.eeescience.utoledo.edu/Faculty/Harrell/Egypt/Turin%20Papyrus/Harrell_Papyrus_Map_fig-9.jpg
.
the Egyptian site with scripts numbered and laid out on the
topographic map
http://www.eeescience.utoledo.edu/Faculty/Harrell/Egypt/Turin%20Papyrus/Harrell_Papyrus_Map_fig-9.jpg
.
Table 1: Translations of the hieratic texts on the map side of the
Turin papyrus (adapted from Harrell and Brown 1992: Table 1)
http://www.eeescience.utoledo.edu/Faculty/Harrell/Egypt/Turin%20Papyrus/Harrell_Papyrus_Map_table-1.htm

______________________________________________________________

Text

Number1 Translation



1 the road that leads to the sea



2 another road that leads to the sea



3 the road of Tent-p-mer [the translation of the last word
is uncertain –

it may be the name of an unknown locality or it may mean ‘treasurer’
or ‘harbor’]



4 mountains of gold



5 mountains of gold



6 the houses of the gold-working settlement



7 cistern [or ‘water reservoir’; the text is written
on top of the water sign]



8 stela of Menma’atre, life, health and prosperity! [king
Sety I, 1290-1279 BC,

of the New Kingdom’s 19th Dynasty]2



9 the road of Ta-menti [the last word is apparently the
name of an unknown locality]



10 the shrine of Amun of the pure mountain



11 the mountains in which gold is worked, they are
colored pink



12 mountains of gold and silver [or perhaps ‘mountains of
electrum’, where electrum is a natural mixture of gold and silver]=
green gold
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gold#Color_of_gold



13 …the hill of Amun



14 the hill where Amun rests



15 [not translatable; appears to be part of a name for
some locality]


16 [too fragmentary to translate, but it appears to be
comments on travel from one unnamed locality to another; a travel
time of ‘one day’ and ‘gold’ are mentioned]



16’ mountains of gold [appears to be a continuation of 16 but
is a separate text]



17 distance from the gold-working settlement to the mountain
of bekheny,…khet

[this text is repeated three times, apparently for emphasis; the
distance in units of khet is missing]3,4

Besides being a topographic map of surprisingly modern aspect, the
Turin papyrus is also a geologic map because it accurately shows the
geographic distribution of different rock types (the black hills with
Hammamat siliciclastics, and the pink hills with Dokhan volcanics,
Atalla serpentinite and Fawakhir granite) and the lithologically
diverse wadi gravel (the brown, green and white dots within the main
valley that represent different kinds of rocks), and it also contains
information on quarrying and mining (see Table 2 for a description of
the geologic units).

Additionally notable are the representation of iron-stained, gold-
bearing quartz veins with three radiating bands on the pink hill above
the gold-mining settIement on fragment A (beneath text 5), and text 11
on fragment A, which reads very much like a legend on modern geologic
maps by explaining what the pink coloring represents.

The Turin papyrus is the oldest known geologic map in the world and
it is all the more remarkable considering that it would be another
2900 years before the next geologic map was made and this was in
France during the mid-1700’s.

There is no reason to think, however, that the ancient author
intentionally set out to make a geologic map. From the colors used for
the hills and wadi gravel, it is evident that he merely drew what he
literally saw in the desert – the real hills and surface gravels have
the same general colors as those on the map (Table 2).


THE MAP’S AUTHOR AND PURPOSE

The map was made about 1150 BC by the well-known ‘Scribe of the Tomb‘
Amennakhte, son of Ipuy (Figure 11).

Although Amennakhte did not sign his name to the map, it is clear
that he is its author. There are two pieces of evidence that support
this identification.

First, the text on the map side is in Amennakhte’s distinctive
handwriting, which is well known to Egyptologists who have studied his
many other writings. And second, the first and earliest text on the
backside of the papyrus (the first one listed in Table 3) was written
and signed by Amennakhte. It is not at all surprising that Amennakhte
would have made the map


and have spent many decades examining the very unusual features at
this site ,every year growing more and more convinced it is indeed a
VERY large , VERY old mine site , predating European settlement by a
VERY long time
Post by Peter Alaca
I just stumbled , on this old Egyptian map and my jaw dropped
I thought it was a joke
I could have drawn it YESTERDAY
Do you know anybody who has examined the mine in Egypt ???
Its a mirror image of the site in South Australia , hard to imagine
such identical natural and man made features being so similar ,
considering its nature who makes the site

There can be no doubt at all on my end , this IS a map of a mine site
in South Australia

This map called the Turin Papyrus the far left panel , is indeed in
South Australia

Do laugh too loud , Im 100% sure , but I know you need more
evidence , that WILL take a while but ,

WATCH THIS SPACE

kanga
======
s***@neuf.fr
2009-04-29 22:00:21 UTC
Permalink
On Apr 29, 8:10 am, kangarooistan <***@gmail.com> wrote:

Very interesting what you say about the Fabian Ancient Mine. or FAM

Quote
...The sea is to the LEFT of the mine, as mentioned TWICE on the
Papyrus
There are several ROADS shown and a river and several buildings and
the extraction area and the quartz zones and the water point and the
workers quarters and the TEMPLE , [ often up high ] ,
Unquote

Are you in position to locate that Temple on you FAM site ?

If so you are onto something really big, dear Mr Kanga.

With best regards

jpturcaud
Sunny
2009-04-29 22:48:01 UTC
Permalink
<***@neuf.fr> wrote in message news:45380a71-a559-40cb-a761-***@z16g2000prd.googlegroups.com...
On Apr 29, 8:10 am, kangarooistan <***@gmail.com> wrote:

<***@neuf.fr> wrote in message news:8cb585ad-54c7-492a-a6d2-***@x31g2000prc.googlegroups.com...
On Apr 29, 8:10 am, kangarooistan <***@gmail.com> wrote:

<snip identical spam>

Turcaud/Kanga, degenerate, perverted, rubber room, psychopathic swine
Stick your enema nozzle into your asinine mouths and drown in
your stupid Turcaud Bath.
You are a blight on Human society, mental midgets and retards.
On a good day you're are half-wits. You remind me of drools. You are
deficient
in all that lends character.
kangarooistan
2009-04-30 13:19:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by s***@neuf.fr
Very interesting what you say about the Fabian Ancient Mine. or FAM
Quote
...The sea is to the LEFT of the mine, as mentioned TWICE on the
Papyrus
There are several ROADS shown and a river and several buildings and
the extraction area and the quartz zones and the water point and the
workers quarters and the TEMPLE , [ often up high ] ,
Unquote
Are you in position to locate that Temple on you FAM site ?
YES exactly where marked mate , its ALL EXACTLY as marked , its been
over 2000 years but it is still able to be recognized as the Turin
gold mine , by any competent expert on old mine sites , hence my
ongoing interest

I only noticed the Turin map while researching the iron tool , it HAS
unlocked the entire site

The Author of the map is very well respected and now more light can be
seen in his writing theymade little sense in an Egyptian mine and the
Hapshepsup " green gold of Emu " now makes sense too , as do the
boomerangs and DNA and the words and even the " Two Mates " story ,
may be from this early contact as Egypt has a very similar version
Post by s***@neuf.fr
If so you are onto something really big, dear Mr Kanga.
Yes mate

This will re write history

Let them laugh mate

Themap and the mine will speak for them selves

The author has many insights that could not be understood until you
visit the site when it SLOWLY sinks in

Its ALL there right before your eyes mate

MANY thanks for your encouragement and advise and faith Sir JPT

You will be given due credit , as the FIRST to understand what this
means mate

The tool has beenused to explain the site to several people ,i was
hoping you may be first

BUT with the Turin map , mate , the tool becomes only one of HUNDREDS
of facts to support my claims , so easily seen EXACTLY as the map
shows , detail I had not noticed till I visited the site today
confirmed further my gut feelings ,nobody could recreate a mine 7500
meters by 45000 meters
Post by s***@neuf.fr
With best regards
Hi Sir jpturcaud

Had a very busy day at the site with 2 others checking it against the
Turin gold map

EVERY LAST thing on the turin map is exactly as marked

Stuff that could only bee known by very intimate first hand knowlefge

Stuff I had not ever noticed is EXACTLY where shown on the Turin map

The distances between the things is EXACTLY as marked on the Turin map

ALL FACING EXACTLY the right direction

The Turin gold mine is in SOUTH AUSTRALIA

There is no doubt what so ever

We are going back tomorrow to do more , we ran out of time

I kid you not Sir JPT
http://mail.google.com/mail/h/j34ur7rwpv3m/?view=att&th=120e0fd6c757ddc7&attid=0.1&disp=inline&zw

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turin_Papyrus_Map
o***@neuf.fr
2009-04-29 22:04:50 UTC
Permalink
On Apr 29, 8:10 am, kangarooistan <***@gmail.com> wrote:

Dear Mr Kanga,

As you say:

Quote
The sea is to the LEFT of the mine, as mentioned TWICE on the Papyrus
There are several ROADS shown and a river and several buildings and
the extraction area and the quartz zones and the water point and the
workers quarters and the TEMPLE , [ often up high ] ,
Unquote

Are you able to locate that Temple on you Fabian Ancient Mine ( FAM )
site ?

If so you have made a major Archaeological discovery indeed, and
further modified the History of Australia

With best regards

jpturcaud
kangarooistan
2009-04-29 06:03:18 UTC
Permalink
.
Post by J.LyonLayden
Which one 9the mine or the papyrus) was 30,000 years old, as per the
headline to his thread?
Who claims 30,000 years mate , the OP said 3000

the scholars all agree the papyrus map is 3160 years old and the
mine was well established them , and some claim the right hand section
speaks about stuff 5000 years old but I claim the two sections should
be viewed as separate documents as the sure look and read and subject
matter as well as time and style , the ONLY thing in common is they
are both about mines

with due respect I have no interest in what you think mate

, its a simple map , matched to a mine site , its simply a matter of
do they match or not , what is happening in the sections to the
right of the " gold map " matters little , they dont deal with gold
mining but stone cutting and IMHO have no connection to the section on
the gold mine

The gold map ' at the start on the Turin Papyrus , is so very
different to the rest , it is clearly no part of the rest IMHO

Either way I am only interested in the first, left hand map

Referred to as the" gold mine " in the text

Scholars debate it exact location as it is upside down if you try and
interpret the direction to the sea , as mentioned twice , as
Egyptians draw maps with south at the TOP this map can NOT be about a
mine in Egypt

The sea is to the LEFT of the mine, as mentioned TWICE on the Papyrus

There are several ROADS shown and a river and several buildings and
the extraction area and the quartz zones and the water point and the
workers quarters and the TEMPLE , [ often up high ] ,

EVERY LAST FEATURE MENTIONED PERFECTLY MATCHES THE MINE IN SOUTH
AUSTRALIA EXACTLY

No mine in Egypt come close , even if you read it upside down which
the scholar who prepared all this detail would NEVER get wrong which
way was up [ south ]

I repeat , show me where inEgypt matches

Cos I can show you where it perfectly in EVERY detail matches my site
in SOUTH AUSTRALIA

It matters not what we think mate

This is simply a matter of checking the FACTS

Who cares what we think

The FACTS can be checked and soon will be

kanga
=====


Slide #102
TITLE: Turin Papyrus
DATE: 1,300 B.C.
AUTHOR: unknown
DESCRIPTION: In so far as cartography is concerned, perhaps the
greatest extant Egyptian achievement is represented by the Turin
Papyrus, collected by Bernardino Drovetti before 1824 and now
preserved in the Egizio Museum of Turin, Italy.

The papyrus scroll artifact probably dates from 3,100 B.C. with the
map apparently prepared around the reign of Ramses IV (1,150 B.C.),
who initiated a systematic land survey of his entire empire.

The extant papyrus consists of two principal sections, earlier thought
to belong to two different documents.

The more important section is a fragment, measuring approximately
forty centimeters high, generally called the "map of the gold mines".

It depicts two broad roads, running parallel to each other through
pinkish-red mountainous regions. They are drawn horizontally across
the papyrus, the lower with indications of a rocky bed or sparse
vegetation, characteristic of the larger dried-up watercourses or
wadis that form the natural routes across the eastern desert from the
Nile to the Red Sea.

Legends written in hieratic, the cursive hierogliphic everyday hand of
the time, explain where these routes to the left are leading. A broad,
winding crossway wadi connects the two routes, from which an
alternative route is indicated and labeled, also leading to the left.

Running vertically from the upper route is yet another road with
hieratic text that gives its destination. The significance of the area
painted red is explained by another legend that reads, "the mountains
where gold is washed: they are colored in red."

The term "mountains of gold" is repeated elsewhere in the area
colored red, as well as apparently the phase "mountains of silver and
gold." In places the red area is brought to a point and given a
distinctive name such as "the peak" or "the peak on which Amun is."


There are other distinctive features outlined, colored, and labeled in
hieratic.

Near the junction of the cross valley with the upper route a
circular, dark-colored image is marked, with a second partially
overlapping design in a darker black line. The figure is probably
intended to represent a well, though no text identifies it.

A little below and to the right of the design is another, more oblong
in shape, colored green with the zigzag lines by which the ancient
Egyptians conventionally represented water.

Within the design there are traces of a hieratic group, apparently to
be read as "cistern", "water-place," or the like.

In the same central section of the map a round-topped stela is also
indicated in white, with a legend dating it to the reign of Sethos l
of the Nineteenth Dynasty.

There are also two man-made features on the upper side of the upper
route.

One is clearly a large building containing several courts or rooms
with connecting doors, described as the "shrine", "resting place" or
"abode" of "Amun of the Pure Mountain."

There are also three small rectangular forms labeled "the houses of
the gold working settlement."
============================================================
The second section of the papyrus comprises a number of fragments for
which the final placement, based on careful study of the fibers of the
papyrus, has yet to be made.

I HAVE NIL INTEREST IN ANYTHING IN THE REST OF THIS SCROLL

Its principal feature is the continuation of the wide, winding route
of the wadi interspersed with stones. This constitutes the lower route
of the other section. In contrast with the gold-mine section, the area
on each side of the road is colored black, and the legend indicates
that in this area the stone known to the ancient Egyptians is bekhen
is to be found. This black or dark green stone, generally called
schist by Egyptian archaeologists, is more properly identified as
graywacke.
===============================================================
The surviving fragments give no indication of precise locations
comparable to those found on the section depicting the gold mining
region and its settlements.

The Turin Papyrus fragments were long considered the earliest
surviving topographical map from Egypt to have come to light.

The papyrus clearly has a character distinct from the cosmological
drawings of the universe or of the routes to or depiction of the after-
life found within the formal context of religious art.
The draftsman has distributed distinctive features in accordance with
the reality of a particular area, adding clarity by the use of legends
and contrasting colors.

SOME CLAIM The texts indicate that the area depicted must be along
the natural route from Coptos (Qift) on the Nile through the eastern
desert via Wadi al-Hammamat to the port of Quseir on the Red Sea.

THE MAP SHOW THE WAY TO THE SEA , NO MENTION OF WHAT SEA



This route was used in ancient times in the course of expeditions to
the Red Sea for trading voyages south to the land known to the
Egyptians as Punt [Somaliland].

The central area, between Bir Al-Hammamat and Bir Umm Fawakhir, was
visited as a source of ornamental stone and of gold, and it is rich in
rock tables recording quarrying expeditions and in archaeological
evidence of ancient gold mining. More precise location rests on the
interpretation of the orientation of the map.

This requires the resolution of questions concerning the placement of
fragments in the second section and the identification of the places
to which the roads to the left of the viewer are said to lead.

In descriptions of property in the later period of the points of the
compass are given in the order south, north, east, west, suggesting
that Egyptians oriented themselves facing south, with north behind
them, the west to their right and the east to their left.

It would be natural, then, for them to designate the top of papyrus
as South.

Such a view seems to be supported by the legend designating the upper
route of the gold map leading off to the left as "the road that leads
to the ym," that is, to the sea," taking ym in its most common
meaning. The route marked as leading off from the cross valley to the
left is likewise described as "another road that leads to the ym."

The placement of the second section to the right of the map of the
gold region seems correct, since it would then constitute the
beginning of a papyrus roll, which would normally suffer greater
damage.

The map would then show on the right (that is, the west) the darker
"schist" areas of the main part of Wadi al-Hammamat, with the gold
mines of the region of Bir Umm Fawakhir some twenty-five kilometers to
the east.

A more recent comparison of the features shown on the map with the
ground matches the various features specifically mentioned in the gold
map with the central area of Wadi al-Hammamat and with the upper part
of the papyrus constituting the North.

If this placement were correct and the fragments of the second
portion were to be placed to the right, it would require the ym to
which the road now leads westward, that is, back to the Nile, to be
taken in some sense other than Red Sea.

It would likewise place the area of bekhen stone to the east of the
location of the main quarry inscriptions in Wadi al-Hammamat.

The difficulties in matching features depicted and labeled on the
papyrus with those on the ground are compounded by the absence of any
indications of scale.

The map seems to be a freehand drawing. The only indication of its
purpose seems to be given in the series of hieratic notations written
on those areas left blank above and below the route and the black
areas depicted on the fragments of the second section.

In contrast with the hieratic texts on the gold map identifying
geographical features, these texts refer to the transport of a statute
on the rt of the papyrus.

A text of five lines, of which the first four lack their beginnings,
seems to reflect a situation in which a king sent an expedition to the
Wadi al-Hammamat to bring a statue back to Thebes. It was, we are
informed, deposited in a workshop beside the mortuary temple of
Ramesses II (Ramesseum) on the west bank of the Nile of Thebes and
subsequently taken, half-worked, to the Valley of the Kings in a
regnal year 6. Such a docket must have been written at Thebes, the
papyrus obviously having been at some time in the possession of one of
the scribes attached to the work gang responsible for constructing and
decorating the royal tombs in the Valley of the Kings. Jottings on the
back of the papyrus include a reference to the statute of Ramesses IV
of the Twentieth Dynasty, suggesting that year 6 should refer to the
reign of that king. The purpose of the map is still obscure.
Annotations on the second portion of the papyrus suggest that the
document was drawn up in connection with work on the extraction and
transport of stone, ultimately destined perhaps for a royal tomb in
the Valley of the Kings. Some of these notes seem to give measurements
of blocks; one seems to provide measurements of actual distances
separating points on the map. The papyrus may be the result of
calculations of distances for logistical purposes. To judge from
instructions contained in a model letter copied by a pupil as part of
his scribal training (instructions that seem to refer to the same
general area as the Turin Map ), calculations of distance are the kind
of work a scribe might be expected to do.

What is unusual is that a rough sketch map is included. Surveying
rarely resulted in graphic maps, and in this respect ancient Egypt is
very similar to medieval Europe until well into the 14th and 15th
centuries.

In summary then, the orientation of this particular map places South
at the top.

The geographical content depicts three roads leading from
unidentified Egyptian gold mines to the sea.

A prominent feature of the plan is what seems to be a winding wadi, or
ravine, about the same width as the roads, in the mountains of Egypt's
eastern desert between Qift on the Nile, down from Thebes, and Quseir
on the Red Sea. The map was drawn in connection with a statue of a
pharaoh which had never been completed. It is believed that this map
also displays the gold-bearing basin to the east of Coptos (shown in
pink on the original map) in the mountainous region of Nubia [part of
modem Sudan] located at Bir Umm Fawakhir in the Wadi Hammamat. The
scroll notes the locations of the mine and quarry, the gold and silver
content of surrounding mountains and the destination of the roadways.
The mapmaker has tried to show how the two main east-west roads lie in
valleys that are linked by a road that curves through a mountain pass.
One of the roads runs from Pelusium to Heroopolis.

On either side of the main roads the map outlines sawtooth mountain
ranges in an early attempt at rendering topographical detail.

The nature of the country, the houses, buildings and entrances to
galleries are also illustrated. The map is thought by some scholars to
commemorate the triumphal return of Seti I from Syria (1366-1333
B.C.).

Two geologists from the University of Toledo in Ohio examined the map
and recognized topographical features from the map, a roadway still in
use and the mountains on both sides, shown as cones. The colors pink,
brown, black and white were used to illustrate mountains and other
features; however, the geologists James Harrell and Max Brown believe
that these colors were not used for aesthetics, but that they
"correspond with the actual appearance of the rocks making up the
mountains". One region's sedimentary rocks, which range from purplish
to dark gray and dark green, are mapped in black. Pink granitic rocks
correspond with the scroll's pink and brown-streaked mountain.
According to these geologists, this is probably one of the oldest
surviving geological maps and the earliest evidence of geological
thought. According to the geologist Harrell, "In order for it to be a
geological map, it must show distribution of different rock types.
Secondarily, it should indicate the location of geological features
like mountains and valleys. In both regards the scroll qualifies and
reminds us of modern geological mapping." The English surveyor William
Smith is credited with initiating modern geologic mapmaking in 1815.

LOCATION: Egizio Museum, Turin, Italy
http://www.henry-davis.com/MAPS/AncientWebPages/102mono.html
george
2009-04-29 04:39:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by J.LyonLayden
Which one 9the mine or the papyrus) was 30,000 years old, as per the
headline to his thread?
captain Kanga Kook strikes again.
Jack Linthicum
2009-04-29 12:46:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by Eric Stevens
On Tue, 28 Apr 2009 13:24:23 -0700 (PDT), Jack Linthicum
Post by Jack Linthicum
Post by kangarooistan
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turin_Papyrus_Map
The Turin Papyrus is reported to be a 2 meters long mining map
I claim the left hand section ,  is different and unrelated to the
rest , it even looks different ,
I claim I know a site that fits the map on the left in every detail,
and the buildings , roads ,river , hills and valleys  and the 4
features near the centre  , as  marked , are  identifiable still as if
It was drawn very recently
it is NOT in Egypt
It is in South Australia
Yes I know you have heard this sort of claim before
, but keep an open mind and examine the FACTS , they claim there is a
site in Egypt I claim the site is in South Australia
One of us is wrong , the sites can be examined , it fits like a glove
on this end ,  in minute detail
Once both sites are EXAMINED , then laugh at why nobody noticed
before , the far left map is different to the rest , why assume its
the same area as the other sections
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/ba/TurinPapyrus1.jpgh......
I found this object at the site recentlyhttp://mail.google.com/mail/h/9c8k6m41k4i6/?view=att&th=120e0fd6c757d...
, and have spent many decades examining the very unusual features at
this site ,every year growing more and more convinced it is indeed a
VERY large ,  VERY old mine site , predating European settlement by a
VERY long time
I just stumbled ,  on this old Egyptian map and my jaw dropped
I thought it was a joke
I could have drawn it YESTERDAY
Do you know anybody who has examined the mine in Egypt ???
Its a mirror image of the site in South Australia , hard to imagine
such identical natural and man made features being so similar ,
considering its nature who makes the site
There can be no doubt at all on my end , this IS a map of a mine site
in South Australia
This map called the Turin Papyrus the far left panel ,  is indeed in
South Australia
Do laugh too loud , Im 100% sure , but I know you need more evidence ,
that WILL take a while but ,
 WATCH THIS SPACE
kanga
======
You think 3600 years might have changed some of that area? Even if the
map is totally accurate? If so, I have a map of Vinland I can let go
for a really low price.
Depending where it is in South Australia, 3,600 years is but a
twinkling of an eye. The country is harsh and arid. Whatever can blow
away has blown away many thousands of years ago. Depending whereabouts
this mine may be, rainfall is but a light sprinkle ranging up to a
downpour of 18mm/month.
Eric Stevens
South Australia is a study area for wind erosion, wind will erode the
next layer and the next and the next. Ten years would change almost
any unprotected, ie grass covered, area.

http://www.nrm.gov.au/publications/factsheets/me-indicators/soil/pubs/soil-wind.pdf

http://www.tucson.ars.ag.gov/isco/isco10/SustainingTheGlobalFarm/P173-Leyes.pdf

http://lwa.gov.au/products/pn21484
Eric Stevens
2009-04-30 00:04:46 UTC
Permalink
On Wed, 29 Apr 2009 05:46:07 -0700 (PDT), Jack Linthicum
Post by Jack Linthicum
Post by Eric Stevens
On Tue, 28 Apr 2009 13:24:23 -0700 (PDT), Jack Linthicum
Post by Jack Linthicum
Post by kangarooistan
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turin_Papyrus_Map
The Turin Papyrus is reported to be a 2 meters long mining map
I claim the left hand section ,  is different and unrelated to the
rest , it even looks different ,
I claim I know a site that fits the map on the left in every detail,
and the buildings , roads ,river , hills and valleys  and the 4
features near the centre  , as  marked , are  identifiable still as if
It was drawn very recently
it is NOT in Egypt
It is in South Australia
Yes I know you have heard this sort of claim before
, but keep an open mind and examine the FACTS , they claim there is a
site in Egypt I claim the site is in South Australia
One of us is wrong , the sites can be examined , it fits like a glove
on this end ,  in minute detail
Once both sites are EXAMINED , then laugh at why nobody noticed
before , the far left map is different to the rest , why assume its
the same area as the other sections
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/ba/TurinPapyrus1.jpgh......
I found this object at the site recentlyhttp://mail.google.com/mail/h/9c8k6m41k4i6/?view=att&th=120e0fd6c757d...
, and have spent many decades examining the very unusual features at
this site ,every year growing more and more convinced it is indeed a
VERY large ,  VERY old mine site , predating European settlement by a
VERY long time
I just stumbled ,  on this old Egyptian map and my jaw dropped
I thought it was a joke
I could have drawn it YESTERDAY
Do you know anybody who has examined the mine in Egypt ???
Its a mirror image of the site in South Australia , hard to imagine
such identical natural and man made features being so similar ,
considering its nature who makes the site
There can be no doubt at all on my end , this IS a map of a mine site
in South Australia
This map called the Turin Papyrus the far left panel ,  is indeed in
South Australia
Do laugh too loud , Im 100% sure , but I know you need more evidence ,
that WILL take a while but ,
 WATCH THIS SPACE
kanga
======
You think 3600 years might have changed some of that area? Even if the
map is totally accurate? If so, I have a map of Vinland I can let go
for a really low price.
Depending where it is in South Australia, 3,600 years is but a
twinkling of an eye. The country is harsh and arid. Whatever can blow
away has blown away many thousands of years ago. Depending whereabouts
this mine may be, rainfall is but a light sprinkle ranging up to a
downpour of 18mm/month.
Eric Stevens
South Australia is a study area for wind erosion, wind will erode the
next layer and the next and the next. Ten years would change almost
any unprotected, ie grass covered, area.
http://www.nrm.gov.au/publications/factsheets/me-indicators/soil/pubs/soil-wind.pdf
http://www.tucson.ars.ag.gov/isco/isco10/SustainingTheGlobalFarm/P173-Leyes.pdf
http://lwa.gov.au/products/pn21484
The key words in my previous response were "Depending where it is in
South Australia, 3,600 years is but a twinkling of an eye" ....
'depending where it is'. The paper you cited makes refrences to
paddocks and fences and agriculture, and probably is based on the
agricultural land of the south of the state. Fly north for several
hours and you will encounter an entirely different type of country.

I suspect that if Kangarooistan is to be believed, it is probably
possible to identify the mine on Google Earth. I wouldn't mind a
pointer as to where it is.



Eric Stevens
kangarooistan
2009-04-30 13:26:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by Eric Stevens
On Wed, 29 Apr 2009 05:46:07 -0700 (PDT), Jack Linthicum
Post by Jack Linthicum
Post by Eric Stevens
On Tue, 28 Apr 2009 13:24:23 -0700 (PDT), Jack Linthicum
Post by Jack Linthicum
Post by kangarooistan
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turin_Papyrus_Map
The Turin Papyrus is reported to be a 2 meters long mining map
I claim the left hand section ,  is different and unrelated to the
rest , it even looks different ,
I claim I know a site that fits the map on the left in every detail,
and the buildings , roads ,river , hills and valleys  and the 4
features near the centre  , as  marked , are  identifiable still as if
It was drawn very recently
it is NOT in Egypt
It is in South Australia
Yes I know you have heard this sort of claim before
, but keep an open mind and examine the FACTS , they claim there is a
site in Egypt I claim the site is in South Australia
One of us is wrong , the sites can be examined , it fits like a glove
on this end ,  in minute detail
Once both sites are EXAMINED , then laugh at why nobody noticed
before , the far left map is different to the rest , why assume its
the same area as the other sections
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/ba/TurinPapyrus1.jpgh......
I found this object at the site recentlyhttp://mail.google.com/mail/h/9c8k6m41k4i6/?view=att&th=120e0fd6c757d...
, and have spent many decades examining the very unusual features at
this site ,every year growing more and more convinced it is indeed a
VERY large ,  VERY old mine site , predating European settlement by a
VERY long time
I just stumbled ,  on this old Egyptian map and my jaw dropped
I thought it was a joke
I could have drawn it YESTERDAY
Do you know anybody who has examined the mine in Egypt ???
Its a mirror image of the site in South Australia , hard to imagine
such identical natural and man made features being so similar ,
considering its nature who makes the site
There can be no doubt at all on my end , this IS a map of a mine site
in South Australia
This map called the Turin Papyrus the far left panel ,  is indeed in
South Australia
Do laugh too loud , Im 100% sure , but I know you need more evidence ,
that WILL take a while but ,
 WATCH THIS SPACE
kanga
======
You think 3600 years might have changed some of that area? Even if the
map is totally accurate? If so, I have a map of Vinland I can let go
for a really low price.
Depending where it is in South Australia, 3,600 years is but a
twinkling of an eye. The country is harsh and arid. Whatever can blow
away has blown away many thousands of years ago. Depending whereabouts
this mine may be, rainfall is but a light sprinkle ranging up to a
downpour of 18mm/month.
Eric Stevens
South Australia is a study area for wind erosion, wind will erode the
next layer and the next and the next. Ten years would change almost
any unprotected, ie grass covered, area.
http://www.nrm.gov.au/publications/factsheets/me-indicators/soil/pubs...
http://www.tucson.ars.ag.gov/isco/isco10/SustainingTheGlobalFarm/P173...
http://lwa.gov.au/products/pn21484
The key words in my previous response were "Depending where it is in
South Australia, 3,600 years is but a twinkling of an eye"   ....
'depending where it is'. The paper you cited makes refrences to
paddocks and fences and agriculture, and probably is based on the
agricultural land of the south of the state. Fly north for several
hours and you will encounter an entirely different type of country.
I suspect that if Kangarooistan is to be believed, it is probably
possible to identify the mine on Google Earth. I wouldn't mind a
pointer as to where it is.
Hi Eric Stevens

Thanks for your advice mate

The Turin map and the site are REAL

They match EXACTLY

going back very very soon

Be patient , watch this grow legs mate

I was AMAZED to see minute detail I had not noticed EXACTLY where the
map shows

There can be no mistake mate

kanga
=====
Post by Eric Stevens
Are you in position to locate that Temple on you FAM site ?
YES exactly where marked mate , its ALL EXACTLY as marked , its been
over 2000 years but it is still able to be recognized as the Turin
gold mine , by any competent expert on old mine sites , hence my
ongoing interest

I only noticed the Turin map while researching the iron tool , it HAS
unlocked the entire site

The Author of the map is very well respected and now more light can be
seen in his writing theymade little sense in an Egyptian mine and the
Hapshepsup " green gold of Emu " now makes sense too , as do the
boomerangs and DNA and the words and even the " Two Mates " story ,
may be from this early contact as Egypt has a very similar version
Post by Eric Stevens
If so you are onto something really big, dear Mr Kanga.
Yes mate

This will re write history

Let them laugh mate

Themap and the mine will speak for them selves

The author has many insights that could not be understood until you
visit the site when it SLOWLY sinks in

Its ALL there right before your eyes mate

MANY thanks for your encouragement and advise and faith Sir JPT

You will be given due credit , as the FIRST to understand what this
means mate

The tool has beenused to explain the site to several people ,i was
hoping you may be first

BUT with the Turin map , mate , the tool becomes only one of HUNDREDS
of facts to support my claims , so easily seen EXACTLY as the map
shows , detail I had not noticed till I visited the site today
confirmed further my gut feelings ,nobody could recreate a mine 7500
meters by 45000 meters
Post by Eric Stevens
With best regards
Hi Sir jpturcaud

Had a very busy day at the site with 2 others checking it against the
Turin gold map

EVERY LAST thing on the turin map is exactly as marked

Stuff that could only bee known by very intimate first hand knowlefge

Stuff I had not ever noticed is EXACTLY where shown on the Turin map

The distances between the things is EXACTLY as marked on the Turin map

ALL FACING EXACTLY the right direction

The Turin gold mine is in SOUTH AUSTRALIA

There is no doubt what so ever

We are going back tomorrow to do more , we ran out of time

I kid you not Sir JPT
http://mail.google.com/mail/h/j34ur7rwpv3m/?view=att&th=120e0fd6c757ddc7&attid=0.1&disp=inline&zw

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turin_Papyrus_Map
kangarooistan
2009-04-30 14:00:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by kangarooistan
Post by Eric Stevens
On Wed, 29 Apr 2009 05:46:07 -0700 (PDT), Jack Linthicum
Post by Jack Linthicum
Post by Eric Stevens
On Tue, 28 Apr 2009 13:24:23 -0700 (PDT), Jack Linthicum
Post by Jack Linthicum
Post by kangarooistan
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turin_Papyrus_Map
The Turin Papyrus is reported to be a 2 meters long mining map
I claim the left hand section ,  is different and unrelated to the
rest , it even looks different ,
I claim I know a site that fits the map on the left in every detail,
and the buildings , roads ,river , hills and valleys  and the 4
features near the centre  , as  marked , are  identifiable still as if
It was drawn very recently
it is NOT in Egypt
It is in South Australia
Yes I know you have heard this sort of claim before
, but keep an open mind and examine the FACTS , they claim there is a
site in Egypt I claim the site is in South Australia
One of us is wrong , the sites can be examined , it fits like a glove
on this end ,  in minute detail
Once both sites are EXAMINED , then laugh at why nobody noticed
before , the far left map is different to the rest , why assume its
the same area as the other sections
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/ba/TurinPapyrus1.jpgh......
I found this object at the site recentlyhttp://mail.google.com/mail/h/9c8k6m41k4i6/?view=att&th=120e0fd6c757d...
, and have spent many decades examining the very unusual features at
this site ,every year growing more and more convinced it is indeed a
VERY large ,  VERY old mine site , predating European settlement by a
VERY long time
I just stumbled ,  on this old Egyptian map and my jaw dropped
I thought it was a joke
I could have drawn it YESTERDAY
Do you know anybody who has examined the mine in Egypt ???
Its a mirror image of the site in South Australia , hard to imagine
such identical natural and man made features being so similar ,
considering its nature who makes the site
There can be no doubt at all on my end , this IS a map of a mine site
in South Australia
This map called the Turin Papyrus the far left panel ,  is indeed in
South Australia
Do laugh too loud , Im 100% sure , but I know you need more evidence ,
that WILL take a while but ,
 WATCH THIS SPACE
kanga
======
You think 3600 years might have changed some of that area? Even if the
map is totally accurate? If so, I have a map of Vinland I can let go
for a really low price.
Depending where it is in South Australia, 3,600 years is but a
twinkling of an eye. The country is harsh and arid. Whatever can blow
away has blown away many thousands of years ago. Depending whereabouts
this mine may be, rainfall is but a light sprinkle ranging up to a
downpour of 18mm/month.
Eric Stevens
South Australia is a study area for wind erosion, wind will erode the
next layer and the next and the next. Ten years would change almost
any unprotected, ie grass covered, area.
http://www.nrm.gov.au/publications/factsheets/me-indicators/soil/pubs...
http://www.tucson.ars.ag.gov/isco/isco10/SustainingTheGlobalFarm/P173...
http://lwa.gov.au/products/pn21484
The key words in my previous response were "Depending where it is in
South Australia, 3,600 years is but a twinkling of an eye"   ....
'depending where it is'. The paper you cited makes refrences to
paddocks and fences and agriculture, and probably is based on the
agricultural land of the south of the state. Fly north for several
hours and you will encounter an entirely different type of country.
I suspect that if Kangarooistan is to be believed, it is probably
possible to identify the mine on Google Earth. I wouldn't mind a
pointer as to where it is.
Hi Eric Stevens
Thanks for your advice mate
The Turin map and the site are REAL
They match EXACTLY
going back very very soon
Be patient , watch this grow legs mate
I was AMAZED to see minute detail I had not noticed EXACTLY where the
map shows
There can be no mistake mate
kanga
=====
Post by Eric Stevens
Are you in position to locate that Temple on you FAM site ?
YES exactly where marked  mate , its ALL EXACTLY as marked , its been
over 2000 years but it is still able to be recognized as the Turin
gold mine , by any competent expert on old mine sites , hence my
ongoing interest
I only noticed the Turin map while researching the iron tool , it HAS
unlocked the entire site
The Author of the map is very well respected and now more light can be
seen in his writing theymade little sense in an Egyptian mine and the
Hapshepsup " green gold of Emu  " now makes sense too , as do the
boomerangs and DNA and the words and even the " Two Mates " story ,
may be from this early contact as Egypt has a very similar version
Post by Eric Stevens
If so you are onto something really big, dear Mr Kanga.
Yes mate
This will re write history
Let them laugh mate
Themap and the mine will speak for them selves
The author has many insights that could not be understood until you
visit the site when it SLOWLY sinks in
Its ALL there right before your eyes mate
MANY thanks for your encouragement and advise and faith Sir JPT
You will be given due credit , as the FIRST to understand what this
means mate
The tool has beenused to explain the site to several people ,i was
hoping you may be first
BUT with the Turin map , mate , the tool becomes only one of HUNDREDS
of facts to support my claims , so easily seen EXACTLY as the map
shows , detail I had not noticed till I visited the site today
confirmed further my gut feelings ,nobody could recreate a mine 7500
meters by 45000 meters
Post by Eric Stevens
With best regards
Hi Sir jpturcaud
Had a very busy day at the site with 2 others checking it against the
Turin gold map
EVERY LAST thing on the turin map is exactly as marked
Stuff that could only bee known by very intimate first hand knowlefge
Stuff I had not ever noticed is EXACTLY where shown on the Turin map
The distances between the things is EXACTLY as marked on the Turin map
ALL FACING EXACTLY the right direction
The Turin gold mine is in SOUTH AUSTRALIA
There is no doubt what so ever
We are going back tomorrow to do more , we ran out of time
I kid you not Sir JPThttp://mail.google.com/mail/h/j34ur7rwpv3m/?view=att&th=120e0fd6c757d...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turin_Papyrus_Map
OOPS

the mine site is 7500 meters x 4500 meters , I put an extra 0 in the
early post

kanga
=====
Jack Linthicum
2009-04-29 11:15:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by Eric Stevens
On Tue, 28 Apr 2009 13:24:23 -0700 (PDT), Jack Linthicum
Post by Jack Linthicum
Post by kangarooistan
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turin_Papyrus_Map
The Turin Papyrus is reported to be a 2 meters long mining map
I claim the left hand section ,  is different and unrelated to the
rest , it even looks different ,
I claim I know a site that fits the map on the left in every detail,
and the buildings , roads ,river , hills and valleys  and the 4
features near the centre  , as  marked , are  identifiable still as if
It was drawn very recently
it is NOT in Egypt
It is in South Australia
Yes I know you have heard this sort of claim before
, but keep an open mind and examine the FACTS , they claim there is a
site in Egypt I claim the site is in South Australia
One of us is wrong , the sites can be examined , it fits like a glove
on this end ,  in minute detail
Once both sites are EXAMINED , then laugh at why nobody noticed
before , the far left map is different to the rest , why assume its
the same area as the other sections
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/ba/TurinPapyrus1.jpgh......
I found this object at the site recentlyhttp://mail.google.com/mail/h/9c8k6m41k4i6/?view=att&th=120e0fd6c757d...
, and have spent many decades examining the very unusual features at
this site ,every year growing more and more convinced it is indeed a
VERY large ,  VERY old mine site , predating European settlement by a
VERY long time
I just stumbled ,  on this old Egyptian map and my jaw dropped
I thought it was a joke
I could have drawn it YESTERDAY
Do you know anybody who has examined the mine in Egypt ???
Its a mirror image of the site in South Australia , hard to imagine
such identical natural and man made features being so similar ,
considering its nature who makes the site
There can be no doubt at all on my end , this IS a map of a mine site
in South Australia
This map called the Turin Papyrus the far left panel ,  is indeed in
South Australia
Do laugh too loud , Im 100% sure , but I know you need more evidence ,
that WILL take a while but ,
 WATCH THIS SPACE
kanga
======
You think 3600 years might have changed some of that area? Even if the
map is totally accurate? If so, I have a map of Vinland I can let go
for a really low price.
Depending where it is in South Australia, 3,600 years is but a
twinkling of an eye. The country is harsh and arid. Whatever can blow
away has blown away many thousands of years ago. Depending whereabouts
this mine may be, rainfall is but a light sprinkle ranging up to a
downpour of 18mm/month.
Eric Stevens
Doesn't seem to have stopped, one of the problems with wind erosion,
there is always the next layer.


http://www.dwlbc.sa.gov.au/assets/files/windeinsa.pdf

http://lwa.gov.au/products/pn21484

Loading Image...&imgwidth=894&imgheight=671&sc=True&ct=Ross,%20Barnett%20Lonely%20Planet&cw=20&ch=20
Eric Stevens
2009-04-30 03:40:57 UTC
Permalink
On Wed, 29 Apr 2009 04:15:32 -0700 (PDT), Jack Linthicum
Post by Jack Linthicum
Post by Eric Stevens
On Tue, 28 Apr 2009 13:24:23 -0700 (PDT), Jack Linthicum
Post by Jack Linthicum
Post by kangarooistan
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turin_Papyrus_Map
The Turin Papyrus is reported to be a 2 meters long mining map
I claim the left hand section ,  is different and unrelated to the
rest , it even looks different ,
I claim I know a site that fits the map on the left in every detail,
and the buildings , roads ,river , hills and valleys  and the 4
features near the centre  , as  marked , are  identifiable still as if
It was drawn very recently
it is NOT in Egypt
It is in South Australia
Yes I know you have heard this sort of claim before
, but keep an open mind and examine the FACTS , they claim there is a
site in Egypt I claim the site is in South Australia
One of us is wrong , the sites can be examined , it fits like a glove
on this end ,  in minute detail
Once both sites are EXAMINED , then laugh at why nobody noticed
before , the far left map is different to the rest , why assume its
the same area as the other sections
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/ba/TurinPapyrus1.jpgh......
I found this object at the site recentlyhttp://mail.google.com/mail/h/9c8k6m41k4i6/?view=att&th=120e0fd6c757d...
, and have spent many decades examining the very unusual features at
this site ,every year growing more and more convinced it is indeed a
VERY large ,  VERY old mine site , predating European settlement by a
VERY long time
I just stumbled ,  on this old Egyptian map and my jaw dropped
I thought it was a joke
I could have drawn it YESTERDAY
Do you know anybody who has examined the mine in Egypt ???
Its a mirror image of the site in South Australia , hard to imagine
such identical natural and man made features being so similar ,
considering its nature who makes the site
There can be no doubt at all on my end , this IS a map of a mine site
in South Australia
This map called the Turin Papyrus the far left panel ,  is indeed in
South Australia
Do laugh too loud , Im 100% sure , but I know you need more evidence ,
that WILL take a while but ,
 WATCH THIS SPACE
kanga
======
You think 3600 years might have changed some of that area? Even if the
map is totally accurate? If so, I have a map of Vinland I can let go
for a really low price.
Depending where it is in South Australia, 3,600 years is but a
twinkling of an eye. The country is harsh and arid. Whatever can blow
away has blown away many thousands of years ago. Depending whereabouts
this mine may be, rainfall is but a light sprinkle ranging up to a
downpour of 18mm/month.
Eric Stevens
Doesn't seem to have stopped, one of the problems with wind erosion,
there is always the next layer.
http://www.dwlbc.sa.gov.au/assets/files/windeinsa.pdf
http://lwa.gov.au/products/pn21484
https://www.allposters.com/View_HighZoomResPop.asp?apn=3194526&imgloc=21-2188-1ZDAD00Z.jpg&imgwidth=894&imgheight=671&sc=True&ct=Ross,%20Barnett%20Lonely%20Planet&cw=20&ch=20
But that's the rural land near the coastline. What I had in mind is
the possibility of something more like
Loading Image...
and Loading Image...
which can be found several hundred miles to the north.
Nothing tends move without human disturbance.



Eric Stevens
Jack Linthicum
2009-04-30 09:38:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by Eric Stevens
On Wed, 29 Apr 2009 04:15:32 -0700 (PDT), Jack Linthicum
Post by Jack Linthicum
Post by Eric Stevens
On Tue, 28 Apr 2009 13:24:23 -0700 (PDT), Jack Linthicum
Post by Jack Linthicum
Post by kangarooistan
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turin_Papyrus_Map
The Turin Papyrus is reported to be a 2 meters long mining map
I claim the left hand section ,  is different and unrelated to the
rest , it even looks different ,
I claim I know a site that fits the map on the left in every detail,
and the buildings , roads ,river , hills and valleys  and the 4
features near the centre  , as  marked , are  identifiable still as if
It was drawn very recently
it is NOT in Egypt
It is in South Australia
Yes I know you have heard this sort of claim before
, but keep an open mind and examine the FACTS , they claim there is a
site in Egypt I claim the site is in South Australia
One of us is wrong , the sites can be examined , it fits like a glove
on this end ,  in minute detail
Once both sites are EXAMINED , then laugh at why nobody noticed
before , the far left map is different to the rest , why assume its
the same area as the other sections
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/ba/TurinPapyrus1.jpgh......
I found this object at the site recentlyhttp://mail.google.com/mail/h/9c8k6m41k4i6/?view=att&th=120e0fd6c757d...
, and have spent many decades examining the very unusual features at
this site ,every year growing more and more convinced it is indeed a
VERY large ,  VERY old mine site , predating European settlement by a
VERY long time
I just stumbled ,  on this old Egyptian map and my jaw dropped
I thought it was a joke
I could have drawn it YESTERDAY
Do you know anybody who has examined the mine in Egypt ???
Its a mirror image of the site in South Australia , hard to imagine
such identical natural and man made features being so similar ,
considering its nature who makes the site
There can be no doubt at all on my end , this IS a map of a mine site
in South Australia
This map called the Turin Papyrus the far left panel ,  is indeed in
South Australia
Do laugh too loud , Im 100% sure , but I know you need more evidence ,
that WILL take a while but ,
 WATCH THIS SPACE
kanga
======
You think 3600 years might have changed some of that area? Even if the
map is totally accurate? If so, I have a map of Vinland I can let go
for a really low price.
Depending where it is in South Australia, 3,600 years is but a
twinkling of an eye. The country is harsh and arid. Whatever can blow
away has blown away many thousands of years ago. Depending whereabouts
this mine may be, rainfall is but a light sprinkle ranging up to a
downpour of 18mm/month.
Eric Stevens
Doesn't seem to have stopped, one of the problems with wind erosion,
there is always the next layer.
http://www.dwlbc.sa.gov.au/assets/files/windeinsa.pdf
http://lwa.gov.au/products/pn21484
https://www.allposters.com/View_HighZoomResPop.asp?apn=3194526&imgloc...
But that's the rural land near the coastline. What I had in mind is
the possibility of something more likehttp://farm4.static.flickr.com/3592/3487989850_4f6ec8272d_b.jpg
andhttp://farm4.static.flickr.com/3338/3487169197_b193aa1704_b.jpg
which can be found several hundred  miles to the north.
Nothing tends move without human disturbance.
Eric Stevens
I don't think those are wadis. Those are flat places where the wind
blows anything it wants to. Surely as an student of archaeology you
are aware of places like those where a new artifact has been unburied
by the wind?

The actual Wadi Hammamat

http://egyptology.blogspot.com/2007/08/daily-photo_18.html
Loading Image...
Jack Linthicum
2009-04-30 11:02:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jack Linthicum
Post by Eric Stevens
On Wed, 29 Apr 2009 04:15:32 -0700 (PDT), Jack Linthicum
Post by Jack Linthicum
Post by Eric Stevens
On Tue, 28 Apr 2009 13:24:23 -0700 (PDT), Jack Linthicum
Post by Jack Linthicum
Post by kangarooistan
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turin_Papyrus_Map
The Turin Papyrus is reported to be a 2 meters long mining map
I claim the left hand section ,  is different and unrelated to the
rest , it even looks different ,
I claim I know a site that fits the map on the left in every detail,
and the buildings , roads ,river , hills and valleys  and the 4
features near the centre  , as  marked , are  identifiable still as if
It was drawn very recently
it is NOT in Egypt
It is in South Australia
Yes I know you have heard this sort of claim before
, but keep an open mind and examine the FACTS , they claim there is a
site in Egypt I claim the site is in South Australia
One of us is wrong , the sites can be examined , it fits like a glove
on this end ,  in minute detail
Once both sites are EXAMINED , then laugh at why nobody noticed
before , the far left map is different to the rest , why assume its
the same area as the other sections
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/ba/TurinPapyrus1.jpgh......
I found this object at the site recentlyhttp://mail.google.com/mail/h/9c8k6m41k4i6/?view=att&th=120e0fd6c757d...
, and have spent many decades examining the very unusual features at
this site ,every year growing more and more convinced it is indeed a
VERY large ,  VERY old mine site , predating European settlement by a
VERY long time
I just stumbled ,  on this old Egyptian map and my jaw dropped
I thought it was a joke
I could have drawn it YESTERDAY
Do you know anybody who has examined the mine in Egypt ???
Its a mirror image of the site in South Australia , hard to imagine
such identical natural and man made features being so similar ,
considering its nature who makes the site
There can be no doubt at all on my end , this IS a map of a mine site
in South Australia
This map called the Turin Papyrus the far left panel ,  is indeed in
South Australia
Do laugh too loud , Im 100% sure , but I know you need more evidence ,
that WILL take a while but ,
 WATCH THIS SPACE
kanga
======
You think 3600 years might have changed some of that area? Even if the
map is totally accurate? If so, I have a map of Vinland I can let go
for a really low price.
Depending where it is in South Australia, 3,600 years is but a
twinkling of an eye. The country is harsh and arid. Whatever can blow
away has blown away many thousands of years ago. Depending whereabouts
this mine may be, rainfall is but a light sprinkle ranging up to a
downpour of 18mm/month.
Eric Stevens
Doesn't seem to have stopped, one of the problems with wind erosion,
there is always the next layer.
http://www.dwlbc.sa.gov.au/assets/files/windeinsa.pdf
http://lwa.gov.au/products/pn21484
https://www.allposters.com/View_HighZoomResPop.asp?apn=3194526&imgloc...
But that's the rural land near the coastline. What I had in mind is
the possibility of something more likehttp://farm4.static.flickr.com/3592/3487989850_4f6ec8272d_b.jpg
andhttp://farm4.static.flickr.com/3338/3487169197_b193aa1704_b.jpg
which can be found several hundred  miles to the north.
Nothing tends move without human disturbance.
Eric Stevens
I don't think those are wadis. Those are flat places where the wind
blows anything it wants to. Surely as an student of archaeology you
are aware of places like those where a new artifact has been unburied
by the wind?
The actual Wadi Hammamat
http://egyptology.blogspot.com/2007/08/daily-photo_18.html
And google wadi hammamat mine for many other articles

http://www.eeescience.utoledo.edu/Faculty/Harrell/Egypt/Turin%20Papyrus/Harrell_Papyrus_Map_text.htm

http://www.reshafim.org.il/ad/egypt/timelines/topics/mining.htm

http://www.touregypt.net/featurestories/minesandquarries1.htm
Eric Stevens
2009-04-30 16:38:23 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 30 Apr 2009 02:38:30 -0700 (PDT), Jack Linthicum
Post by Jack Linthicum
Post by Eric Stevens
On Wed, 29 Apr 2009 04:15:32 -0700 (PDT), Jack Linthicum
Post by Jack Linthicum
Post by Eric Stevens
On Tue, 28 Apr 2009 13:24:23 -0700 (PDT), Jack Linthicum
Post by Jack Linthicum
Post by kangarooistan
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turin_Papyrus_Map
The Turin Papyrus is reported to be a 2 meters long mining map
I claim the left hand section ,  is different and unrelated to the
rest , it even looks different ,
I claim I know a site that fits the map on the left in every detail,
and the buildings , roads ,river , hills and valleys  and the 4
features near the centre  , as  marked , are  identifiable still as if
It was drawn very recently
it is NOT in Egypt
It is in South Australia
Yes I know you have heard this sort of claim before
, but keep an open mind and examine the FACTS , they claim there is a
site in Egypt I claim the site is in South Australia
One of us is wrong , the sites can be examined , it fits like a glove
on this end ,  in minute detail
Once both sites are EXAMINED , then laugh at why nobody noticed
before , the far left map is different to the rest , why assume its
the same area as the other sections
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/ba/TurinPapyrus1.jpgh......
I found this object at the site recently
http://mail.google.com/mail/h/9c8k6m41k4i6/?view=att&th=120e0fd6c757d...
Post by Jack Linthicum
Post by Eric Stevens
Post by Jack Linthicum
Post by Eric Stevens
Post by Jack Linthicum
Post by kangarooistan
, and have spent many decades examining the very unusual features at
this site ,every year growing more and more convinced it is indeed a
VERY large ,  VERY old mine site , predating European settlement by a
VERY long time
I just stumbled ,  on this old Egyptian map and my jaw dropped
I thought it was a joke
I could have drawn it YESTERDAY
Do you know anybody who has examined the mine in Egypt ???
Its a mirror image of the site in South Australia , hard to imagine
such identical natural and man made features being so similar ,
considering its nature who makes the site
There can be no doubt at all on my end , this IS a map of a mine site
in South Australia
This map called the Turin Papyrus the far left panel ,  is indeed in
South Australia
Do laugh too loud , Im 100% sure , but I know you need more evidence ,
that WILL take a while but ,
 WATCH THIS SPACE
kanga
======
You think 3600 years might have changed some of that area? Even if the
map is totally accurate? If so, I have a map of Vinland I can let go
for a really low price.
Depending where it is in South Australia, 3,600 years is but a
twinkling of an eye. The country is harsh and arid. Whatever can blow
away has blown away many thousands of years ago. Depending whereabouts
this mine may be, rainfall is but a light sprinkle ranging up to a
downpour of 18mm/month.
Eric Stevens
Doesn't seem to have stopped, one of the problems with wind erosion,
there is always the next layer.
http://www.dwlbc.sa.gov.au/assets/files/windeinsa.pdf
http://lwa.gov.au/products/pn21484
https://www.allposters.com/View_HighZoomResPop.asp?apn=3194526&imgloc...
But that's the rural land near the coastline. What I had in mind is
the possibility of something more like
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3592/3487989850_4f6ec8272d_b.jpg
and http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3338/3487169197_b193aa1704_b.jpg
which can be found several hundred  miles to the north.
Nothing tends move without human disturbance.
Eric Stevens
I don't think those are wadis.
I'm glad of that. I never tried to claim they were.
Post by Jack Linthicum
Those are flat places where the wind
blows anything it wants to.
The physical evidence of that site is that the wind hardly ever blows
anything. The major dust transport mechanism relies on the disturbance
of the road by passing vehicles.
Post by Jack Linthicum
Surely as an student of archaeology you
are aware of places like those where a new artifact has been unburied
by the wind?
I'm sure such places exist but I was trying to make the point that the
transformation of the site by the wind is very slow.
Post by Jack Linthicum
The actual Wadi Hammamat
http://egyptology.blogspot.com/2007/08/daily-photo_18.html
http://cameldive.net/images/wadi-lathi-big.jpg
Compare those photographs with the scenery shown in mine.



Eric Stevens
Jack Linthicum
2009-04-30 16:46:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by Eric Stevens
On Thu, 30 Apr 2009 02:38:30 -0700 (PDT), Jack Linthicum
Post by Jack Linthicum
Post by Eric Stevens
On Wed, 29 Apr 2009 04:15:32 -0700 (PDT), Jack Linthicum
Post by Jack Linthicum
Post by Eric Stevens
On Tue, 28 Apr 2009 13:24:23 -0700 (PDT), Jack Linthicum
Post by Jack Linthicum
Post by kangarooistan
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turin_Papyrus_Map
The Turin Papyrus is reported to be a 2 meters long mining map
I claim the left hand section ,  is different and unrelated to the
rest , it even looks different ,
I claim I know a site that fits the map on the left in every detail,
and the buildings , roads ,river , hills and valleys  and the 4
features near the centre  , as  marked , are  identifiable still as if
It was drawn very recently
it is NOT in Egypt
It is in South Australia
Yes I know you have heard this sort of claim before
, but keep an open mind and examine the FACTS , they claim there is a
site in Egypt I claim the site is in South Australia
One of us is wrong , the sites can be examined , it fits like a glove
on this end ,  in minute detail
Once both sites are EXAMINED , then laugh at why nobody noticed
before , the far left map is different to the rest , why assume its
the same area as the other sections
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/ba/TurinPapyrus1.jpgh......
I found this object at the site recently
http://mail.google.com/mail/h/9c8k6m41k4i6/?view=att&th=120e0fd6c757d...
Post by Jack Linthicum
Post by Eric Stevens
Post by Jack Linthicum
Post by Eric Stevens
Post by Jack Linthicum
Post by kangarooistan
, and have spent many decades examining the very unusual features at
this site ,every year growing more and more convinced it is indeed a
VERY large ,  VERY old mine site , predating European settlement by a
VERY long time
I just stumbled ,  on this old Egyptian map and my jaw dropped
I thought it was a joke
I could have drawn it YESTERDAY
Do you know anybody who has examined the mine in Egypt ???
Its a mirror image of the site in South Australia , hard to imagine
such identical natural and man made features being so similar ,
considering its nature who makes the site
There can be no doubt at all on my end , this IS a map of a mine site
in South Australia
This map called the Turin Papyrus the far left panel ,  is indeed in
South Australia
Do laugh too loud , Im 100% sure , but I know you need more evidence ,
that WILL take a while but ,
 WATCH THIS SPACE
kanga
======
You think 3600 years might have changed some of that area? Even if the
map is totally accurate? If so, I have a map of Vinland I can let go
for a really low price.
Depending where it is in South Australia, 3,600 years is but a
twinkling of an eye. The country is harsh and arid. Whatever can blow
away has blown away many thousands of years ago. Depending whereabouts
this mine may be, rainfall is but a light sprinkle ranging up to a
downpour of 18mm/month.
Eric Stevens
Doesn't seem to have stopped, one of the problems with wind erosion,
there is always the next layer.
http://www.dwlbc.sa.gov.au/assets/files/windeinsa.pdf
http://lwa.gov.au/products/pn21484
https://www.allposters.com/View_HighZoomResPop.asp?apn=3194526&imgloc...
But that's the rural land near the coastline. What I had in mind is
the possibility of something more like
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3592/3487989850_4f6ec8272d_b.jpg
andhttp://farm4.static.flickr.com/3338/3487169197_b193aa1704_b.jpg
which can be found several hundred  miles to the north.
Nothing tends move without human disturbance.
Eric Stevens
I don't think those are wadis.
I'm glad of that. I never tried to claim they were.
Post by Jack Linthicum
Those are flat places where the wind
blows anything it wants to.
The physical evidence of that site is that the wind hardly ever blows
anything. The major dust transport mechanism relies on the disturbance
of the road by passing vehicles.
Post by Jack Linthicum
Surely as an student of archaeology you
are aware of places like those where a new artifact has been unburied
by the wind?
I'm sure such places exist but I was trying to make the point that the
transformation of the site by the wind is very slow.
Post by Jack Linthicum
The actual Wadi Hammamat
http://egyptology.blogspot.com/2007/08/daily-photo_18.html
http://cameldive.net/images/wadi-lathi-big.jpg
Compare those photographs with the scenery shown in mine.
Eric Stevens
Yours show a flat piece of dry land, if there is no wind there I would
extremely surprised. A wadi is a valley, my pictures are of the actual
Wadi Hammamat, with terrain at varying levels. If you can't see the
difference please apply for a vision test.
Eric Stevens
2009-04-30 20:56:12 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 30 Apr 2009 09:46:00 -0700 (PDT), Jack Linthicum
Post by Jack Linthicum
Post by Eric Stevens
On Thu, 30 Apr 2009 02:38:30 -0700 (PDT), Jack Linthicum
Post by Jack Linthicum
Post by Eric Stevens
On Wed, 29 Apr 2009 04:15:32 -0700 (PDT), Jack Linthicum
Post by Jack Linthicum
Post by Eric Stevens
On Tue, 28 Apr 2009 13:24:23 -0700 (PDT), Jack Linthicum
Post by Jack Linthicum
Post by kangarooistan
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turin_Papyrus_Map
The Turin Papyrus is reported to be a 2 meters long mining map
I claim the left hand section ,  is different and unrelated to the
rest , it even looks different ,
I claim I know a site that fits the map on the left in every detail,
and the buildings , roads ,river , hills and valleys  and the 4
features near the centre  , as  marked , are  identifiable still as if
It was drawn very recently
it is NOT in Egypt
It is in South Australia
Yes I know you have heard this sort of claim before
, but keep an open mind and examine the FACTS , they claim there is a
site in Egypt I claim the site is in South Australia
One of us is wrong , the sites can be examined , it fits like a glove
on this end ,  in minute detail
Once both sites are EXAMINED , then laugh at why nobody noticed
before , the far left map is different to the rest , why assume its
the same area as the other sections
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/ba/TurinPapyrus1.jpgh......
I found this object at the site recently
http://mail.google.com/mail/h/9c8k6m41k4i6/?view=att&th=120e0fd6c757d...
Post by Jack Linthicum
Post by Eric Stevens
Post by Jack Linthicum
Post by Eric Stevens
Post by Jack Linthicum
Post by kangarooistan
, and have spent many decades examining the very unusual features at
this site ,every year growing more and more convinced it is indeed a
VERY large ,  VERY old mine site , predating European settlement by a
VERY long time
I just stumbled ,  on this old Egyptian map and my jaw dropped
I thought it was a joke
I could have drawn it YESTERDAY
Do you know anybody who has examined the mine in Egypt ???
Its a mirror image of the site in South Australia , hard to imagine
such identical natural and man made features being so similar ,
considering its nature who makes the site
There can be no doubt at all on my end , this IS a map of a mine site
in South Australia
This map called the Turin Papyrus the far left panel ,  is indeed in
South Australia
Do laugh too loud , Im 100% sure , but I know you need more evidence ,
that WILL take a while but ,
 WATCH THIS SPACE
kanga
======
You think 3600 years might have changed some of that area? Even if the
map is totally accurate? If so, I have a map of Vinland I can let go
for a really low price.
Depending where it is in South Australia, 3,600 years is but a
twinkling of an eye. The country is harsh and arid. Whatever can blow
away has blown away many thousands of years ago. Depending whereabouts
this mine may be, rainfall is but a light sprinkle ranging up to a
downpour of 18mm/month.
Eric Stevens
Doesn't seem to have stopped, one of the problems with wind erosion,
there is always the next layer.
http://www.dwlbc.sa.gov.au/assets/files/windeinsa.pdf
http://lwa.gov.au/products/pn21484
https://www.allposters.com/View_HighZoomResPop.asp?apn=3194526&imgloc...
But that's the rural land near the coastline. What I had in mind is
the possibility of something more like
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3592/3487989850_4f6ec8272d_b.jpg
and http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3338/3487169197_b193aa1704_b.jpg
which can be found several hundred  miles to the north.
Nothing tends move without human disturbance.
Eric Stevens
r
Post by Jack Linthicum
I don't think those are wadis.
I'm glad of that. I never tried to claim they were.
Post by Jack Linthicum
Those are flat places where the wind
blows anything it wants to.
The physical evidence of that site is that the wind hardly ever blows
anything. The major dust transport mechanism relies on the disturbance
of the road by passing vehicles.
Post by Jack Linthicum
Surely as an student of archaeology you
are aware of places like those where a new artifact has been unburied
by the wind?
I'm sure such places exist but I was trying to make the point that the
transformation of the site by the wind is very slow.
Post by Jack Linthicum
The actual Wadi Hammamat
http://egyptology.blogspot.com/2007/08/daily-photo_18.html
http://cameldive.net/images/wadi-lathi-big.jpg
Compare those photographs with the scenery shown in mine.
Eric Stevens
Yours show a flat piece of dry land, if there is no wind there I would
extremely surprised. A wadi is a valley, my pictures are of the actual
Wadi Hammamat, with terrain at varying levels. If you can't see the
difference please apply for a vision test.
You are the person who wants to talk about wadis, not me. As far as I
am concerned wadis have nothing to do with situation.

Are you aware that each time you have replied to me you have mildly
munged the two URLs I gave for my two photographs? I have had to fix
them each time I reply.

You will notice that one of my photographs shows more or less flat
ground to the horizon. The ground is quite thickly covered with flakes
of gypsum. If there had been significant wind erosion you would expect
to find the larger pices (at least) perched on little islands of
uneroded soil. In fact there is no evidence of undercutting around the
stones and this, in itself, points to wind erosion being of very minor
significance. That is the point I was trying to make.

What is not apparent in the photograph is that ground is randomly
covered with a plant with the appearance of lichen. I don't think that
this could establish itself if the soil was always being blown away.

Rainfall is mostly in the form of dew, although every few years there
is a genuine rain shower.



Eric Stevens
Jack Linthicum
2009-04-30 21:05:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by Eric Stevens
On Thu, 30 Apr 2009 09:46:00 -0700 (PDT), Jack Linthicum
Post by Jack Linthicum
Post by Eric Stevens
On Thu, 30 Apr 2009 02:38:30 -0700 (PDT), Jack Linthicum
Post by Jack Linthicum
Post by Eric Stevens
On Wed, 29 Apr 2009 04:15:32 -0700 (PDT), Jack Linthicum
Post by Jack Linthicum
Post by Eric Stevens
On Tue, 28 Apr 2009 13:24:23 -0700 (PDT), Jack Linthicum
Post by Jack Linthicum
Post by kangarooistan
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turin_Papyrus_Map
The Turin Papyrus is reported to be a 2 meters long mining map
I claim the left hand section ,  is different and unrelated to the
rest , it even looks different ,
I claim I know a site that fits the map on the left in every detail,
and the buildings , roads ,river , hills and valleys  and the 4
features near the centre  , as  marked , are  identifiable still as if
It was drawn very recently
it is NOT in Egypt
It is in South Australia
Yes I know you have heard this sort of claim before
, but keep an open mind and examine the FACTS , they claim there is a
site in Egypt I claim the site is in South Australia
One of us is wrong , the sites can be examined , it fits like a glove
on this end ,  in minute detail
Once both sites are EXAMINED , then laugh at why nobody noticed
before , the far left map is different to the rest , why assume its
the same area as the other sections
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/ba/TurinPapyrus1.jpgh......
I found this object at the site recently
http://mail.google.com/mail/h/9c8k6m41k4i6/?view=att&th=120e0fd6c757d...
Post by Jack Linthicum
Post by Eric Stevens
Post by Jack Linthicum
Post by Eric Stevens
Post by Jack Linthicum
Post by kangarooistan
, and have spent many decades examining the very unusual features at
this site ,every year growing more and more convinced it is indeed a
VERY large ,  VERY old mine site , predating European settlement by a
VERY long time
I just stumbled ,  on this old Egyptian map and my jaw dropped
I thought it was a joke
I could have drawn it YESTERDAY
Do you know anybody who has examined the mine in Egypt ???
Its a mirror image of the site in South Australia , hard to imagine
such identical natural and man made features being so similar ,
considering its nature who makes the site
There can be no doubt at all on my end , this IS a map of a mine site
in South Australia
This map called the Turin Papyrus the far left panel ,  is indeed in
South Australia
Do laugh too loud , Im 100% sure , but I know you need more evidence ,
that WILL take a while but ,
 WATCH THIS SPACE
kanga
======
You think 3600 years might have changed some of that area? Even if the
map is totally accurate? If so, I have a map of Vinland I can let go
for a really low price.
Depending where it is in South Australia, 3,600 years is but a
twinkling of an eye. The country is harsh and arid. Whatever can blow
away has blown away many thousands of years ago. Depending whereabouts
this mine may be, rainfall is but a light sprinkle ranging up to a
downpour of 18mm/month.
Eric Stevens
Doesn't seem to have stopped, one of the problems with wind erosion,
there is always the next layer.
http://www.dwlbc.sa.gov.au/assets/files/windeinsa.pdf
http://lwa.gov.au/products/pn21484
https://www.allposters.com/View_HighZoomResPop.asp?apn=3194526&imgloc...
But that's the rural land near the coastline. What I had in mind is
the possibility of something more like
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3592/3487989850_4f6ec8272d_b.jpg
andhttp://farm4.static.flickr.com/3338/3487169197_b193aa1704_b.jpg
which can be found several hundred  miles to the north.
Nothing tends move without human disturbance.
Eric Stevens
r
Post by Jack Linthicum
I don't think those are wadis.
I'm glad of that. I never tried to claim they were.
Post by Jack Linthicum
Those are flat places where the wind
blows anything it wants to.
The physical evidence of that site is that the wind hardly ever blows
anything. The major dust transport mechanism relies on the disturbance
of the road by passing vehicles.
Post by Jack Linthicum
Surely as an student of archaeology you
are aware of places like those where a new artifact has been unburied
by the wind?
I'm sure such places exist but I was trying to make the point that the
transformation of the site by the wind is very slow.
Post by Jack Linthicum
The actual Wadi Hammamat
http://egyptology.blogspot.com/2007/08/daily-photo_18.html
http://cameldive.net/images/wadi-lathi-big.jpg
Compare those photographs with the scenery shown in mine.
Eric Stevens
Yours show a flat piece of dry land, if there is no wind there I would
extremely surprised. A wadi is a valley, my pictures are of the actual
Wadi Hammamat, with terrain at varying levels. If you can't see the
difference please apply for a vision test.
You are the person who wants to talk about wadis, not me. As far as I
am concerned wadis have nothing to do with situation.
Are you aware that each time you have replied to me you have mildly
munged the two URLs I gave for my two photographs? I have had to fix
them each time I reply.
You will notice that one of my photographs shows more or less flat
ground to the horizon. The ground is quite thickly covered with flakes
of gypsum. If there had been significant wind erosion you would expect
to find the larger pices (at least) perched on little islands of
uneroded soil. In fact there is no evidence of undercutting around the
stones and this, in itself, points to wind erosion being of very minor
significance. That is the point I was trying to make.
What is not apparent in the photograph is that ground is randomly
covered with a plant with the appearance of lichen. I don't think that
this could establish itself if the soil was always being blown away.
Rainfall is mostly in the form of dew, although every few years there
is a genuine rain shower.
Eric Stevens
I talk about a Wadi because this map shows a Wadi in the Eleventh
Century BC. Particularly the gold mine at Bir Umm Fawakhir, the
subject of the original post.

http://www.tms.org/pubs/journals/JOM/9703/Meyer-9703.html
kangarooistan
2009-04-30 22:37:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jack Linthicum
Post by Eric Stevens
On Thu, 30 Apr 2009 09:46:00 -0700 (PDT), Jack Linthicum
Post by Jack Linthicum
Post by Eric Stevens
On Thu, 30 Apr 2009 02:38:30 -0700 (PDT), Jack Linthicum
Post by Jack Linthicum
Post by Eric Stevens
On Wed, 29 Apr 2009 04:15:32 -0700 (PDT), Jack Linthicum
Post by Jack Linthicum
Post by Eric Stevens
On Tue, 28 Apr 2009 13:24:23 -0700 (PDT), Jack Linthicum
Post by Jack Linthicum
Post by kangarooistan
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turin_Papyrus_Map
The Turin Papyrus is reported to be a 2 meters long mining map
I claim the left hand section ,  is different and unrelated to the
rest , it even looks different ,
I claim I know a site that fits the map on the left in every detail,
and the buildings , roads ,river , hills and valleys  and the 4
features near the centre  , as  marked , are  identifiable still as if
It was drawn very recently
it is NOT in Egypt
It is in South Australia
Yes I know you have heard this sort of claim before
, but keep an open mind and examine the FACTS , they claim there is a
site in Egypt I claim the site is in South Australia
One of us is wrong , the sites can be examined , it fits like a glove
on this end ,  in minute detail
Once both sites are EXAMINED , then laugh at why nobody noticed
before , the far left map is different to the rest , why assume its
the same area as the other sections
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/ba/TurinPapyrus1.jpgh......
I found this object at the site recently
http://mail.google.com/mail/h/9c8k6m41k4i6/?view=att&th=120e0fd6c757d...
Post by Jack Linthicum
Post by Eric Stevens
Post by Jack Linthicum
Post by Eric Stevens
Post by Jack Linthicum
Post by kangarooistan
, and have spent many decades examining the very unusual features at
this site ,every year growing more and more convinced it is indeed a
VERY large ,  VERY old mine site , predating European settlement by a
VERY long time
I just stumbled ,  on this old Egyptian map and my jaw dropped
I thought it was a joke
I could have drawn it YESTERDAY
Do you know anybody who has examined the mine in Egypt ???
Its a mirror image of the site in South Australia , hard to imagine
such identical natural and man made features being so similar ,
considering its nature who makes the site
There can be no doubt at all on my end , this IS a map of a mine site
in South Australia
This map called the Turin Papyrus the far left panel ,  is indeed in
South Australia
Do laugh too loud , Im 100% sure , but I know you need more evidence ,
that WILL take a while but ,
 WATCH THIS SPACE
kanga
======
You think 3600 years might have changed some of that area? Even if the
map is totally accurate? If so, I have a map of Vinland I can let go
for a really low price.
Depending where it is in South Australia, 3,600 years is but a
twinkling of an eye. The country is harsh and arid. Whatever can blow
away has blown away many thousands of years ago. Depending whereabouts
this mine may be, rainfall is but a light sprinkle ranging up to a
downpour of 18mm/month.
Eric Stevens
Doesn't seem to have stopped, one of the problems with wind erosion,
there is always the next layer.
http://www.dwlbc.sa.gov.au/assets/files/windeinsa.pdf
http://lwa.gov.au/products/pn21484
https://www.allposters.com/View_HighZoomResPop.asp?apn=3194526&imgloc...
But that's the rural land near the coastline. What I had in mind is
the possibility of something more like
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3592/3487989850_4f6ec8272d_b.jpg
andhttp://farm4.static.flickr.com/3338/3487169197_b193aa1704_b.jpg
which can be found several hundred  miles to the north.
Nothing tends move without human disturbance.
Eric Stevens
r
Post by Jack Linthicum
I don't think those are wadis.
I'm glad of that. I never tried to claim they were.
Post by Jack Linthicum
Those are flat places where the wind
blows anything it wants to.
The physical evidence of that site is that the wind hardly ever blows
anything. The major dust transport mechanism relies on the disturbance
of the road by passing vehicles.
Post by Jack Linthicum
Surely as an student of archaeology you
are aware of places like those where a new artifact has been unburied
by the wind?
I'm sure such places exist but I was trying to make the point that the
transformation of the site by the wind is very slow.
Post by Jack Linthicum
The actual Wadi Hammamat
http://egyptology.blogspot.com/2007/08/daily-photo_18.html
http://cameldive.net/images/wadi-lathi-big.jpg
Compare those photographs with the scenery shown in mine.
Eric Stevens
Yours show a flat piece of dry land, if there is no wind there I would
extremely surprised. A wadi is a valley, my pictures are of the actual
Wadi Hammamat, with terrain at varying levels. If you can't see the
difference please apply for a vision test.
You are the person who wants to talk about wadis, not me. As far as I
am concerned wadis have nothing to do with situation.
Are you aware that each time you have replied to me you have mildly
munged the two URLs I gave for my two photographs? I have had to fix
them each time I reply.
You will notice that one of my photographs shows more or less flat
ground to the horizon. The ground is quite thickly covered with flakes
of gypsum. If there had been significant wind erosion you would expect
to find the larger pices (at least) perched on little islands of
uneroded soil. In fact there is no evidence of undercutting around the
stones and this, in itself, points to wind erosion being of very minor
significance. That is the point I was trying to make.
What is not apparent in the photograph is that ground is randomly
covered with a plant with the appearance of lichen. I don't think that
this could establish itself if the soil was always being blown away.
Rainfall is mostly in the form of dew, although every few years there
is a genuine rain shower.
Eric Stevens
I talk about a Wadi because this map shows a Wadi in the Eleventh
Century BC. Particularly the gold mine at Bir Umm Fawakhir, the
subject of the original post.
http://www.tms.org/pubs/journals/JOM/9703/Meyer-9703.html
Can anybody show any evidence of anywhere in Egypt they can find
evidence of the gold mine described in the map fragments AB C and
D , known as the " gold mine "

there is evidence of mining at Bir Umm Fawakhir , but none from the
period of the map 3160 years ago , it is agreed ALL the stuff seen at
Bir Umm Fawakir

Unlike the mountains of hard evidence of the mining in the stone
quarries mentioned at the near by mine / quarries that make up the
papyrus fragments E onwards , its visible every where, while the gold
mine is simply not there

I hope to get SBS and Aljazeera to show BOTH sites , and its easy to
see , once its pointed out , you need not really get out the car to
identify the natural features and the mining infrastructure "site
remnants" can be identified exactly where it was on the map ,
granted they are more basic than you may imagine , it was a mine not a
palace or temple , and it was at the edge of the world in its day ,
its not elaborate , and the site needs to be interpreted with this
in mind , but each phase of the mines activities is visible , as
expected , where expected , and the distance to each feature is
EXACTLY as described , in the map facing the EXACT right direction ,
and the sea is in the RIGHT direction unlike the mine in Egypt they
claim is the " gold mine ' of Turin papyrus with NOTHING what so ever
to back THEIR claim

A few minutes with a good camera crew at each site , will clear it up
real quick

Then we can compare the evidence for both sites

I need no more evidence , I accept my claims sound crazy , but Im in
no doubt of what I can see measure and touch

kanga
=====

There is no evidence that the Turin Papyrus " gold mine " was in
Egypt , not a single tiny piece of evidence exists to prove the GOLD
mine described in the Turin Papyrus fragments A ,B ,C or D ,
describes a mine in Egypt

the fragments after that DO have heaps of evidence that clearly exists
and can be found in Egypt , but there is nothing that points to the
site at Bir Umm Fawakhir in the fragments A B C or D , and NOTHING on
the ground in Egypt , or in any museum anywhere that cab tie the
Turin Papyrus "gold mine ' to any where , except the site in south
Australia where EVERY natural and every man made feature in the map
fits and can be seen with the naked eye even without digging , after
3160 years even today without leaving your car seat you can
recognize the features exactly as marked in the Turin map

While EVERY natural feature and the remains of every man made
feature on the map , on the Turin Papyrus " gold mine " map , can be
seen with the naked eye , in SOUTH AUSTRALIA , experts accept the
Egyptian site with NIL evidence at Bir Umm Fawakkir
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The map even describes the mine as being a very very very long way
from the bekhen-stone quarries in the Wadi Hammamat , in fragments E
onward of the Turin Papyrus clearly is in EGYPT and can be SEEN to be
so

As the details in South Australia equally can CLEARLY be identified as
matching the Turin Papyrus CLEARLY

SBS TV or Aljazeera may like to cover the topic as news , and show
both site for all to see what I mean , I wont deal with other news

It appears somebody removed the number of Khat to the gold
mine , , but it was repeated 3 times , indicating it was a very very
very long way , IMHO , and to hide this " problem" somebody though
to remove the number of khet , so as more easily to tie it into the
local area and perhaps ? , to make it ' fit " in with the the other
fragments presented as one scroll ??

note 17 in pro Harrell research says
.-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
17 distance from the gold-working settlement to the mountain
of bekheny,…khet

[this text is repeated three times, apparently for emphasis; the
distance in units of khet is missing]3,4
http://www.eeescience.utoledo.edu/Faculty/Harrell/Egypt/Turin%20Papyrus/Harrell_Papyrus_Map_table-1.htm
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

We dont know how many khat = 100 cubits the distance was , but seems
it was very very very many , and the site claimed by the main
stream is very close , even though there is no evidence in the
scroll or on the ground that says its in Egypt, and the highly
respected eye witness author of the scroll ,and a well respected
learned man who made the map would have known every town and the
distance , he does not name a single thing that ties the map to
anything in his native Egypt in the said map

Absence of evidence may not be evidence , but its very surprising ,
the scholarly maps maker did not include a single thing that places
the " gold mine ' in shown in the beautiful Papyrus in Egypt

In this case it may in fact be evidence , that it may indeed be a
mine that is NOT in Egypt , as at the time Phonetician sailors and
traders sailed the globe in search of gold , and there are references
of Hapshepsuts " green gold of / from Emu " , from that era , and EMU
is a word of Arabic origins meaning big bird , STILL according to
dictionaries , and the map says they mine a mix of gold and silver
that is " green gold "

Why do we doubt the " Green gold from Emu " was not a direct reference
to this mine , that was in that ear , mining green gold, = 25%to 50%
silver as per the Turin map
Loading Image...

Arabic origin of the word Emu seem to add weight
http://translate.reference.com/browse/emu?olang=all&

The ancient tool that helped unlock the secret was found at the site
marked as a refinery of gold
http://mail.google.com/mail/h/j34ur7rwpv3m/?view=att&th=120e0fd6c757ddc7&attid=0.1&disp=inline&zw

This site covers the Turin papyrus very well and I can not see any
reason to exclude the South Australian site

OR to even consider the site presently thought to be the mine site in
Egypt , nothing said in this scholarly site actually claims any real
evidence atall for the site presently accepted ,NIL evidence to
support the present Egypt site exists ANYWHERE
http://www.eeescience.utoledo.edu/Faculty/Harrell/Egypt/Turin%20Papyrus/Harrell_Papyrus_Map_text.htm
http://www.google.com.au/search?client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-US%3Aofficial&channel=s&hl=en&q=Hapshepsut+green+gold+emu&meta=&btnG=Google+Search



kanga
=====
WHERE is the evidence from 3160 years ago ??


No systematic archaeological survey or excavations had been carried
out at Bir Umm Fawakhir prior to 1992, but the site is mentioned in
quite a few travelers' accounts.

Most of them note the gold mines, wells, hundreds of "Roman" huts,
and parts of the site now lost, such as the Ptolemaic temple. One of
the early visitors was Arthur E. P. Weigall, who published an
excellent account in Travels in the Upper Egyptian Deserts (1909). He
left the most complete description of the Ptolemaic temple as well as
the only known copy of its inscriptions. Couyat (1910) called Bir Umm
Fawakhir "une véritable ville," but his most interesting contribution
was a report of a papyrus, now lost, and two statues found in the
quarries. Battered, headless, and almost armless, they are nonetheless
in a classical style and were identified by Couyat as a nude Apollo
and a semi-draped Venus

. In the wake of renewed mining activity in 1940 and 1941, Guéraud
published sixty or so ostraca found in the mining debris along with
ancient grinding stones, pottery vessels, lamps, beads, and a few
coins. Paleographically dated to the late first and second centuries
A.D., seven ostraca have Latin writing and the rest Greek. Almost all
of them have to do with military personnel in the Eastern Desert, and
usually with provisions sent or desired. Zitterkopf and Sidebotham
(1989) in their detailed survey of the Coptos to Quseir route were the
first, however, to publish a Byzantine date for the sherds and ancient
settlement at Bir Umm Fawakhir.

The published accounts of the site are fragmentary and sometimes
conflicting, and without good maps either of the region or of the site
itself it is difficult to resolve the problems. Some parts of the site
have been destroyed, such as the Ptolemaic temple, and others remain
unpublished, such as the artifacts found at the same time as the
ostraca. Perhaps most seriously, the main body of ruins was mistakenly
called Roman for at least 150 years.

The misidentification may have been due partly to the difficulty of
visiting the site, and partly to the long-held belief that the
Byzantine presence in the desert was minimal or non-existent.
Alexandria indeed dominated Egypt politically, economically,
culturally, and religiously, but there are scattered references to
Clysma (Suez), Antinoopolis, and Myos Hormos (north of Bir Umm
Fawakhir), and the ancient port at Berenice to the south. In light of
new evidence from sites such as Abu Sha'ar, Wadi Nakheil, Bir Umm
Fawakhir, and what can be gleaned from old accounts concerning
Berenice, the idea of Byzantine neglect of the Eastern Desert needs to
be re-examined.

As part of the initial work, the project carried out a brief study of
the local geology, which explains a great deal about the layout of Bir
Umm Fawakhir and about its reasons for existence. The only resources
are mineral; the site lies in the middle of a hyperarid desert where
nothing larger than camel thorn grows. The Fawakhir granite to the
east is the aquifer; the water is carried in fine cracks in the rock
until it meets the dense ultramafic rocks at the western end of the
area, and the wells are in fact dug near the contact zone. The pinkish
granite was quarried at one time, probably in the Roman period.
Extensively worked gold mines follow the quartz veins in the Fawakhir
granite. The main group of ruins lies in a narrow wadi eroded in the
granite; the steep sides serve as a boundary and almost as a town
wall. The site's southeastern end is defined by a high dike of tough
felsite rock with a natural gate in it.

Pre-Byzantine remains at Bir Umm Fawakhir are limited.

From the pharaonic period we have, perhaps, a few sherds and above
all, the Turin Papyrus.

The latter may be read as a map drawn up in the Twentieth Dynasty to
show the bekhen-stone quarries in the Wadi Hammamat and the gold mines
a little farther to the east at Bir Umm Fawakhir.

Evidence for a Ptolemaic presence is limited to the now lost temple
Ptolemy III Euergetes, though we have many travelers' descriptions of
it. Our attempts to locate the site of the temple or any surviving
blocks have not yet succeeded.
http://oi.uchicago.edu/research/pubs/ar/91-92/fawakhir.html

Mal Fabian

Mount Barker
South Australia
No interviews except by
SBS or Aljazeera
Eric Stevens
2009-04-30 22:56:48 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 30 Apr 2009 14:05:57 -0700 (PDT), Jack Linthicum
Post by Jack Linthicum
Post by Eric Stevens
On Thu, 30 Apr 2009 09:46:00 -0700 (PDT), Jack Linthicum
Post by Jack Linthicum
Post by Eric Stevens
On Thu, 30 Apr 2009 02:38:30 -0700 (PDT), Jack Linthicum
Post by Jack Linthicum
Post by Eric Stevens
On Wed, 29 Apr 2009 04:15:32 -0700 (PDT), Jack Linthicum
Post by Jack Linthicum
Post by Eric Stevens
On Tue, 28 Apr 2009 13:24:23 -0700 (PDT), Jack Linthicum
Post by Jack Linthicum
Post by kangarooistan
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turin_Papyrus_Map
The Turin Papyrus is reported to be a 2 meters long mining map
I claim the left hand section ,  is different and unrelated to the
rest , it even looks different ,
I claim I know a site that fits the map on the left in every detail,
and the buildings , roads ,river , hills and valleys  and the 4
features near the centre  , as  marked , are  identifiable still as if
It was drawn very recently
it is NOT in Egypt
It is in South Australia
Yes I know you have heard this sort of claim before
, but keep an open mind and examine the FACTS , they claim there is a
site in Egypt I claim the site is in South Australia
One of us is wrong , the sites can be examined , it fits like a glove
on this end ,  in minute detail
Once both sites are EXAMINED , then laugh at why nobody noticed
before , the far left map is different to the rest , why assume its
the same area as the other sections
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/ba/TurinPapyrus1.jpgh......
I found this object at the site recently
http://mail.google.com/mail/h/9c8k6m41k4i6/?view=att&th=120e0fd6c757d...
Post by Jack Linthicum
Post by Eric Stevens
Post by Jack Linthicum
Post by Eric Stevens
Post by Jack Linthicum
Post by kangarooistan
, and have spent many decades examining the very unusual features at
this site ,every year growing more and more convinced it is indeed a
VERY large ,  VERY old mine site , predating European settlement by a
VERY long time
I just stumbled ,  on this old Egyptian map and my jaw dropped
I thought it was a joke
I could have drawn it YESTERDAY
Do you know anybody who has examined the mine in Egypt ???
Its a mirror image of the site in South Australia , hard to imagine
such identical natural and man made features being so similar ,
considering its nature who makes the site
There can be no doubt at all on my end , this IS a map of a mine site
in South Australia
This map called the Turin Papyrus the far left panel ,  is indeed in
South Australia
Do laugh too loud , Im 100% sure , but I know you need more evidence ,
that WILL take a while but ,
 WATCH THIS SPACE
kanga
======
You think 3600 years might have changed some of that area? Even if the
map is totally accurate? If so, I have a map of Vinland I can let go
for a really low price.
Depending where it is in South Australia, 3,600 years is but a
twinkling of an eye. The country is harsh and arid. Whatever can blow
away has blown away many thousands of years ago. Depending whereabouts
this mine may be, rainfall is but a light sprinkle ranging up to a
downpour of 18mm/month.
Eric Stevens
Doesn't seem to have stopped, one of the problems with wind erosion,
there is always the next layer.
http://www.dwlbc.sa.gov.au/assets/files/windeinsa.pdf
http://lwa.gov.au/products/pn21484
https://www.allposters.com/View_HighZoomResPop.asp?apn=3194526&imgloc...
But that's the rural land near the coastline. What I had in mind is
the possibility of something more like
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3592/3487989850_4f6ec8272d_b.jpg
andhttp://farm4.static.flickr.com/3338/3487169197_b193aa1704_b.jpg
which can be found several hundred  miles to the north.
Nothing tends move without human disturbance.
Eric Stevens
r
Post by Jack Linthicum
I don't think those are wadis.
I'm glad of that. I never tried to claim they were.
Post by Jack Linthicum
Those are flat places where the wind
blows anything it wants to.
The physical evidence of that site is that the wind hardly ever blows
anything. The major dust transport mechanism relies on the disturbance
of the road by passing vehicles.
Post by Jack Linthicum
Surely as an student of archaeology you
are aware of places like those where a new artifact has been unburied
by the wind?
I'm sure such places exist but I was trying to make the point that the
transformation of the site by the wind is very slow.
Post by Jack Linthicum
The actual Wadi Hammamat
http://egyptology.blogspot.com/2007/08/daily-photo_18.html
http://cameldive.net/images/wadi-lathi-big.jpg
Compare those photographs with the scenery shown in mine.
Eric Stevens
Yours show a flat piece of dry land, if there is no wind there I would
extremely surprised. A wadi is a valley, my pictures are of the actual
Wadi Hammamat, with terrain at varying levels. If you can't see the
difference please apply for a vision test.
You are the person who wants to talk about wadis, not me. As far as I
am concerned wadis have nothing to do with situation.
Are you aware that each time you have replied to me you have mildly
munged the two URLs I gave for my two photographs? I have had to fix
them each time I reply.
You will notice that one of my photographs shows more or less flat
ground to the horizon. The ground is quite thickly covered with flakes
of gypsum. If there had been significant wind erosion you would expect
to find the larger pices (at least) perched on little islands of
uneroded soil. In fact there is no evidence of undercutting around the
stones and this, in itself, points to wind erosion being of very minor
significance. That is the point I was trying to make.
What is not apparent in the photograph is that ground is randomly
covered with a plant with the appearance of lichen. I don't think that
this could establish itself if the soil was always being blown away.
Rainfall is mostly in the form of dew, although every few years there
is a genuine rain shower.
Eric Stevens
I talk about a Wadi because this map shows a Wadi in the Eleventh
Century BC. Particularly the gold mine at Bir Umm Fawakhir, the
subject of the original post.
http://www.tms.org/pubs/journals/JOM/9703/Meyer-9703.html
In my article Message-ID: <***@4ax.com>
I responded to your statement

"You think 3600 years might have changed some of that area? Even if
the map is totally accurate? If so, I have a map of Vinland I can
let go for a really low price."

... by writing

"Depending where it is in South Australia, 3,600 years is but a
twinkling of an eye. The country is harsh and arid. Whatever can
blow away has blown away many thousands of years ago. Depending
whereabouts this mine may be, rainfall is but a light sprinkle
ranging up to a downpour of 18mm/month."

That's the point I've _always_ been addressing, the very slow rate of
change to be found to be found in parts of Australia. I have
absolutely no idea of where Kangarooistan thinks his mine might be
located so I can only talk in generalities. I certainly haven't been
trying to identify the possible location of the mine. My point was,
and still is, that in some parts of Australia, 3600 years with very
little change is not at all surprising.



Eric Stevens
kangarooistan
2009-05-01 04:17:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by Eric Stevens
On Thu, 30 Apr 2009 14:05:57 -0700 (PDT), Jack Linthicum
Post by Jack Linthicum
Post by Eric Stevens
On Thu, 30 Apr 2009 09:46:00 -0700 (PDT), Jack Linthicum
Post by Jack Linthicum
Post by Eric Stevens
On Thu, 30 Apr 2009 02:38:30 -0700 (PDT), Jack Linthicum
Post by Jack Linthicum
Post by Eric Stevens
On Wed, 29 Apr 2009 04:15:32 -0700 (PDT), Jack Linthicum
Post by Jack Linthicum
Post by Eric Stevens
On Tue, 28 Apr 2009 13:24:23 -0700 (PDT), Jack Linthicum
Post by Jack Linthicum
Post by kangarooistan
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turin_Papyrus_Map
The Turin Papyrus is reported to be a 2 meters long mining map
I claim the left hand section ,  is different and unrelated to the
rest , it even looks different ,
I claim I know a site that fits the map on the left in every detail,
and the buildings , roads ,river , hills and valleys  and the 4
features near the centre  , as  marked , are  identifiable still as if
It was drawn very recently
it is NOT in Egypt
It is in South Australia
Yes I know you have heard this sort of claim before
, but keep an open mind and examine the FACTS , they claim there is a
site in Egypt I claim the site is in South Australia
One of us is wrong , the sites can be examined , it fits like a glove
on this end ,  in minute detail
Once both sites are EXAMINED , then laugh at why nobody noticed
before , the far left map is different to the rest , why assume its
the same area as the other sections
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/ba/TurinPapyrus1.jpgh......
I found this object at the site recently
http://mail.google.com/mail/h/9c8k6m41k4i6/?view=att&th=120e0fd6c757d...
Post by Jack Linthicum
Post by Eric Stevens
Post by Jack Linthicum
Post by Eric Stevens
Post by Jack Linthicum
Post by kangarooistan
, and have spent many decades examining the very unusual features at
this site ,every year growing more and more convinced it is indeed a
VERY large ,  VERY old mine site , predating European settlement by a
VERY long time
I just stumbled ,  on this old Egyptian map and my jaw dropped
I thought it was a joke
I could have drawn it YESTERDAY
Do you know anybody who has examined the mine in Egypt ???
Its a mirror image of the site in South Australia , hard to imagine
such identical natural and man made features being so similar ,
considering its nature who makes the site
There can be no doubt at all on my end , this IS a map of a mine site
in South Australia
This map called the Turin Papyrus the far left panel ,  is indeed in
South Australia
Do laugh too loud , Im 100% sure , but I know you need more evidence ,
that WILL take a while but ,
 WATCH THIS SPACE
kanga
======
You think 3600 years might have changed some of that area? Even if the
map is totally accurate? If so, I have a map of Vinland I can let go
for a really low price.
Depending where it is in South Australia, 3,600 years is but a
twinkling of an eye. The country is harsh and arid. Whatever can blow
away has blown away many thousands of years ago. Depending whereabouts
this mine may be, rainfall is but a light sprinkle ranging up to a
downpour of 18mm/month.
Eric Stevens
Doesn't seem to have stopped, one of the problems with wind erosion,
there is always the next layer.
http://www.dwlbc.sa.gov.au/assets/files/windeinsa.pdf
http://lwa.gov.au/products/pn21484
https://www.allposters.com/View_HighZoomResPop.asp?apn=3194526&imgloc...
But that's the rural land near the coastline. What I had in mind is
the possibility of something more like
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3592/3487989850_4f6ec8272d_b.jpg
andhttp://farm4.static.flickr.com/3338/3487169197_b193aa1704_b.jpg
which can be found several hundred  miles to the north.
Nothing tends move without human disturbance.
Eric Stevens
r
Post by Jack Linthicum
I don't think those are wadis.
I'm glad of that. I never tried to claim they were.
Post by Jack Linthicum
Those are flat places where the wind
blows anything it wants to.
The physical evidence of that site is that the wind hardly ever blows
anything. The major dust transport mechanism relies on the disturbance
of the road by passing vehicles.
Post by Jack Linthicum
Surely as an student of archaeology you
are aware of places like those where a new artifact has been unburied
by the wind?
I'm sure such places exist but I was trying to make the point that the
transformation of the site by the wind is very slow.
Post by Jack Linthicum
The actual Wadi Hammamat
http://egyptology.blogspot.com/2007/08/daily-photo_18.html
http://cameldive.net/images/wadi-lathi-big.jpg
Compare those photographs with the scenery shown in mine.
Eric Stevens
Yours show a flat piece of dry land, if there is no wind there I would
extremely surprised. A wadi is a valley, my pictures are of the actual
Wadi Hammamat, with terrain at varying levels. If you can't see the
difference please apply for a vision test.
You are the person who wants to talk about wadis, not me. As far as I
am concerned wadis have nothing to do with situation.
Are you aware that each time you have replied to me you have mildly
munged the two URLs I gave for my two photographs? I have had to fix
them each time I reply.
You will notice that one of my photographs shows more or less flat
ground to the horizon. The ground is quite thickly covered with flakes
of gypsum. If there had been significant wind erosion you would expect
to find the larger pices (at least) perched on little islands of
uneroded soil. In fact there is no evidence of undercutting around the
stones and this, in itself, points to wind erosion being of very minor
significance. That is the point I was trying to make.
What is not apparent in the photograph is that ground is randomly
covered with a plant with the appearance of lichen. I don't think that
this could establish itself if the soil was always being blown away.
Rainfall is mostly in the form of dew, although every few years there
is a genuine rain shower.
Eric Stevens
I talk about a Wadi because this map shows a Wadi in the Eleventh
Century BC. Particularly the gold mine at Bir Umm Fawakhir, the
subject of the original post.
http://www.tms.org/pubs/journals/JOM/9703/Meyer-9703.html
I responded to your statement
  "You think 3600 years might have changed some of that area? Even if
   the map is totally accurate? If so, I have a map of Vinland I can
   let go for a really low price."
... by writing
   "Depending where it is in South Australia, 3,600 years is but a
    twinkling of an eye. The country is harsh and arid. Whatever can
    blow away has blown away many thousands of years ago. Depending
    whereabouts this mine may be, rainfall is but a light sprinkle
    ranging up to a downpour of 18mm/month."
That's the point I've _always_ been addressing, the very slow rate of
change to be found to be found in parts of Australia. I have
absolutely no idea of where Kangarooistan thinks his mine might be
located so I can only talk in generalities. I certainly haven't been
trying to identify the possible location of the mine. My point was,
and still is, that in some parts of Australia, 3600 years with very
little change is not at all surprising.
Eric Stevens
Meteor strikes a million yearsago after erosion of 1000 meters of soil
can still beidentified

Most human activity will leave evidence if you look and adjust the
location it can be seen in all manner of artifacts

perhaps pottery , perhaps language , perhaps names of places , seeds ,
insects , myths , transfer of skills , placement of materials like
stone soil clay , cultural practice , names of things they share in
common , tools

Like a jigsaw the pieces all should join together neatly , to
recreate the past as you go back further , it is possible to build
the evidence , but its not as easy as simply digging up a town with
nice pile of evidence that many think happens

there are no artifacts at the site in Egypt that pre date roman
occupation yet they claim its 3160 years old simply because of the
papyrus refers to a mine so this looks like a gold mine so it must be
the one in the Turin manuscript/ map

There is an over whelming case building for the South australian mine
site

No point me trying to do a great deal online until its on film so
others can SEE the evidence

Im working on it

kanga
=====

kanga
======
s***@neuf.fr
2009-05-04 20:42:35 UTC
Permalink
On 1 mai, 06:17, kangarooistan <***@gmail.com> wrote:

Sorry for not replying sooner, dear Mr Kanga, but I was thinking
about the best way for you, NOT TO BE ROBBED OF YOUR DISCOVERY.
Well do not trust Australian Archeologists, that 's for a start ! ...
they will just try to put you aside as soon as possible and call your
discovery Theirs §

Your best bet as long as you wish to get Archaeologist involved would
be with Italian & Greek Archaeologists. The Italian particularly,
being a very young nation, have a tradition of freedom of thinking
linked to the independance of former Towns from one another ! Turino,
Florence or even Modena Universities would be your best bet in my
opinion. You could as well try the Swiss University of Geneva which is
of high repute, but forget Oxford by all means.
What Evans did to the extraordinary discovery of Glozel was to team
with l'Abbé Breuil to grab the credit & when the real discoverer Emile
Fradin, who was ploughing his field when a cow stepped into the pre-
historic site, refused to step down, they did all everything to ruin
the authenticity of that most amazing discovery
http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glozel
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x6mepv_mysteres-glozel_tech
http://video.google.fr/videosearch?q=Glozel&hl=fr&um=1&ie=UTF-8&ei=LU7_ScWrA-KRjAfj--ydAw&sa=X&oi=video_result_group&resnum=5&ct=title#

Even Tom MacDonald has never heard of Glozel !
This is why if you are not careful none will hear of the FAM, unless
you take all precautions not to trust anyone at all !

With kind regards

jpturcaud
kangarooistan
2009-05-05 15:20:15 UTC
Permalink
Sorry for not replying sooner,  dear Mr Kanga, but I was thinking
about the best way for you, NOT TO BE ROBBED OF YOUR DISCOVERY.
Well do not trust Australian Archeologists, that 's for a start ! ...
they will just try to put you aside as soon as possible and call your
discovery Theirs §
Your best bet as long as you wish to get Archaeologist involved would
be with Italian & Greek Archaeologists. The Italian particularly,
being a very young nation, have a tradition of freedom of thinking
linked to the independance of former Towns from one another ! Turino,
Florence or even Modena Universities would be your best bet in my
opinion. You could as well try the Swiss University of Geneva which is
of high repute, but forget Oxford by all means.
What Evans did to the extraordinary discovery of Glozel was to team
with l'Abbé Breuil to grab the credit & when the real discoverer Emile
Fradin,  who was ploughing his field when a cow stepped into the pre-
historic site, refused to step down, they did all everything to ruin
the authenticity of that most amazing discoveryhttp://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glozelhttp://www.dailymotion.com/video/x6mepv_mysteres-glozel_techhttp://video.google.fr/videosearch?q=Glozel&hl=fr&um=1&ie=UTF-8&ei=LU...
Even Tom MacDonald has never heard of Glozel !
This is why if you are not careful none will hear of the FAM, unless
you take all precautions not to trust anyone at all !
With kind regards
jpturcaud
Not sure how to stop others from visiting the site and comparing it
with the map , they wont have the iron tool or most evidence that only
I have noticed many many things I have not mentioned

I only mention enough to confirm the site is indeed the Turin gold
mine

But I will need to get some quality video and release it to the media
ASAP

As to the Ancient mine , there is no doubt its the Turin Papyrus
mine and its in South Australia , there wont be any money flow from
the site except tourism if they market it right it MAY attract some
visitors , but how many would really want to see a hole in the ground
and a heap of ancient mine waste that actually LOOKS like the native
bush to an untrained eye , only a TRUE prospecting miner can ' SEE "
its a vast mine site , It could be marked out for the public to
examine , It may make a nice one or two hour walk with a map and
signs , it may be the oldest mine map ,and the largest ANCIENT mine ,
AND maybe the missing Solomons mine, Not sure on that as there may be
NO such mine any how , there is no evidence Solomon had any mines

I am keen to find out WHO was running it

The Turin Papyrus describes it exactly , but this does not mean
Egyptians operated it

The ear the map was made was one of much unrest in the region and
maps were looted in wars , the fact its location remained lost for
3000 years may mean the Egyptians did not know where it was
The local Aboriginal peoples have many phonetician words and were
known to be culturally different to other groups ,so it may be
possible the aboriginal language may contain words of the miners
languages still

Its easy to find MANY local aboriginal words in the middle east area
even after 3500 years since the mine was opened

Google "MARTU" and its a common word in Aboriginal language and a word
in ancient middle east , its probable the workers who came out to the
mine were from the middle east and may not be related to the people
who operated or owned the mine

Its likely the workers married into local tribes

The fact the mine perfectly matches the Turin papyrus is beyond doubt

There wont be ANY treasure at an old mine site , all wealth would have
been taken as the mine was worked out , it was abandoned and they may
have removed anything of value as they left long ago

The old gilded iron tool is all I found in 50 years , I see a stone
sarcophagus with what looks like the tool being held by the man
standing in front of the king , Im sure there is evidence about WHO
was mining the site , but that's the NEXT step

The Egyptians wanted the gold , the Phoenicians had the only ocean
going vessels , the labor would have been recruited from else , where
nearby probably , Phoenicians were traders and sailors , bu the were
metal workers also, but the tool MAY be another manufacturer again ,
exactly the same as mines today are owned and staffed and use people
from different countries to mine in yet totally different countries

The fact the Papyrus is from Egypt and the mine IS in south Australia
may not mean it was run by Egyptians OR Aboriginals , but a very
careful examination of the local languages may give hints to the
language of the mine workers

You are RIGHT though Sir JPT I should be careful not to give ALL my
research away until after the videos are made to stop theft of my
research




Martu
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, search

Martu may refer to

* an ancient Middle Eastern people; see Amorite.
* the deity they worshipped; see Amurru.
* a Sumerian god; see Martu
* an Australian Aboriginal people.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martu

http://www.google.com.au/search?q=martu&hl=en&safe=off&client=firefox-a&channel=s&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&hs=hfL&start=10&sa=N
Jack Linthicum
2009-05-08 10:31:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by Eric Stevens
On Thu, 30 Apr 2009 14:05:57 -0700 (PDT), Jack Linthicum
Post by Jack Linthicum
Post by Eric Stevens
On Thu, 30 Apr 2009 09:46:00 -0700 (PDT), Jack Linthicum
Post by Jack Linthicum
Post by Eric Stevens
On Thu, 30 Apr 2009 02:38:30 -0700 (PDT), Jack Linthicum
Post by Jack Linthicum
Post by Eric Stevens
On Wed, 29 Apr 2009 04:15:32 -0700 (PDT), Jack Linthicum
Post by Jack Linthicum
Post by Eric Stevens
On Tue, 28 Apr 2009 13:24:23 -0700 (PDT), Jack Linthicum
Post by Jack Linthicum
Post by kangarooistan
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turin_Papyrus_Map
The Turin Papyrus is reported to be a 2 meters long mining map
I claim the left hand section ,  is different and unrelated to the
rest , it even looks different ,
I claim I know a site that fits the map on the left in every detail,
and the buildings , roads ,river , hills and valleys  and the 4
features near the centre  , as  marked , are  identifiable still as if
It was drawn very recently
it is NOT in Egypt
It is in South Australia
Yes I know you have heard this sort of claim before
, but keep an open mind and examine the FACTS , they claim there is a
site in Egypt I claim the site is in South Australia
One of us is wrong , the sites can be examined , it fits like a glove
on this end ,  in minute detail
Once both sites are EXAMINED , then laugh at why nobody noticed
before , the far left map is different to the rest , why assume its
the same area as the other sections
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/ba/TurinPapyrus1.jpgh......
I found this object at the site recently
http://mail.google.com/mail/h/9c8k6m41k4i6/?view=att&th=120e0fd6c757d...
Post by Jack Linthicum
Post by Eric Stevens
Post by Jack Linthicum
Post by Eric Stevens
Post by Jack Linthicum
Post by kangarooistan
, and have spent many decades examining the very unusual features at
this site ,every year growing more and more convinced it is indeed a
VERY large ,  VERY old mine site , predating European settlement by a
VERY long time
I just stumbled ,  on this old Egyptian map and my jaw dropped
I thought it was a joke
I could have drawn it YESTERDAY
Do you know anybody who has examined the mine in Egypt ???
Its a mirror image of the site in South Australia , hard to imagine
such identical natural and man made features being so similar ,
considering its nature who makes the site
There can be no doubt at all on my end , this IS a map of a mine site
in South Australia
This map called the Turin Papyrus the far left panel ,  is indeed in
South Australia
Do laugh too loud , Im 100% sure , but I know you need more evidence ,
that WILL take a while but ,
 WATCH THIS SPACE
kanga
======
You think 3600 years might have changed some of that area? Even if the
map is totally accurate? If so, I have a map of Vinland I can let go
for a really low price.
Depending where it is in South Australia, 3,600 years is but a
twinkling of an eye. The country is harsh and arid. Whatever can blow
away has blown away many thousands of years ago. Depending whereabouts
this mine may be, rainfall is but a light sprinkle ranging up to a
downpour of 18mm/month.
Eric Stevens
Doesn't seem to have stopped, one of the problems with wind erosion,
there is always the next layer.
http://www.dwlbc.sa.gov.au/assets/files/windeinsa.pdf
http://lwa.gov.au/products/pn21484
https://www.allposters.com/View_HighZoomResPop.asp?apn=3194526&imgloc...
But that's the rural land near the coastline. What I had in mind is
the possibility of something more like
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3592/3487989850_4f6ec8272d_b.jpg
andhttp://farm4.static.flickr.com/3338/3487169197_b193aa1704_b.jpg
which can be found several hundred  miles to the north.
Nothing tends move without human disturbance.
Eric Stevens
r
Post by Jack Linthicum
I don't think those are wadis.
I'm glad of that. I never tried to claim they were.
Post by Jack Linthicum
Those are flat places where the wind
blows anything it wants to.
The physical evidence of that site is that the wind hardly ever blows
anything. The major dust transport mechanism relies on the disturbance
of the road by passing vehicles.
Post by Jack Linthicum
Surely as an student of archaeology you
are aware of places like those where a new artifact has been unburied
by the wind?
I'm sure such places exist but I was trying to make the point that the
transformation of the site by the wind is very slow.
Post by Jack Linthicum
The actual Wadi Hammamat
http://egyptology.blogspot.com/2007/08/daily-photo_18.html
http://cameldive.net/images/wadi-lathi-big.jpg
Compare those photographs with the scenery shown in mine.
Eric Stevens
Yours show a flat piece of dry land, if there is no wind there I would
extremely surprised. A wadi is a valley, my pictures are of the actual
Wadi Hammamat, with terrain at varying levels. If you can't see the
difference please apply for a vision test.
You are the person who wants to talk about wadis, not me. As far as I
am concerned wadis have nothing to do with situation.
Are you aware that each time you have replied to me you have mildly
munged the two URLs I gave for my two photographs? I have had to fix
them each time I reply.
You will notice that one of my photographs shows more or less flat
ground to the horizon. The ground is quite thickly covered with flakes
of gypsum. If there had been significant wind erosion you would expect
to find the larger pices (at least) perched on little islands of
uneroded soil. In fact there is no evidence of undercutting around the
stones and this, in itself, points to wind erosion being of very minor
significance. That is the point I was trying to make.
What is not apparent in the photograph is that ground is randomly
covered with a plant with the appearance of lichen. I don't think that
this could establish itself if the soil was always being blown away.
Rainfall is mostly in the form of dew, although every few years there
is a genuine rain shower.
Eric Stevens
I talk about a Wadi because this map shows a Wadi in the Eleventh
Century BC. Particularly the gold mine at Bir Umm Fawakhir, the
subject of the original post.
http://www.tms.org/pubs/journals/JOM/9703/Meyer-9703.html
I responded to your statement
  "You think 3600 years might have changed some of that area? Even if
   the map is totally accurate? If so, I have a map of Vinland I can
   let go for a really low price."
... by writing
   "Depending where it is in South Australia, 3,600 years is but a
    twinkling of an eye. The country is harsh and arid. Whatever can
    blow away has blown away many thousands of years ago. Depending
    whereabouts this mine may be, rainfall is but a light sprinkle
    ranging up to a downpour of 18mm/month."
That's the point I've _always_ been addressing, the very slow rate of
change to be found to be found in parts of Australia. I have
absolutely no idea of where Kangarooistan thinks his mine might be
located so I can only talk in generalities. I certainly haven't been
trying to identify the possible location of the mine. My point was,
and still is, that in some parts of Australia, 3600 years with very
little change is not at all surprising.
Eric Stevens
I cited the "native names" for Emus. None like emu. All the sources
say "Emu" is Portuguese (Ema), from Arabic, which would make Emu much
more likely in the Middle East than South Australia. Even early use of
the word in Australia is not "emu".

"emu †cassowary XVII; †American ostrich (?) XVIII; flightless
Australian bird XIX. Earliest forms emia, eme, later emeu, emew, orig.
— Pg. ema.

Cite this article
Pick a style below, and copy the text for your bibliography.

*
MLA
*
Chicago
*
APA

T. F. HOAD. "emu." The Concise Oxford Dictionary of English Etymology.
1996. Encyclopedia.com. 8 May. 2009 <http://www.encyclopedia.com>."

http://www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1O27-emu.html
kangarooistan
2009-05-08 14:21:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jack Linthicum
Post by Eric Stevens
On Thu, 30 Apr 2009 14:05:57 -0700 (PDT), Jack Linthicum
Post by Jack Linthicum
Post by Eric Stevens
On Thu, 30 Apr 2009 09:46:00 -0700 (PDT), Jack Linthicum
Post by Jack Linthicum
Post by Eric Stevens
On Thu, 30 Apr 2009 02:38:30 -0700 (PDT), Jack Linthicum
Post by Jack Linthicum
Post by Eric Stevens
On Wed, 29 Apr 2009 04:15:32 -0700 (PDT), Jack Linthicum
Post by Jack Linthicum
Post by Eric Stevens
On Tue, 28 Apr 2009 13:24:23 -0700 (PDT), Jack Linthicum
Post by Jack Linthicum
Post by kangarooistan
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turin_Papyrus_Map
The Turin Papyrus is reported to be a 2 meters long mining map
I claim the left hand section ,  is different and unrelated to the
rest , it even looks different ,
I claim I know a site that fits the map on the left in every detail,
and the buildings , roads ,river , hills and valleys  and the 4
features near the centre  , as  marked , are  identifiable still as if
It was drawn very recently
it is NOT in Egypt
It is in South Australia
Yes I know you have heard this sort of claim before
, but keep an open mind and examine the FACTS , they claim there is a
site in Egypt I claim the site is in South Australia
One of us is wrong , the sites can be examined , it fits like a glove
on this end ,  in minute detail
Once both sites are EXAMINED , then laugh at why nobody noticed
before , the far left map is different to the rest , why assume its
the same area as the other sections
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/ba/TurinPapyrus1.jpgh......
I found this object at the site recently
http://mail.google.com/mail/h/9c8k6m41k4i6/?view=att&th=120e0fd6c757d...
Post by Jack Linthicum
Post by Eric Stevens
Post by Jack Linthicum
Post by Eric Stevens
Post by Jack Linthicum
Post by kangarooistan
, and have spent many decades examining the very unusual features at
this site ,every year growing more and more convinced it is indeed a
VERY large ,  VERY old mine site , predating European settlement by a
VERY long time
I just stumbled ,  on this old Egyptian map and my jaw dropped
I thought it was a joke
I could have drawn it YESTERDAY
Do you know anybody who has examined the mine in Egypt ???
Its a mirror image of the site in South Australia , hard to imagine
such identical natural and man made features being so similar ,
considering its nature who makes the site
There can be no doubt at all on my end , this IS a map of a mine site
in South Australia
This map called the Turin Papyrus the far left panel ,  is indeed in
South Australia
Do laugh too loud , Im 100% sure , but I know you need more evidence ,
that WILL take a while but ,
 WATCH THIS SPACE
kanga
======
You think 3600 years might have changed some of that area? Even if the
map is totally accurate? If so, I have a map of Vinland I can let go
for a really low price.
Depending where it is in South Australia, 3,600 years is but a
twinkling of an eye. The country is harsh and arid. Whatever can blow
away has blown away many thousands of years ago. Depending whereabouts
this mine may be, rainfall is but a light sprinkle ranging up to a
downpour of 18mm/month.
Eric Stevens
Doesn't seem to have stopped, one of the problems with wind erosion,
there is always the next layer.
http://www.dwlbc.sa.gov.au/assets/files/windeinsa.pdf
http://lwa.gov.au/products/pn21484
https://www.allposters.com/View_HighZoomResPop.asp?apn=3194526&imgloc...
But that's the rural land near the coastline. What I had in mind is
the possibility of something more like
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3592/3487989850_4f6ec8272d_b.jpg
andhttp://farm4.static.flickr.com/3338/3487169197_b193aa1704_b.jpg
which can be found several hundred  miles to the north.
Nothing tends move without human disturbance.
Eric Stevens
r
Post by Jack Linthicum
I don't think those are wadis.
I'm glad of that. I never tried to claim they were.
Post by Jack Linthicum
Those are flat places where the wind
blows anything it wants to.
The physical evidence of that site is that the wind hardly ever blows
anything. The major dust transport mechanism relies on the disturbance
of the road by passing vehicles.
Post by Jack Linthicum
Surely as an student of archaeology you
are aware of places like those where a new artifact has been unburied
by the wind?
I'm sure such places exist but I was trying to make the point that the
transformation of the site by the wind is very slow.
Post by Jack Linthicum
The actual Wadi Hammamat
http://egyptology.blogspot.com/2007/08/daily-photo_18.html
http://cameldive.net/images/wadi-lathi-big.jpg
Compare those photographs with the scenery shown in mine.
Eric Stevens
Yours show a flat piece of dry land, if there is no wind there I would
extremely surprised. A wadi is a valley, my pictures are of the actual
Wadi Hammamat, with terrain at varying levels. If you can't see the
difference please apply for a vision test.
You are the person who wants to talk about wadis, not me. As far as I
am concerned wadis have nothing to do with situation.
Are you aware that each time you have replied to me you have mildly
munged the two URLs I gave for my two photographs? I have had to fix
them each time I reply.
You will notice that one of my photographs shows more or less flat
ground to the horizon. The ground is quite thickly covered with flakes
of gypsum. If there had been significant wind erosion you would expect
to find the larger pices (at least) perched on little islands of
uneroded soil. In fact there is no evidence of undercutting around the
stones and this, in itself, points to wind erosion being of very minor
significance. That is the point I was trying to make.
What is not apparent in the photograph is that ground is randomly
covered with a plant with the appearance of lichen. I don't think that
this could establish itself if the soil was always being blown away.
Rainfall is mostly in the form of dew, although every few years there
is a genuine rain shower.
Eric Stevens
I talk about a Wadi because this map shows a Wadi in the Eleventh
Century BC. Particularly the gold mine at Bir Umm Fawakhir, the
subject of the original post.
http://www.tms.org/pubs/journals/JOM/9703/Meyer-9703.html
I responded to your statement
  "You think 3600 years might have changed some of that area? Even if
   the map is totally accurate? If so, I have a map of Vinland I can
   let go for a really low price."
... by writing
   "Depending where it is in South Australia, 3,600 years is but a
    twinkling of an eye. The country is harsh and arid. Whatever can
    blow away has blown away many thousands of years ago. Depending
    whereabouts this mine may be, rainfall is but a light sprinkle
    ranging up to a downpour of 18mm/month."
That's the point I've _always_ been addressing, the very slow rate of
change to be found to be found in parts of Australia. I have
absolutely no idea of where Kangarooistan thinks his mine might be
located so I can only talk in generalities. I certainly haven't been
trying to identify the possible location of the mine. My point was,
and still is, that in some parts of Australia, 3600 years with very
little change is not at all surprising.
Eric Stevens
I cited the "native names" for Emus. None like emu. All the sources
say "Emu" is Portuguese (Ema), from Arabic, which would make Emu much
more likely in the Middle East than South Australia. Even early use of
the word in Australia is not "emu".
"emu †cassowary XVII; †American ostrich (?) XVIII; flightless
Australian bird XIX. Earliest forms emia, eme, later emeu, emew, orig.
— Pg. ema.
Cite this article
Pick a style below, and copy the text for your bibliography.
    *
      MLA
    *
      Chicago
    *
      APA
T. F. HOAD. "emu." The Concise Oxford Dictionary of English Etymology.
1996. Encyclopedia.com. 8 May. 2009 <http://www.encyclopedia.com>."
http://www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1O27-emu.html
Hi JACK

Thats my point Jack

My question was
Where is the green gold from EMU , that Hapshepsut referred to as
[ green gold from Emu ] actually from

Green gold from EMU , was referred to by an ancient middle eastern
person , not Australian Aboriginals

Emu is NOT AN AUSTRALIAN ABORIGINAL word

Emu is NOT an aboriginal word it is and ancient and remains still a
Arabic word for BIG BIRD

Where is the "LAND OF BIG BIRDS" that the green gold from EAST of
Egypt was sending via the sea people to the ancient Egyptians

we KNOW green gold was mined at the so called Turin papyrus gold mine
as it clearly says silver and gold were to be found at the site

I KNOW a ancient mine , EAST of Egypt , with green gold , and LARGE
BIRDS , that fits EXACTLY the Turin papyrus map , and the local
Aboriginal do indeed use many ARABIC words STILL

We know the native Australian peoples showed no interest in gold even
though it was available theyhad no use or history of interest in it

Indeed the entire miners of ancient world would have had no way to own
or sell or trade in gold ,

ALL gold would quickly end up in the hands of the ruling powers of the
time

Indeed 3000 years ago GOLD was viewed as a part of the then GOD , and
to own or hold it would have been forbidden to mere mortals and mine
workers may never have seen the end product of their labor

Most people back then would NEVER see gold in any form ever and have
no way to trade it

----------------------------------------------------------------------
There are hundreds of words that connect SOUTH AUSTRALIAN Aboriginals
with the sea people / Phoneticians
.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martu
Martu
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, search

Martu may refer to

* an ancient Middle Eastern people; see Amorite.
* the deity they worshipped; see Amurru.
* a Sumerian god; see Martu
* an Australian Aboriginal people.
----------------------------------------------------------

they even LOOK alike in some ways , as does their languages , even
after 3000 years they CAN trace genetic AND linguistic links

no point worrying mate ,Im working on the doco , it will take time
mate

Interesting to examine the genetic / DNA links between the Australian
and Palestinians / Phoenicians
Jack Linthicum
2009-05-08 14:37:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by kangarooistan
Post by Jack Linthicum
Post by Eric Stevens
On Thu, 30 Apr 2009 14:05:57 -0700 (PDT), Jack Linthicum
Post by Jack Linthicum
Post by Eric Stevens
On Thu, 30 Apr 2009 09:46:00 -0700 (PDT), Jack Linthicum
Post by Jack Linthicum
Post by Eric Stevens
On Thu, 30 Apr 2009 02:38:30 -0700 (PDT), Jack Linthicum
Post by Jack Linthicum
Post by Eric Stevens
On Wed, 29 Apr 2009 04:15:32 -0700 (PDT), Jack Linthicum
Post by Jack Linthicum
Post by Eric Stevens
On Tue, 28 Apr 2009 13:24:23 -0700 (PDT), Jack Linthicum
Post by Jack Linthicum
Post by kangarooistan
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turin_Papyrus_Map
The Turin Papyrus is reported to be a 2 meters long mining map
I claim the left hand section ,  is different and unrelated to the
rest , it even looks different ,
I claim I know a site that fits the map on the left in every detail,
and the buildings , roads ,river , hills and valleys  and the 4
features near the centre  , as  marked , are  identifiable still as if
It was drawn very recently
it is NOT in Egypt
It is in South Australia
Yes I know you have heard this sort of claim before
, but keep an open mind and examine the FACTS , they claim there is a
site in Egypt I claim the site is in South Australia
One of us is wrong , the sites can be examined , it fits like a glove
on this end ,  in minute detail
Once both sites are EXAMINED , then laugh at why nobody noticed
before , the far left map is different to the rest , why assume its
the same area as the other sections
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/ba/TurinPapyrus1.jpgh......
I found this object at the site recently
http://mail.google.com/mail/h/9c8k6m41k4i6/?view=att&th=120e0fd6c757d...
Post by Jack Linthicum
Post by Eric Stevens
Post by Jack Linthicum
Post by Eric Stevens
Post by Jack Linthicum
Post by kangarooistan
, and have spent many decades examining the very unusual features at
this site ,every year growing more and more convinced it is indeed a
VERY large ,  VERY old mine site , predating European settlement by a
VERY long time
I just stumbled ,  on this old Egyptian map and my jaw dropped
I thought it was a joke
I could have drawn it YESTERDAY
Do you know anybody who has examined the mine in Egypt ???
Its a mirror image of the site in South Australia , hard to imagine
such identical natural and man made features being so similar ,
considering its nature who makes the site
There can be no doubt at all on my end , this IS a map of a mine site
in South Australia
This map called the Turin Papyrus the far left panel ,  is indeed in
South Australia
Do laugh too loud , Im 100% sure , but I know you need more evidence ,
that WILL take a while but ,
 WATCH THIS SPACE
kanga
======
You think 3600 years might have changed some of that area? Even if the
map is totally accurate? If so, I have a map of Vinland I can let go
for a really low price.
Depending where it is in South Australia, 3,600 years is but a
twinkling of an eye. The country is harsh and arid. Whatever can blow
away has blown away many thousands of years ago. Depending whereabouts
this mine may be, rainfall is but a light sprinkle ranging up to a
downpour of 18mm/month.
Eric Stevens
Doesn't seem to have stopped, one of the problems with wind erosion,
there is always the next layer.
http://www.dwlbc.sa.gov.au/assets/files/windeinsa.pdf
http://lwa.gov.au/products/pn21484
https://www.allposters.com/View_HighZoomResPop.asp?apn=3194526&imgloc...
But that's the rural land near the coastline. What I had in mind is
the possibility of something more like
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3592/3487989850_4f6ec8272d_b.jpg
andhttp://farm4.static.flickr.com/3338/3487169197_b193aa1704_b.jpg
which can be found several hundred  miles to the north.
Nothing tends move without human disturbance.
Eric Stevens
r
Post by Jack Linthicum
I don't think those are wadis.
I'm glad of that. I never tried to claim they were.
Post by Jack Linthicum
Those are flat places where the wind
blows anything it wants to.
The physical evidence of that site is that the wind hardly ever blows
anything. The major dust transport mechanism relies on the disturbance
of the road by passing vehicles.
Post by Jack Linthicum
Surely as an student of archaeology you
are aware of places like those where a new artifact has been unburied
by the wind?
I'm sure such places exist but I was trying to make the point that the
transformation of the site by the wind is very slow.
Post by Jack Linthicum
The actual Wadi Hammamat
http://egyptology.blogspot.com/2007/08/daily-photo_18.html
http://cameldive.net/images/wadi-lathi-big.jpg
Compare those photographs with the scenery shown in mine.
Eric Stevens
Yours show a flat piece of dry land, if there is no wind there I would
extremely surprised. A wadi is a valley, my pictures are of the actual
Wadi Hammamat, with terrain at varying levels. If you can't see the
difference please apply for a vision test.
You are the person who wants to talk about wadis, not me. As far as I
am concerned wadis have nothing to do with situation.
Are you aware that each time you have replied to me you have mildly
munged the two URLs I gave for my two photographs? I have had to fix
them each time I reply.
You will notice that one of my photographs shows more or less flat
ground to the horizon. The ground is quite thickly covered with flakes
of gypsum. If there had been significant wind erosion you would expect
to find the larger pices (at least) perched on little islands of
uneroded soil. In fact there is no evidence of undercutting around the
stones and this, in itself, points to wind erosion being of very minor
significance. That is the point I was trying to make.
What is not apparent in the photograph is that ground is randomly
covered with a plant with the appearance of lichen. I don't think that
this could establish itself if the soil was always being blown away.
Rainfall is mostly in the form of dew, although every few years there
is a genuine rain shower.
Eric Stevens
I talk about a Wadi because this map shows a Wadi in the Eleventh
Century BC. Particularly the gold mine at Bir Umm Fawakhir, the
subject of the original post.
http://www.tms.org/pubs/journals/JOM/9703/Meyer-9703.html
I responded to your statement
  "You think 3600 years might have changed some of that area? Even if
   the map is totally accurate? If so, I have a map of Vinland I can
   let go for a really low price."
... by writing
   "Depending where it is in South Australia, 3,600 years is but a
    twinkling of an eye. The country is harsh and arid. Whatever can
    blow away has blown away many thousands of years ago. Depending
    whereabouts this mine may be, rainfall is but a light sprinkle
    ranging up to a downpour of 18mm/month."
That's the point I've _always_ been addressing, the very slow rate of
change to be found to be found in parts of Australia. I have
absolutely no idea of where Kangarooistan thinks his mine might be
located so I can only talk in generalities. I certainly haven't been
trying to identify the possible location of the mine. My point was,
and still is, that in some parts of Australia, 3600 years with very
little change is not at all surprising.
Eric Stevens
I cited the "native names" for Emus. None like emu. All the sources
say "Emu" is Portuguese (Ema), from Arabic, which would make Emu much
more likely in the Middle East than South Australia. Even early use of
the word in Australia is not "emu".
"emu †cassowary XVII; †American ostrich (?) XVIII; flightless
Australian bird XIX. Earliest forms emia, eme, later emeu, emew, orig.
— Pg. ema.
Cite this article
Pick a style below, and copy the text for your bibliography.
    *
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T. F. HOAD. "emu." The Concise Oxford Dictionary of English Etymology.
1996. Encyclopedia.com. 8 May. 2009 <http://www.encyclopedia.com>."
http://www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1O27-emu.html
Hi JACK
Thats my point Jack
My question was
Where is the green gold from EMU , that Hapshepsut referred to as
[ green gold from Emu ]  actually  from
Green gold from EMU , was referred to by an ancient middle eastern
person , not Australian Aboriginals
Emu is NOT AN  AUSTRALIAN ABORIGINAL word
Emu is NOT an aboriginal word it is and ancient and remains still  a
Arabic word for BIG BIRD
Where is the "LAND OF BIG BIRDS" that the green gold from EAST of
Egypt  was sending  via the sea people to the ancient Egyptians
we KNOW green gold was mined at the so called Turin papyrus gold mine
as it clearly says silver and gold were to be found at the site
I KNOW a ancient mine ,  EAST of Egypt ,  with green gold ,  and LARGE
BIRDS  ,  that fits EXACTLY the Turin papyrus map ,  and the local
Aboriginal do indeed use many ARABIC words STILL
We know the native Australian peoples showed no interest in gold even
though it was available theyhad no use or history of interest in it
Indeed the entire miners of ancient world would have had no way to own
or sell or trade in gold ,
ALL gold would quickly end up in the hands of the ruling powers of the
time
Indeed 3000 years ago GOLD was viewed as a part of the then GOD , and
to own or hold it would have been forbidden to mere mortals  and mine
workers may never have seen the end product of their labor
Most people back then would NEVER see gold in any form ever and have
no way to trade it
----------------------------------------------------------------------
There are hundreds of words that connect SOUTH AUSTRALIAN Aboriginals
with the sea people / Phoneticians
.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martu
Martu
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, search
Martu may refer to
    * an ancient Middle Eastern people; see Amorite.
    * the deity they worshipped; see Amurru.
    * a Sumerian god; see Martu
    * an Australian Aboriginal people.
----------------------------------------------------------
they even LOOK alike in some ways , as does their languages , even
after 3000 years they CAN trace genetic AND linguistic links
no point worrying mate ,Im working on the doco , it will take time
mate
Interesting to examine the genetic / DNA links between the Australian
and Palestinians / Phoenicians
Find help
Jack Linthicum
2009-05-08 15:15:42 UTC
Permalink
On May 8, 10:37 am, Jack Linthicum <***@earthlink.net>
wrote:


Phoenician is J2, Aborigines C, figures at the cite

http://www.pnas.org/content/104/21/8726.full


Revealing the prehistoric settlement of Australia by Y chromosome and
mtDNA analysis

1. Georgi Hudjashova,
2. Toomas Kivisilda,b,c,
3. Peter A. Underhilld,
4. Phillip Endicotte,
5. Juan J. Sanchezf,
6. Alice A. Lind,
7. Peidong Sheng,
8. Peter Oefnerh,
9. Colin Renfrewc,i,
10. Richard Villemsa, and
11. Peter Forsterj

+Author Affiliations

1.
aEstonian Biocentre and Tartu University, Department of
Evolutionary Biology, Riia 23, 51010 Tartu, Estonia;
2.
bLeverhulme Centre for Human Evolutionary Studies, University of
Cambridge, Cambridge CB2 1QH, United Kingdom;
3.
dDepartment of Genetics, Stanford University School of Medicine,
Stanford, CA 94305-5120;
4.
eDepartment of Zoology, University of Oxford, Oxford OX1 3PS,
United Kingdom;
5.
fNational Institute of Toxicology and Forensic Science, Canary
Islands Delegation, Campus de Ciencias de la Salud, 38320 La Laguna,
Tenerife, Spain;
6.
gStanford Genome Technology Center, Palo Alto, CA 94304;
7.
hInstitute of Functional Genomics, University of Regensburg,
Josef-Engert-Strasse 9, 93053 Regensburg, Germany;
8.
iMcDonald Institute for Archaeological Research, University of
Cambridge, Downing Street, Cambridge CB2 3ER, United Kingdom; and
9.
jDepartment of Forensic Science and Chemistry, Faculty of
Science and Technology, Anglia Ruskin University, East Road, Cambridge
CB1 1PT, United Kingdom

1.

Contributed by Colin Renfrew, March 30, 2007 (received for
review February 23, 2007)


Next Section
Abstract

Published and new samples of Aboriginal Australians and Melanesians
were analyzed for mtDNA (n = 172) and Y variation (n = 522), and the
resulting profiles were compared with the branches known so far within
the global mtDNA and the Y chromosome tree. (i) All Australian
lineages are confirmed to fall within the mitochondrial founder
branches M and N and the Y chromosomal founders C and F, which are
associated with the exodus of modern humans from Africa ≈50–70,000
years ago. The analysis reveals no evidence for any archaic maternal
or paternal lineages in Australians, despite some suggestively robust
features in the Australian fossil record, thus weakening the argument
for continuity with any earlier Homo erectus populations in Southeast
Asia. (ii) The tree of complete mtDNA sequences shows that Aboriginal
Australians are most closely related to the autochthonous populations
of New Guinea/Melanesia, indicating that prehistoric Australia and New
Guinea were occupied initially by one and the same Palaeolithic
colonization event ≈50,000 years ago, in agreement with current
archaeological evidence. (iii) The deep mtDNA and Y chromosomal
branching patterns between Australia and most other populations around
the Indian Ocean point to a considerable isolation after the initial
arrival. (iv) We detect only minor secondary gene flow into Australia,
and this could have taken place before the land bridge between
Australia and New Guinea was submerged ≈8,000 years ago, thus calling
into question that certain significant developments in later
Australian prehistory (the emergence of a backed-blade lithic
industry, and the linguistic dichotomy) were externally motivated.

* human evolution
* population genetics

Australia was probably occupied by humans at least 50,000 years ago
(1), at a time when lowered sea levels created a land bridge between
Australia and neighboring New Guinea (NG) and when the region was
separated from the Eurasian land mass by only narrow straits such as
Wallace's Line (Fig. 1). Australia's archaeological record remains
mysterious. To begin with, Australia harbors among the oldest modern
human fossils outside Africa dating to ≈46,000 years (2, 3), despite
the large geographic distance from the African homeland of mankind
(4). Moreover, the earliest known Australian skeletons, at Lake Mungo,
are gracile, whereas some younger skeletal finds (e.g., at Kow Swamp)
have robust morphology (5). Some modern Australian aboriginals retain
elements of this robustness, for example, in the form of pronounced
brow ridges (supraorbital tori) (6, 7). Various explanations can be
put forward for the inconsistent morphological record, for example
that local Homo erectus of Southeast Asia admixed into the modern
human gene pool to a lesser or greater extent (5, 8), or that there
have been multiple migrations to Australia that gave rise to the
differing morphologies at different times, such as hypothetical new
migrants from India (9), or that Australia has been genetically
isolated for a sufficiently long time to produce marked continent-/
Australian-specific features (10–14).
Fig. 1.
View larger version:

* In this page
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Fig. 1.

Coastlines of Australia and NG ≈50,000 years ago. After the initial
spread of H. sapiens out of Africa to Sahul (the formerly connected
land mass of Australia and NG), the principal processes are
differentiation of the mitochondrial DNA clades Q and S. Subsequent to
that process, there is little migration within Sahul other than Q from
NG to Australia. The genetic isolation of Australia is in the main
very clearly evident already before the Sahul land bridge disappears
≈8,000 years ago. See Results and Discussion for further details.

Archaeological data indicate the intensification of density and
complexity of different stone tools in Australia during the Holocene
period and the emergence of backed-blade stone-tool technology (15).
The first Dingoes (Canis lupus dingo) also appear at about the same
time (3,500–4,000 years ago) and were proposed to have been introduced
by new human arrivals, from India (16), along with new stone tool
types (17). This debate is ongoing (15, 18, 19).

Recent molecular studies on humans have likewise yielded a diversity
of interpretations, ranging from a deep but undated split
distinguishing Australians even from their immediate neighbors to the
north in NG (20) to a very recent immigration event within the
Holocene in the past 10,000 years (21, 22).

Using new Australian and NG samples screened for mtDNA and Y
chromosome variation and benefiting from the increasing genetic sample
coverage available for Australia [Fig. 1 (4, 20–32)], we can now
attempt to clarify some of the salient features of the record of
Australian population history and confirm its considerable isolation.
Previous SectionNext Section
Results and Discussion
African Ancestry of Australian and NG Y and mtDNA Types.

We carried out a phylogenetic analysis of our Australian and NG
complete mtDNA sequences and compared the resulting branches with the
Asian mtDNA tree, as known so far (Fig. 2). The result confirms that
both Australian and NG maternal lineages consist exclusively of the
known out-of-Africa founder types M and N, dated to ≈50–70,000 years
ago, and their derivatives (24–27, 29, 30, 33–37). This mitochondrial
finding is mirrored in our Y chromosome data (Fig. 3), where we
observe the paternal lineages in Australians and New Guineans to fall
into either branches C or F, proposed to be the earliest out-of-Africa
founder types (31). These results indicate that Australians and New
Guineans are ultimately descended from the same African emigrant group
50–70,000 years ago, as all other Eurasians. In other words, these
data provide further evidence that local H. erectus or archaic Homo
sapiens populations did not contribute to the modern aboriginal
Australian gene pool, nor did Australians and New Guineans derive from
a hypothetical second migration out of Africa (38), nor is there any
suggestion of a specific relationship with India (9, 21, 22).
Fig. 2.
View larger version:

* In this page
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Fig. 2.

Simplified tree of autochthonous Near Oceanian mtDNA branches. East
and Southeast Asian, and Indian specific clusters are added for
comparison. Mutations relevant to Australia, Melanesia, and NG are
shown along the branches. Only branches identified by at least two
complete mtDNA sequences are included. For data and a detailed tree,
see SI Fig. 4.
Fig. 3.
View larger version:

* In this page
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Fig. 3.

Simplified Y chromosomal phylogeny including the recently discovered
Australia-specific marker M347. For data and a detailed tree, see SI
Fig. 5.

Comparing the Australian complete mtDNA sequences within the context
of the Asian phylogeny (25, 26, 38–45), we find that the Australians
do not share any derived branches with Asians more recent than the
founding types M, N, and R (Fig. 2). Similarly, our increased
resolution of regionally differentiated Y chromosomal types, C5 in
India, C4 in Australia, and C2 in NG provide evidence of significant
long-term isolation (Fig. 3). Although the confirmed existence of F*
chromosomes in India (13, 46) suggests they may also exist in
Australia and NG, incomplete molecular analysis for types G–J in some
previous studies (28, 47) leaves the issue of the presence of basal F*
chromosomes in Australia and NG unresolved. The implication is that
the migration rate of the founders from Africa along the Indian Ocean
has been rapid relative to the mutation rate of the complete mtDNA
genome [one mutation in ≈5,000 years; see Mishmar et al. (37)]. These
findings support the relatively rapid migration of the Eurasian
founder types to Southeast Asia (45) and, as we can now confirm, all
the way to Australia. It should be noted that migration in this
context refers not simply to travel but also to successful
colonization. Applying the given mutation rate to the M, N, and R
founders, the migration from southwestern Asia to Australia would have
taken <5,200 years at 95% confidence, assuming a Poisson mutation
process. This migration speed is in the same order of magnitude as
estimated for other prehistoric continental settlements (48).
Australian and NG Founder Lineages.

An important result in our high-resolution mtDNA data is the discovery
that Australians and New Guineans not only share the same M and N
founders dating from the African exodus but furthermore within M share
a characteristic variant nucleotide position 13500, which is
widespread in Australia, NG, and neighboring Melanesia but not found
elsewhere in the world. Taken together with the fact that the
ancestral node, but not the derived lineages, is shared between
Australia and NG/Melanesia (Fig. 2), we argue for a single founder
group settling the whole region of Australia and NG ≈50,000 years ago.
Strongly supporting evidence for this view comes from the N portion of
the mtDNA phylogeny (Fig. 2), where a major deep subclade P is found
in both Australia and NG/Melanesia but not elsewhere, with the time-
depth estimates for P again ranging around the 50,000-year mark (Table
1).
View this table:

* In this window
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Table 1.

Age estimates for mtDNA branches found in Australians, New Guineans,
and Melanesians

Within Australia, the ancient mtDNA branch S (27) stands out, because
it is found in 34% of our Australians [supporting information (SI)
Table 2], and it is well represented in other regions of Australia, as
detailed in Fig. 1 (4, 21, 23–27, 29) and has so far not been detected
elsewhere in the world, based on the available global mtDNA database
of >40,000 sequences (49). This branch is distinguished from the root
of macrohaplogroup N by a transition at nucleotide position 8404.
Nearly all Australians who do not have mtDNA type S nevertheless
harbor deep mtDNA branches specific to Australia, several of which are
described in this study (SI Fig. 4). These deep and continent-specific
branches indicate substantial isolation since the first colonization
of Australia. Although NG and Australia were not separated until 8,000
years ago, we can estimate the time depth for the arrival in Australia
both qualitatively and quantitatively. Qualitatively, as argued above,
the relatively nested phylogenetic structure, with no mutation events
separating the M, N, and R founders around the Indian Ocean even at
the highly resolved level of the complete mtDNA sequence, indicates an
arrival in Australia soon after the African exodus, the latter dated
to 50–70,000 years ago (14, 36, 48). Quantitatively, the absolute date
estimates for the founder clusters in Near Oceania yield dates of up
to 58,000 ± 8,000 years ago (Table 1).
Occurrence of a “New Guinean” Lineage in Northern Australia.

There is an important exception to the general pattern of Australian-
specific lineages in Australian aboriginals, and this concerns mtDNA
branch Q. Thus far, Q has been considered as having a geographic
distribution restricted to NG and Melanesia (25, 26, 30, 33–35, 50).
Surprisingly, in our northern Australian Kalumburu sample, we now find
an Aboriginal Australian mtDNA lineage bearing all of the basic
mutations characteristic of haplogroup Q. This Australian Q lineage
does not appear to be a recent arrival from NG (nor indeed a case of
sample confusion), because the lineage does not belong to any of the
common and widespread Q subclusters known so far from NG and
Melanesia. The Australian Q instead branches deeply within Q to a
depth of five mtDNA mutations. The mutational time of separation of
this Q lineage from existing NG Q branches is estimated at 30,400 ±
9,300 years (Table 1). The geographically restricted appearance of Q
in northern Australia may suggest a secondary arrival of settlers from
NG well before the land bridge between Australia and NG was submerged
≈8,000 years ago.

Apart from this potential signal of secondary migration into
Australia, there seem to be no further lineages either on the
Australian Y or mtDNA tree that would provide clear evidence for
extensive genetic contact since the first settlement, except possibly
for a P3 sublineage shared between Australia and NG (Fig. 2). Thus,
Australia appears to have been largely isolated since initial
settlement, in agreement with one interpretation of the fossil record
(10, 11). In particular, there are no lineages exclusively shared
between Australia and India that might have indicated common ancestry
as originally proposed by Huxley (9). Indeed, we have identified a new
Y marker M347 (Fig. 3), which distinguishes all Australian C types
from Indian or other Asian C types and adds weight to the rejection of
the Huxley hypothesis. NG, in contrast, does carry a clear imprint of
new arrivals at least along its coasts, where the “Austronesian” B
mtDNA type has been established (51, 52).

This conclusion may have a negative bearing on the much-discussed
emergence of a new stone tool industry in Australia, the “small tool”
tradition, characterized by backed blades (15, 53). There is currently
no evidence in Australia to associate this change in the material
culture record with the arrival of new maternal and paternal lineages.

A major question that has not been addressed here and awaits
resolution is the intriguing linguistic landscape of Australia, where
seven-eighths of the continent is dominated by a single language
family (Pama-Nyungan), whereas all other language families are
concentrated in the northwestern region of Australia [Fig. 1 (54)].
Our samples from Kalumburu are from the linguistically diverse
northern zone, where we have identified potential secondary gene flow
into Australia as evidenced by a mitochondrial Q lineage distantly
related to current NG Q lineages. The secondary migration ≈30,000
years ago associated with the arrival of the Q lineage would be
considered too early, in the view of most linguists, to account for
this dichotomy. Future more exhaustive genetic surveys of the
Australian continent may one day resolve whether the Australian
linguistic landscape can be better understood with the identification
of such potential contact events. At present, it may seem preferable
to seek an explanation for the dichotomy in terms of events and
processes internal to Australia.
Previous SectionNext Section
Conclusions

The mitochondrial and Y chromosomal results presented here point
toward one early founder group settling both Australia and NG soon
after the exodus from Africa ≈50–70,000 years ago, at a time when the
lowered sea levels joined the two islands into one land mass,
necessitating sea travel only across narrow straits such as Wallace's
Line. The deep and specific phylogenetic lineages today within this
former landmass indicate a small founding population size and
subsequent isolation of Australia and, to a lesser extent, of NG, from
the rest of the world. These founder events and the lack of contact
could underlie the divergent morphological development seen in the
Australian human fossil record and could also help explain the
remarkably restricted range of Pleistocene Australian lithic
industries and bone artifacts compared with contemporaneous cultures
elsewhere in the world (55).
Previous SectionNext Section
Materials and Methods
Samples.

In total, 172 Australian and Melanesian mtDNAs and 522 Y chromosome
profiles were used in this study. Samples were obtained with informed
consent. The following mtDNA sequences were generated: 32 sampled
Aboriginal Australians from Kalumburu in northwestern Australia and 48
NG highlanders from the Bundi area (Fig. 1). Four of the Australian
individuals had been characterized by Y chromosome short tandem repeat
analysis (20). In addition, mtDNA sequences were generated from the
following DNA samples described in Kivisild et al. (27): two
Aboriginal Australian samples (Oc06 and Oc10), two NG samples (Oc01
and Oc16), and two Melanesian samples (Oc03 and Oc04). Extended Y
chromosomal profiles were generated for the males within these samples
(6/32 Aboriginal Australians and 19/48 New Guineans).

Previously published mtDNA profiles were included as follows: 33
complete or nearly complete mtDNA sequences from Australia (25–27, 29,
30); 32 complete or nearly complete mtDNA sequences from NG (25–27,
30, 33, 34); and 27 complete or nearly complete mtDNA sequences from
Melanesia (25, 27, 30, 34, 35).

Published Eurasian and Near Oceanian Y chromosomal haplotypes in the
present study include: 102 Aboriginal Australians (28, 31, 32); 395
New Guineans (28, 31, 32, 47); 1,021 individuals from Southeast Asian
populations (28, 31, 32, 47, 56); 1,141 individuals from the Indian
subcontinent and Pakistan (13, 31, 32, 46); 358 individuals from East
Asian populations (13, 28, 31, 32); and 1,065 individuals from
Northeast and Central Asian populations (31, 32, 56) (see SI Fig. 5
for further details).
mtDNA Typing.

The first hypervariable segment (HVS-1) of mtDNA (nps 16024–16383) and
the stretch 57–302 of HVS-2 were sequenced directly from both strands
in all samples. Additionally, two macrohaplogroup M and N defining
mutations, namely 10398 A>G and 10400 C>T, were genotyped in all
samples by RFLP (DdeI 10394 and AluI 10397 respectively). M types were
further analyzed, by direct sequencing, for the Q and M29 marker
13500C (33, 50) and N types were checked for the S marker 8404C (27)
and the P marker 15607G (33, 50). Additional coding region markers
were analyzed in S and P mtDNA types (SI Table 3). The haplotypes
defined by control region sequences and coding region SNPs were
further grouped by their mutational motifs under following
subhaplogroups: B4a1a1, M7b1, P1, P2, P3, P4b, Q1, and Q2 (see SI
Table 3 and SI Fig. 4 for further details) (30, 33, 43, 51).

Most NG (40/48) and approximately one-half of Aboriginal Australian
(14/32) mtDNA haplotypes could be sufficiently well characterized
using existing mtDNA haplogroup nomenclature (SI Tables 2 and 3). Of
the 26 mtDNA control region sequences that did not show clear
affiliation to previously described haplogroups, nine Australian and
NG individuals were selected for complete mtDNA sequencing. All
recently characterized mutations that were found during the complete
mitochondrial genome sequencing were typed in individuals with similar
or identical mtDNA control region sequences (SI Table 3).
Multiplex SNP Assay.

A mtDNA multiplex PCR was designed and performed in a reaction volume
of 25 μl containing 1× PCR buffer, 6.5 mM MgCl2, 600 mM each dNTP,
0.01–0.2 mM of each primer (SI Table 4), and 2 units of AmpliTaq Gold
DNA polymerase (Applied Biosystems, Tartu, Estonia). The thermal
cycling program was: denaturation at 95°C for 10 min followed by 35
cycles of 95°C for 30 s, 60°C for 30 s, and 65°C for 30 s, followed by
6 min at 65°C.

Excess primers and dNTPs were removed by addition of 1 μl (1 unit/μl)
of shrimp alkaline phosphatase and 0.02 μl (10 units/μl) of
Exonuclease I (Amersham Pharmacia Biotech, Piscataway, NJ) to 2.5 μl
of PCR product and incubating the mixture at 37°C for 30 min followed
by 80°C for 15 min.

Single-base extension (SBE) reactions were performed in 5 μl with 1 μl
of purified PCR product, 3 μl of SNaPshot (Applied Biosystems), or
SNuPe (Amersham Biosciences, Piscataway, NJ) reaction mix, 0.5 μl of
SBE primer mix (0.01–0.3 mM each primer; see SI Table 5), and 0.5 μl
of water. The SBE primer mix was diluted in 160 mM ammonium sulfate
(Sigma–Aldrich, Helsinki, Finland) to minimize primer-dimer artifacts.
Excess nucleotides were removed by addition of 1 μl (1 unit/μl) shrimp
alkaline phosphatase to the SBE mix and incubation at 37°C for 20 min
followed by incubation at 80°C for 15 min. Two microliters of SBE
product were mixed with 18 μl of Hi-Di formamide (Applied Biosystems)
and 0.1 μl of GeneScan-120 Liz internal size standard (Applied
Biosystems), and analyzed by capillary electrophoresis using ABI Prism
3730XL Genetic Analysers with 50 cm capillary arrays and POP-6 polymer
(Applied Biosystems) or a MegaBACE Analysis System (Amersham
Biosciences). Full methodological and theoretical details are
available elsewhere (57, 58).
Y Chromosome Typing.

Eighteen Y chromosomal markers (M4, M9, M11, M38, M45, M70, M89, M130,
M147, M175, M177, M208, M210, M214, M230, M231, M347, and M356) (SI
Fig. 5) were typed in 25 of the Kalumburu and Bundi samples. One
previously unpublished biallelic M347 marker is reported here. M347
was amplified by using primers (F, 5′-AAGTGGAGGGTATGTTTCAGCC-3′; R, 5′-
GGCAACAATAGGCAGATGGCTC-3′) specific for a single 558-bp amplicon. The
thermal cycling program was: denaturation at 95°C for 3 min followed
by 36 cycles of 95°C for 30 s, 53°C for 30 s, and 72°C for 40 s,
followed by 5 min at 72°C. Nucleotide position 374 A>G
(ancestral>derived) variant was sequenced directly by using one of the
same external primers. The following were additionally genotyped:
haplogroup C* lineages (altogether 13 individuals) from the study by
Kivisild et al. (46) were typed for the presence of the M356 marker
reported by Sengupta et al. (13); NG haplogroup K* lineages from the
study by Underhill et al. (31, 32) were typed for the presence of M230
marker; and the M347 marker was typed in Australian C lineages from
the study by Underhill et al. (31, 32).
Coalescence Age Estimation.

Phylogenetic trees were constructed manually and confirmed by using
the Network software (www.fluxus-engineering.com) (59, 60).
Coalescence ages of mtDNA haplogroups were calculated by the rho (ρ)
statistic as described by refs. 61 and 62 by using the coding region
mutation rate of one synonymous transition per 6,764 years (27).
Previous SectionNext Section
Footnotes

* cTo whom correspondence may be addressed. E-mail:
***@cam.ac.uk or ***@mcdonald.cam.ac.jk
*

Author contributions: T.K., P.A.U., R.V., and P.F. designed
research; G.H., A.A.L., and P.S. performed research; P.E., J.J.S.,
P.O., and P.F. contributed new reagents/analytic tools; G.H., T.K.,
and P.A.U. analyzed data; and G.H., T.K., P.A.U., P.E., J.J.S., C.R.,
R.V., and P.F. wrote the paper.
*

The authors declare no conflict of interest.
*

Data deposition: The sequences reported in this paper have been
deposited in the GenBank database [accession nos. EF495214–EF495222
(complete mtDNA sequences), EF524341–EF524420 (mtDNA HVS-1 sequences),
and EF524421–EF524500 (partial HVS-2 sequences)].
*

This article contains supporting information online at
www.pnas.org/cgi/content/full/0702928104/DC1.
* Abbreviations:

NG,
New Guinea;
SBE,
single-base extension.

* © 2007 by The National Academy of Sciences of the USA

Previous Section

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kangarooistan
2009-05-14 14:08:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jack Linthicum
Archaeological data indicate the intensification of density and
complexity of different stone tools in Australia during the Holocene
period and the emergence of backed-blade stone-tool technology (15).
The first Dingoes (Canis lupus dingo) also appear at about the same
time (3,500–4,000 years ago) and were proposed to have been introduced
by new human arrivals, from India (16), along with new stone tool
types (17). This debate is ongoing (15, 18, 19).
Recent molecular studies on humans have likewise yielded a diversity
of interpretations, ranging from a deep but undated split
distinguishing Australians even from their immediate neighbors to the
north in NG (20) to a very recent immigration event within the
Holocene in the past 10,000 years (21, 22).
Hi Jack

Kanga does not claim wide sread contact,even though this may have
occurred , Kanga is only able to speak on the one site in South
Australia with which I have spend much time investigating

The local, Peramangk peoples , had contact only with the two adjacent
groups , with which they do share much language ,BUT the Peramangk
peoples were accepted as DIFFERENT , in many ways , the mine is
central within their territory AND would likely be off limits to out
side tribes until recently when Europeans forced the Peramangk ever
further into the central deserts , of special interest to me is a
central Australian group who indeed seem to be from MILANG, the sea
port with a safe anchorage close to the mine site , I often wonder WHY
they now live in the western deserts until you learn that's what
happened to local native peoples , they moved further and further into
the deserts as Europeans spread out

A very interesting site , there is an entire field of researchers who
are exploring this topic and I look on with much interest but nothing
to contribute on the topic

sanero

I myself have noted this in the history research I have done

NOT wide spread contact / migration , but there does seem a very
strong case that CAN be found in the DNA / tools / linguistic record
IMHO is as clear as daylight

Im gathering a few more details on this link , for thse wishing to get
into it a bit deeper there is no feed back but a good pic of the iron
tool and location details for those able to do a field trip

My research leaves me in no doubt at all this is the Turin mine site

http://docs.google.com/Doc?id=dcgk9t7p_6hm5bqkfc&hl=en

Peramangk are the local native peoples but most now live up north .,
with the Arabunna and into the western deserts Martu peoples



From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, search

The Peramangk are an Indigenous Australian people whose traditional
lands are primarily located in Adelaide Hills but also in the southern
stretches of the Fleurieu Peninsula, South Australia.

They were also referred to as the Mount Barker tribe, as their
numbers were noted to be greater around the Mount Barker summit[1],
but Peramangk country extended from the Barossa Valley in the north,
south to Myponga, east to Strathalbyn and west to the Gulf St Vincent.
Contents
[hide]

* 1 Overview
* 2 Family Groups and Territories
* 3 Dreaming Stories Associated with Peramangk Lands and People
* 4 Geography of Peramangk country
o 4.1 Lands of the Peramangk
o 4.2 Place names
* 5 Observations
* 6 A Peramangk Family Tree
* 7 The Stages of Life of the Women of the Karnumeru (Hill People)
* 8 Stages of Life of Peramangk Men
* 9 References ==
* 10 External links

[edit] Overview

Conflicting reports show enmity between the three tribes of the
Adelaide region, Kaurna, Ngarrindjeri and Peramangk, yet other reports
tell that the Peramangk were held with some reverence due to their
differing cultural practices.[2]

Population and traditional practices are hard to verify as shortly
after the European settlement of the Adelaide Hills, especially in
Mount Barker and Hahndorf, the Peramangk had been wiped out by
introduced diseases.[3]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peramangk

Martu
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, search

Martu may refer to

* an ancient Middle Eastern people; see Amorite.
* the deity they worshipped; see Amurru.
* a Sumerian god; see Martu
* an Australian Aboriginal people.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martu
Greatest Mining Pioneer of Australia of all Times
2009-05-16 19:02:44 UTC
Permalink
On May 14, 4:08 pm, kangarooistan <***@gmail.com> wrote:

On May 14, 4:08 pm, kangarooistan <***@gmail.com> wrote:

Dear Mr Kanga,

I have read thoroughly Jack Linthicum input in answer to your previous
post.
Please do not waste your time with such absolutely idiotic ranting
derived from official Geological Theories especially the obnoxious
ones spread by Cambridge & Oxford, and derived from on a most
fraudulent Column of Ages based on fossils and secondly on alleged C14
dating, while those Retards have ( and you should remember at all time
what I have taught you ) the Earth is not stable on orbit and drifting
within the UPL frameword towards less Cosmic Pressure system ...
It follows that the 1/2 lives nucleides on which are founded that
cretinism dating admit as Pristine Dogma both the Stability of Earth
on Orbit from Creation ( or accretion which is the same thing ) and
the constant rate of Atomic nuclueus radio- activity !

Regarding now the other point brought forth by Jack, and this is some
conclusion based in the Human genome, again ( as I have told you
before as well ) the DNA code is readily affected by circumcision &
excision in both then male & female ! This is why again those
Universities retards whose none of them are aware not able to accept
such finding ( since giving immediate hope to Down syndrome
children ... remember dizeazezz are a juicy business ) completely
evacuate the terrible endocrinal tempering which is in fact those
abominable sexual torture & their immediate consequences upon the
Human genome indeed !


As I have warned you before, DO NOT GIVE AWAY THOSE PRECIOUS FINDINGS
TO THOSE MONOLITHIC THINKING ZOMBIFIED INTELLECTUAL SLAVES WHICH ARE
ALL THE OXFORD CAMBRIDGE & US BASED ARCHEOLOGISTS ... by construction
those brain washed Bougredanes are unable to understand the importance
of your find and if they can't grab it for themselves, they will play
it down and definitively brush it under the carpet Remember again what
I have told you about the dealing with Glozel with top Oxford & Paris
archeologists did to Glozel & the most extraordinary archeological
finding of the last century ! This official Rabble has names of course
and this the Abbé Breuil, Dr Evans & its assistant Miss Garrod )

Please dear Mr Kanga, do not waste your time with these definitive
toadyish ignorant ! As you should have noted the paper proposed by
Jack was anoted by "Pair submission" and this the proof that your
very finding is doomed to be recognized as the FAM ( Fabian Ancient
Mine ) and to be credited to you ! Again do trust ONLY ITALIAN & GREEK
ARCHAEOLOGISTS FOR DERIVING THE PROPER CONCLUSIONS FROM YOUR
DISCOVERY !

WHY WASTE TIME WITH UNIVERSITIES BOUGREDANES WHILE THE BEST AT
FLORENCE TURINO ROME OR ATHENS etc are available to help you and
support you !
Please ask yourself the following question : Who are the sterile
without even a water well to their credit, who are the parasites who
rely on pair review before expressing any view, who are those Cretins
who believe that the immense carbonate formations covering the Earth
are due to fossils reduction and the immense fields of rounded pebbles
due to Glaciers actions !

11 700 years ago Australia except it present lever above 400 MSL was
underwater and the Pilbara was then the Earth Magnetic pole with a
position on the Ecliptic 1 millions Km closer to Mother star ! See,
neither the religious nor the scientific sects have any clues to that
reality !


With best regards

Sir Jean-Paul Turcaud
Australia Mining Pioneer
#Discoverer & Legal Owner of Telfer Mine ( Australia largest Copper &
Gold MIne)
Nifty (Cu) & Kintyre (U, Th) Mines, all in the Great Sandy Desert
#Discoverer recently of 4 subsea deposits of Gold amounting to 100
millions tons
Exploration Geologist & Offshore Consultant (bus ph : +33 6 50 17 14
64)
Founder of the True Geology

~ Ignorance is the Cosmic Sin, the One Never Forgiven ~


for background info.
http://www.tnet.com.au/~warrigal/grule.html
http://users.indigo.net.au/don/tel/index.html
http://users.indigo.net.au/don/tel/nac.html
http://members.iimetro.com.au/~hubbca/turcaud.htm
http://www.abc.net.au/rn/talks/bbing/stories/s28534.htm
True Geology Foundation document :
http://www.americanchronicle.com/articles/69327
kangarooistan
2009-05-17 03:20:34 UTC
Permalink
Hi Sir JPT

gee mate , kanga knows nothing of cutting edge science mate of
genetics or higher geology , kanga only knows what he can "see " in
the field , even that is so vast Kanga will never finish study of the
simple stuff , the area of genetics is far too complex and you need
skills I don't have , I understand animals and meat real well ,,

but rocks and mining in South Australia and the FAM in particular ,
kanga IS AN EXPERT , with vast field knowledge unmatched by anybody ,
its GENETIC and in the blood and I can "smell" if a rock has been
moved by man, ask those who go into the field with me , Im like a
blood hound , and can spot a tiny pebble in a heap that does NOT
belong there , comes from YEARS of practice as you understand Sir
JPT , kanga is like a fish out of water in the city , but like a hand
in a glove in a mine site

as you know mate kangas family has had very close contact with the
South Australian mining industry for a very long time

great Grandpa Fabian still has his NAME on the biggest gold mine in
the STATE 100 years ago ," Fabians number one shaft" at Tarcoola
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tarcoola,_South_Australia
but the white christians and jews stole it ,and now rip hundreds of
million every year out of " Fabian Quartzite ' in the
challenger mine
It produced 43,547 troy ounces of gold in the year to 30 June 2005 and
108,080 ounces in 2006.[1]

The mine has a reserve of 512,000 ounces of gold from a resource of 1
million ounces of gold as of June 2007.

gold at over 1000 an oz , a billion dollar mine
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Challenger_Mine

ALL mined out of south Australian " fabian Quartzite "
http://www.google.com.au/search?client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-US%3Aofficial&channel=s&hl=en&q=fabian+quartzite&meta=&btnG=Google+Search

And great grandpa KEY and his 4 sons [ and 5 daughters ] were all
atone time , working servicing the south Australian mining industry
as '' teamsters " , as is well documented , but little celebrated ,
for literally carrying the mining industry in and out of the
Australian deserts , where white men DIED in a few hours , Grandpa
died aged 84 having walked the inland deserts all his working life ,
no WONDER his 560 children are so tough , and when white christians
and jews no longer needed transport the madeit legal to shhoot
camels , and their owners too if possible and STEAL all their babies
.
Many camels, formerly used for freighting, became redundant, and large
numbers were destroyed following a Camels Destruction Act in 1925. ...
.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stolen_Generation
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Half-caste_act




Kanga has proof , as you do too , that our work and that of my parents
grand parents and their grandparents only ever got reported as white
christian capitalists credit , those doing the work and the
discoveries always get written out of history by the jews and
christians so kanga will wait till the western taxpayers have been
bled to death by USA and Israel before releasing all the findings mate

We do the work and discover the stuff , and the white christian and
jewish capitalists take ALL the credit , and ALL the profit and KILL
us to hide their crimes

Been that way for thousands of years it seems , they discovered
Uranium over 2000 years ago and its clear to me WHERE they got it from
as you will see when you visit

I and my sons have spent much time and expense researching this mine
site , and now we have the PROOF the site is indeed an ancient mine
from about 3000 years ago , and there is now no doubt about it

All the EXPERTS and their white christian capitalist and jewish
supporters will try and hijack our work and or twist it to suit their
version of history, probably destroy anything that upsets their
version of history

I dont trust any white christian or jewish person having seen how
they butchered history in the middle east and in Australia to match
their version of history , WHY trust them AGAIN mate , we know they
can never learn respect

there is vast amounts of evidence of vast mining activity of a very
long time ago here in south Australia mate and it will turn white
christian version of world history on its head

most ancient mines were so big the experts can not see them , they
think ancient peoples were dumb , vast mines , even by todays mines ,
must have been several thousand years of mining IMHO , and it seems to
have ENDED about 3200 years ago , which matches the economic collapse
that led to endless war and decline of ancient Egypt starting about
then and the decline continued for over 1500 years indeed it only
returned to its former golden era when ISLAM took back control fora
thousand years and when Muslims AGAIN rule REAL experts can AGAIN
flourish and war mongers who only use science to build weapons are
jailed

We all know what jews are good at

Making money out of wars and weapons , like NOBEL and NUKES

kanga is very old and has great difficulty with computers , but
computers do make it much much easier to do the research from the
ancient world

Have you stopped to wonder how this came to be buried in South
Australia in ancient mine waste
http://picasaweb.google.com/kangarooistan9/KangarooistanOldIronToolProofTurinPapyrusGoldMineIsInSouthAustraliaTestImages#5335900216165640418

Found UNDER the ancient iron tool

Appears to be leather with iron tannin and resin and radio active
PURPLE DYE
Uranium has the highest atomic weight of the naturally occurring
elements. Uranium is approximately 70% denser than lead, but not as
dense as gold

Uranium is used as a colorant in uranium glass, producing orange-red
to lemon yellow hues.

Hydrochloric and nitric acids dissolve uranium, but nonoxidizing acids
attack the element very slowly.[6] When finely powdered, it can react
with cold water; in air, uranium metal becomes coated with a dark
layer of uranium oxide.[5]and can be recovered from mineral sands by
simple gravity refining methods

The use of uranium glass dates back to at least 79 AD,[4] the date of
a mosaic containing yellow glass with 1% uranium oxide found in a
Roman villa on Cape Posillipo in the Bay of Naples, Italy by R. T.
Gunther of the University of Oxford in 1912.

Let me show you WHERE they got the Uranium from mate

http://picasaweb.google.com/kangarooistan9/KangarooistanOldIronToolProofTurinPapyrusGoldMineIsInSouthAustraliaTestImages#

give you one GUESS what the yellow stuff is

seems they used Uranium to produce the red / purple DYE in their red
cloth and leather over 3200 years ago

purple may have been discovered as early as the time of the Minoan
civilization. Alexander the Great (when giving imperial audiences as
the emperor of the Macedonian Empire), the emperors of the Seleucid
Empire, and the kings of Ptolemaic Egypt wore Tyrian purple. The
imperial robes of Roman emperors were Tyrian purple trimmed in
metallic gold thread. The badge of office of a Roman Senator was a
stripe of Tyrian purple on their white toga.[10]

they STILL cant work out where the purple really came from or WHY it
vanished several thousand years ago
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Han_Purple

Seems to be probably leather "Armour " used at the time and MAY ??? be
buried in / with what seems to be a selection of local ochers /
pigment powders / is this part of the grave goods ??? from the mine
cemetery ???in SOUTH AUSTRALIA 3200 years ago

If so , then I have ALSO discovered the cemetery which they don't show
on the Turin papyrus , as well as a Uranium mine and the source of
purple found in Tutankhamen tomb

If so I have also discovered a VAST VAST heavy mineral sands mine
mine biggest on earth at the time , not sure what they were after ,
but they sure moved a vast amount of sand looking for something , so
big NOBODY will believe it , so it remains in the research stage until
we secure the FAM site , but when you visit I will point it out mate ,
you will spot it in minutes

Again there wont be ANY treasures, miners NEVER got to keep treasures

Miners , same as today they SELL the treasure to the rich peoples ,
and the mine site is left with nothing moveable of value when mining
finished

The history is the only thing left, and it must have been Phoenician/
sea peoples from the very early iron age cultures ,

There are MANY rich mines being worked in South Australia

These were worked out 3200 years ago , they have ALL be examined many
times by modern miners , there is NO PAYABLE minerals left

The ancient miners got 95% recovery

With no valuable artifacts and nothing the white christians or jews
want to hear it wont be easy to fund the research mate , the white
christians and jews will prefer we don't expose their fabricated
versions of history as FRAUDULENT myths

We may best leave it alone until AFTER this war is over , once white
christians and jews all run out of money and they get exposed as the
REAL terrorists and have been for centuries , only then will it be
safe to continue our research

Perhaps then we can get funding to further research the TRUE history
of these ancient mines

They clearly come from the time of Solomon and jews and christians
have BUTCHERED sites to make believe they SUPPORT jewish and christian
myths , no REAL archaeologist would let a jew or a christian near a
site from this ERA , they happily destroy every thing they discover
that clashes with their holy books and have done so for centuries

The Linguistic artifacts can easily identify who was running the mines

Clearly the brown skinned Aboriginal peoples were supplying the manual
labour
-----------------------------------------------------
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canaan
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaurna
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peramangk
If this is a 3000 year old gold mine these 3 groups must share
language culture and DNA
----------------------------------------------------------------

Local Aboriginal people continued to mine minerals in exactly the same
way until very very recently , simply pound it into powder by hand
with a rock mortar and pestle
http://images.google.com.au/images?client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-US%3Aofficial&hl=en&q=aboriginal+grinding+stone&btnG=Search+Images&gbv=2

Aboriginal peoples ground up rocks to make ocher powders for various
needs , this IS MINING and they did it for thousands of years , but
seems gold was of no value , no kings or capitalists ?

Ochers from this district can be found in art all over the continent
and PROBABLY even in the ancient world , though ocher is found every
where so others would use their own mostly

To really do justice to the topic it needs to be done properly and an
entire state study done to get the big picture in place

The FAM may not be the only mine , nor even the biggest mine, I have
many other similar sites that have some unanswered questions that now
require ANOTHER look ,it will take years and cash , both in short
supply so the next generations may carry on the research after me

The public have grown used to seeing really clever doco type
presentations , and thats my weakness , and the cost is prohibitive
too , my boys need income so only have a few days a year and a few
hours a week to spend on research that yields no cash

We who work on the ground know its not that " sexy' in the field , a
tiny piece of evidence can help build a big picture that most sheeple
would laugh at if they saw how little stuff is actually found , and
how it looked when found

Its clear the Martu peoples of the Ancient world left behind much
evidence indeed , not JUST their languages and millions of tons of
wastes rock



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martu
Martu
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, search

Martu may refer to

* an ancient Middle Eastern people; see Amorite.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amorite
* the deity they worshipped; see Amurru.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amurru
* a Sumerian god; see Martu
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martu_(Sumerian_god)
* an Australian Aboriginal people.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martu_(Indigenous_Australian)

Thank GOD the western taxpayers will soon be unable to pay their
soldiers to destroy other peoples cultures and rape murder pillage and
plunder the globe for USA and Israel to hide the TRUTH

kanga
=====
s***@neuf.fr
2009-05-18 05:16:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by kangarooistan
Hi Sir JPT
gee mate , kanga knows nothing of cutting edge science mate of
genetics or higher geology , kanga only knows what he can "see " in
the field , even that is so vast Kanga will never finish study of the
simple stuff , the area of genetics is far too complex and you need
skills I don't have , I understand animals  and meat real well ,,
Do not worry dear Mr Kanga, what you call cutting science does not
know the first word about the genetic manipulation resulting from
Circumcision or from blood sucking & carrion feeding !
Nor does it know anything related to the Endocrine system being the
interface to the Human genome !
Nor does it know anything about the cure of Down syndrome children
whose cause seen presently as genetic defect, is in fact the
consequence of the atrophy of a specific endocrine gland !

Just like in Geology, Economy, History & Medecine of course, the
Universities brainwashed animal reasons along mole tunnels of
inductive or deductive logic, and is in fact on railway lines
maintaining it clearly anticipated results : At the Fossil Brain level
indeed ! The one incidentally used by the JIC sects to keep their
flock in line and keep the lead on Human kind at large

No major discoveries can be made then except by stepping out of the
programmed way of reasoning, but due to the fact that the sheeple at
large use it, any outstanding breakthrough cannot be accepted except
by the new generations before stratification or calcification or
sclerosis sets in ! See ?

In any case coming back to your interest & to the FAM discovery, what
I have said will explain why everything will be done to rob from you
something which questions the certitude of the scientific animals
masquerading as scholars most of the time !

With best regards

Sir Jean-Paul Turcaud
Australia Mining Pioneer
kangarooistan
2009-05-18 13:40:33 UTC
Permalink
No point kanga trying to understand medical stuff mate ,I have little
faith in doctors , but little real understanding of the topic either
mate

Its way over my head
http://picasaweb.google.com/kangarooistan9/KangarooistanSmiling#
Post by s***@neuf.fr
Just like in Geology, Economy, History & Medecine of course, the
Universities brainwashed animal reasons along mole tunnels of
inductive or deductive logic, and is in fact on railway lines
maintaining it clearly anticipated results : At the Fossil Brain level
indeed ! The one incidentally used by the JIC sects to keep their
flock in line and keep the lead on Human kind at large
But I agree it will take decades until the next generation of
Archaeologists and historians will admit the Turin Papyrus gold mine
is indeed in South Australia

we can only " discover " the evidence mate

Its up to the EXPERTS to take the time to examine it

we can not force them and they only do what somebody PAYS them to do

we understand what motivates THEM mate

Kanga is very patient , those that can NOT "see" the facts from the
information i GAVE them , are unworthy of my time , I have plenty more
discoveries to make and not much spare time mate

As you know we are at war and all western economies are imploding
around us and there are opportunities screaming out for my time and
expertise, the FOOLS could not " see' an opportunity if it bit them on
the bum , or was handed to them on a plate

I wont waste MY time trying to educate fools mate
http://docs.google.com/Doc?docid=dcgk9t7p_6hm5bqkfc&hl=en

I have vast amounts of research waiting , and many more mines to
explore , so I wont waste time with more evidence for those who can
NOT see from what I have already given , Why feed them more meaty
evidence , if they can not " see " the easy bits , they are unworthy
of MY time , let them wait for others to do the work then they can
pretend to understand it
http://picasaweb.google.com/kangarooistan9

Those who choose to disbelieve can wait until the next generation
studies the matter , and find Kanga is 100% right AGAIN , as usual
Post by s***@neuf.fr
No major discoveries can be made then except by stepping out of the
programmed way of reasoning, but due to the fact that the sheeple at
large use it, any outstanding breakthrough cannot be accepted except
by the new generations before stratification or calcification or
sclerosis sets in ! See ?
,
,
Post by s***@neuf.fr
In any case coming back to your interest & to the FAM discovery, what
I have said will explain why everything will be done to rob from you
something which questions the certitude of the scientific animals
masquerading as scholars most of the time !
With best regards
Indeed Sir Jean-Paul Turcaud
Post by s***@neuf.fr
Australia Mining Pioneer
BUT having it up online I can now PROVE I , with my sons , AND your
help, did indeed discover it FIRST
http://picasaweb.google.com/kangarooistan9

Wait till I show you the rest mate , it will blow your socks off , and
make you wonder WHY nobody discovered it years ago , closed minds mate

World history will be re written , once I show them where the Ancient
Phoenicians actually harvested and made their famous tyrinian purple ,
that only they knew how to make, and others before and since have
FAILED to make , until now , or to know Why such a desirable
product was not made by others in the area before or since despite its
incredible value ,

once the Phonetician shipping was destroyed , both the green gold
from EMU , AND the tyrinian purple , both vanish from history and
empires descend into endless wars over the remaining gold stored in
treasury , as does the exact location of the Turin Papyrus gold
mine , both being rediscovered by kanga , BOTH in South Australia

no WONDER kanga is grinning from ear to ear
http://picasaweb.google.com/kangarooistan9/KangarooistanOldIronToolProofTurinPapyrusGoldMineIsInSouthAustraliaTestImages#5335900216165640418


They made it in South Australia mate, but don't for GODS sake tell the
experts mate , they ARE far far too dumb to ever understand this if
they can not ' see ' 3 million ton gold mine why bother with a 3000
year old dye manufacturing / farming processing site they still think
was done in TYRE

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tyrian_purple
http://picasaweb.google.com/kangarooistan9/KangarooistanOldIronToolProofTurinPapyrusGoldMineIsInSouthAustraliaTestImages#5335900216165640418
ONLY REAL experts could swallow this discovery mate so DONT ask for
evidence ,wait till I show you , experts must first PROVE they can
think before I feed them real meat , no point choking them mate , you
know how soft the experts are mate, they need things predigested like
babies , South Australian souse of Tyrinian Purple ,is far to meaty
for most experts to wrap their tiny brains around

kanga
=====
http://picasaweb.google.com/kangarooistan9/KangarooistanOldIronToolProofTurinPapyrusGoldMineIsInSouthAustraliaTestImages#5335900216165640418
http://picasaweb.google.com/kangarooistan9/KangarooistanOldIronToolProofTurinPapyrusGoldMineIsInSouthAustraliaTestImages#
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tyrian_purple
Not much is known about the subsequent steps, and the actual ancient
method for mass-producing the two murex dyes has not yet been
successfully reconstructed; this special "blackish clotted blood"
colour, which was prized above all others, is believed to be achieved
by double-dipping the cloth, once in the indigo dye of H. trunculus
and once in the purple-red dye of M. brandaris.[citation needed]

The Roman mythographer Julius Pollux, writing in the second century
BC, asserted (Onomasticon I, 45–49) that the purple dye was first
discovered by Heracles, or rather, by his dog, whose mouth was stained
purple from chewing on snails along the coast of the Levant. Recently,
the archaeological discovery of substantial numbers of Murex shells on
Crete suggests that the Minoans may have pioneered the extraction of
Imperial purple centuries before the Tyrians. Dating from collocated
pottery suggests the dye may have been produced during the Middle
Minoan period in the 20th–18th century BC.[11]

The production of Murex purple for the Byzantine court came to an
abrupt end with the sack of Constantinople in 1204, the critical
episode of the Fourth Crusade. David Jacoby concludes that "no
Byzantine emperor nor any Latin ruler in former Byzantine territories
could muster the financial resources required for the pursuit of murex
purple production. On the other hand, murex fishing and dyeing with
genuine purple are attested for Egypt in the tenth to thirteenth
centuries."[12] By contrast, Jacoby finds that there are no mentions
of purple fishing or dyeing, nor trade in the colorant in any Western
source, even in the Frankish Levant. The European West turned instead
to vermilion provided by the insect Kermes vermilio, known as grana,
or crimson, known as cochineal.

[edit] Dye chemistry

The main chemical constituent of the Tyrian dye was discovered by Paul
Friedländer in 1909 to be 6,6′-dibromoindigo, a substance that had
previously been synthesized in 1903.[13] However, it has never been
synthesized commercially.[14][15]


But no point choking people with too much new discoveries all at once

Those who care to research my first mine site can prove they are ready
for the NEXT lesson in ancient history

Im far too busy to bother wasting my time on the EXPERTS who's EGO
prevent their brains from working
http://picasaweb.google.com/kangarooistan9/KangarooistanOldIronToolProofTurinPapyrusGoldMineIsInSouthAustraliaTestImages#5335900216165640418

kanga
======

kangarooistan
2009-05-08 15:25:27 UTC
Permalink
find help
Indeed Jack

kanga has been working on the site in south Australia for 50 years so
far and its time the next generation started to carry on the research
for answers as to what the site in south Australia is about

Now that i have a may of the Turin papyrus gold mine it ALL adds up it
is time to find help

Kanga certainly is no expert on ancient Egypt or ancient mining

Kanga is a expert on he South Australian mine site and when I
stumbled on the Turin papyrus was convinvced somebody had mistakenly
included a map of the south Australian mine site as an ancient
manuscript

Having established the Turin Manuscript is indeed GENUINE , it simply
means that the experts have been mistaken about WHERE the ancient mine
is located

If the Turin papyrus is genuine , then he gold mine shown , IS IN
SOUTH AUSTRALIA

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turin_Papyrus_Map

There can be no other explanation

Of course I will need help in due time

Whats WHY I am making inquiries on these groups

If anybody can show me where else the mine is , it may help if their
site matches the map , the site claiming to be the mine contains
NOTHING over 2000 years old and the map is 3000 years old and the site
in Egypt needs to turn the map upside down to put the sea on the right
side and even THEN NOTHING MATCHES , not a single feature on the map
can be matched even remotely

EVERY FEATURE ON THE MAP CAN BE SEEN CLEARLY IN SOUTH AUSTRALIA
EXACTLY AS SHOWN ON THE MAP

There remains only one place where every last detail on the map can be
seen and that is IN SOUTH AUSTRALIA

And the evidence builds every day , as seen when prospecting , the
more you examine a fact the clearer the picture becomes , IF YOU ARE
ON THE RIGHT TRACK

Its only a matter of time till the FACTS speak for themselves

There can be no mistake about the site , it exists and can be tested
and examined , and in time will be

It matters not what I or you think or believe , the SITE and the MAP
will speak for themselves

kanga
=====
Matt Giwer
2009-04-29 05:38:17 UTC
Permalink
kangarooistan wrote:

Some years ago I created this overlay of pre and post WWI Europe to visualize
the changes. http://www.giwersworld.org/wwii/maps/eu1419a.html

If you wish to show the Egyptian and Australian features are the same then
you can create a similar map or at least scale them so seeing them side by
side highlights their similarities and inevitable differences.

However you are still faced with the problem of only one out of place object
which could potentially be of Egyptian origin. We would rightly expect
evidence of their domesticated animals and grains in Australia. May I also
point out the ancient Egyptians would have no intrinsic military superiority
over the natives, that is, no guns as did the Brits. We would also expect to
find the remains of many dead Egyptians.

Again I do not see you have much of a case and certainly not one that can be
based upon one out of place object.
--
Surprising these days how few realize Planets of the Apes started
as the fantasy story of a shipwrecked goy coming ashore on the
hidden Jewish state of Israel.
-- The Iron Webmaster, 4134
http://www.giwersworld.org/holo3/ a12
Wed Apr 29 01:29:46 EDT 2009
kangarooistan
2009-04-29 09:46:11 UTC
Permalink
        Some years ago I created this overlay of pre and post WWI Europe to visualize
the changes.
http://www.giwersworld.org/wwii/maps/eu1419a.html

Nice work Matt

Kanga is an old hobby prospector , barely computer literate mate

As you know I recently found an old iron tool , my son has offered to
take for further examination and we can not go much further until its
been examined

I was online and noticed a map for the Turin Papyrus hand drawn on a
site I visited and immediately saw every feature of the mine site I
have been puzzled over for 50years sitting before me

I assumed it must be a joke

I see the original Turin Papyrus appears real

The features are CLEARLY identified and explained

Matt , I need no convincing mate

I have crawled over every sq inch of the mine site many times

Im intimately aware the site is VERY unusual , and where the feature
are that puzzel me

I have examined 10000 other sites that need no further work

This site is FULL of un answered questions , until now

I have all the evidence I need , it is rolled gold evidence of the
very best kind

I have an original map AND the original mine site , joining the two
will be very very easy

I dont have the skill nor money yet to produce maps like you show
here

Im not sure what the next step may be

I discover they really dont have any site in Egypt , that matches the
" gold map " , but seem to have located the quarries in the later
section of the Papyrus and lumped the " gold mine " in for good
measure with other mining activity papyrus they found , seemed logical
at the time and nobody would ever notice assuming an EXPERT had
examined it
        If you wish to show the Egyptian and Australian features are the same then
you can create a similar map or at least scale them so seeing them side by
side highlights their similarities and inevitable differences.
Indeed Matt , this WILL happen , Its moving quite fast , I assumed
there would be somebody familiar with the supposed Egyptian mine
site , but there is NO Egyptian mine site to challenge

Now I know I have found a REAL ancient map , and I know the sites 20
anomalies are all in EXACTLY the same places marked on the Turin map ,
as are the roads , rivers direction of south the hills at the lower
edge , the water cistern

Its all over grown and very degraded by time , but it is man made not
a natural landscape

Its in the bag Matt

I will be happy to find some way to confirm my findings

Some visiting expert will offer a few hours to inspect the site and
advise where to go from here

It could be interesting , as it is the oldest known mining map
according to the museum

To now have its location known , will be a very interesting discovery

The FACTS are the FACTS , its no longer a matter of looking for old
bones

I looked online for a google map but its pretty ordinary

I have an old colour aerial photo I bought years ago and many paper
maps

I have dug and examined the site personally and would myself have
created an exact map as that in the museum if asked to recreate an
artists impression

It will need a acknowledge expert in the field to look at the evidence
in the field , to look at the site one identifiably area at a time ,
with a trained eye after 2000 or 2500 years there is not much left ,
but there IS signs , I noticed them and they together so prefectly
match the Turin Papyrus it leave no doubt at all

I will locate a patient expert, perhaps a retired one , visiting the
state , and free to explore the local sites , no point showing a
hundred tourists or even 100 of my mates

I need to find a expert familiar with ancient mining in Egypt 3000
years ago , who has a few hours free, and an open mind , it will be
the most rewarding few hours of his / her life

Rewriting history
        However you are still faced with the problem of only one out of place object
which could potentially be of Egyptian origin. We would rightly expect
evidence of their domesticated animals and grains in Australia. May I also
point out the ancient Egyptians would have no intrinsic military superiority
over the natives, that is, no guns as did the Brits. We would also expect to
find the remains of many dead Egyptians.
Do a DNA test on the Local Aboriginals mate , hint , look for the
"Phonetician Y chromosome"

Evidence of mining activity need not mean Egyptian miners were used on
the edges of the world in a modest size mine

It need not mean slavery or military activity either

i dont think a military operation could survive so far from home at
that time
        Again I do not see you have much of a case and certainly not one that can be
based upon one out of place object.
I find the best evidence in all history , and you question its worth

An ORIGINAL map 3160 years old , buried out of context in an Italian
museum , and an Egyptiam gold mine buried under over 2000 years of
litter , 5000 km from where is was supposed to be located , with
every historian on earth convinced Im wrong , its HARD evidence of
the very best kind Matt

Map AND the MINE still exist , they ARE the evidence , they can not be
forged fabricated or disputed

I expect an uphill battle mate

Thank GOD the facts will speak for themselves , once they are
EXAMINED

'its a PERFECT match , its hard evidence ,like fingerprints 3160 years
old , over 20 reference points , every one in place , the odds are a
million to one of it being wrong , and you don't like my chances

Golly matt

What MORE could you want mate

Its a researchers DREAM , its already a proven fact ,

You over head projection is exactly what I can do in my mind . i can
view the site from above as I have crawled every inch , I have maps
and over head photos already of the present day site

the Turin Papyrus is an over head projection , interestingly the
Egyptians of the time drew maps with South at the Top, and that itself
is very important , several roads on the map point to the sea , off to
the LEFT of the site , on roads still in use today

The sites can not be in Egypt , as with south at the top the sea is
to the right

the distance between any two , man made objects marked on the map ,
should set a scale for locating the other man made objects if Im right
Greatest Mining Pioneer of Australia of all Times
2009-04-30 07:22:34 UTC
Permalink
On Apr 29, 11:46 am, kangarooistan <***@gmail.com> wrote:

Dear Mr Kanga,

Can the position of that TEMPLE be identified on that FAM site
map ? ...which FAM lay out according to previous assertion is fitting
the Turin Papyrus map.
(*FAM Fabian Ancient Mine)

Although it might not have not been built in the same cut-stones
structures as the ones in Egypt, but in softer bricks which did not
stand well the test of time
See the conical tower of Great Zimbabwe, a construction obviously
which cannot be credited to Negroes, but to higher developed
populations able to conceive & especially to cut the stones square
with the appropriate tools which the Negroes have never been able to
developed ... and further to realize a beautiful building in 3
dimensions lasting 1000s of years
Loading Image...

Only pre-Aborigines would have been able to mine anything at all of
extent.

Could you please confirm to me that Aborigines as the Negroes of
Africa indulge is sexual mutilation of both male and female children !
Thank you !

With best regards

jpturcaud
kangarooistan
2009-04-30 13:47:25 UTC
Permalink
On Apr 30, 4:22 pm, Greatest Mining Pioneer of Australia of all Times
Post by o***@neuf.fr
Dear Mr Kanga,
Can the position of that TEMPLE be identified on that FAM site
map ? ...which FAM lay out according to previous assertion is fitting
the Turin Papyrus map.
(*FAM Fabian Ancient Mine)
Although it might not have not been built in the same cut-stones
structures as the ones in Egypt, but in softer bricks which did not
stand well the test of time
See the conical tower of Great Zimbabwe, a construction obviously
which cannot be credited to Negroes, but to higher developed
populations able to conceive & especially to cut the stones square
with the appropriate tools which the Negroes have never been able to
developed ... and further to realize a beautiful building in 3
dimensions lasting 1000s of years
 http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/9e/Great_Zimbabwe_(Do...
Only pre-Aborigines would have been able to mine anything at all of
extent.
Could you please confirm to me that Aborigines as the Negroes of
Africa indulge is sexual mutilation of both male and female children !
Thank you !
With best regards
jpturcaud
Indeed Sir JPT

The site is a gold mine on the far edge of the world

The site uses descriptions that may be overstating there importance
when compared to a mine in Egypt

Images of grand palaces simply would not actually be expected

The lay out and the construction would fit the purpose

Naturally we need to translate what is said ,but standing on site with
a map and walking the distance and direction indicated leads you to
EXACTLY what you expect to see at a mine of the ear at the edge of
the empire , not at the center

The mine managers residence is described and located and constructed
as you expect with his staff nearby and the roads connecting the sites
features can all be identified as can the port used to service the
mine

The detail on the map is far far more accurate that you may suspect ,
tiny detail gains meaning once you are on site that I wont go into as
you need to actually stand in several positions to see what it really
is on the map ,

It going to re write Australian history

I thought I would need to leave it to my sons to finish the research
mate

But after tomorrow I think we can assume to matter settled

The" Fabian Ancient Mine 1 " is over 3160 years old as the map is ,
and probably MUCH older and is in SOUTH AUSTRALIA

The facts can not be denied , Its only a matter of getting the
experts to slowly catch up

kanga
=====
kangarooistan
2009-04-29 13:14:05 UTC
Permalink
TOPOGRAPHIC AND GEOLOGIC CONTENT OF THE MAP
Loading Image...
note south appears at top of Ancient Egyptian maps

The Turin papyrus map is notable for being the only
topographic map to survive from ancient Egypt and also for being one
of the earliest maps in the world with real geographic content.
Although there are a few older topographic maps from outside Egypt,
they are all quite crude and rather abstract in comparison to the
relatively modern-looking map drawn on the Turin papyrus. This map
shows a 15 km stretch of Wadi Hammamat (‘Valley of Many Baths’) in the
central part of Egypt’s Eastern Desert (Figure 1).
=============================================================
The top is oriented toward the south and the source of the Nile River
with west on the right side , and east to the sea is left.

Its confusing for the modern eye to reverse the map , hence my claim
the famous " gold mine ' depicted is not in Egypt , as it was made he
by the most famous Egyptologist of his day and he was an eye witness
and no fool , he knew which way was to the sea and which way was south
[ top ]

This is PROOF the gold mine pictured is NOT in Egypt , two roads
marked as going to the sea are going in the wrong direction

Number1 Translation



1 the road that leads to the sea



2 another road that leads to the sea
==============================================================
There is no constant scale used on the map, but by comparison with
the actual distances in Wadi Hamamat it is evident that the scale
varies between 50 and 100 m for each 1 cm on the map.

The map of interest " the gold mine "
sections A to d cover about 75 x 45 cm

About 7500 x 4500 meters max , perhaps half that

The Turin Papyrus is reported to be a 2 meters long mining map

I claim the left hand section ,  is different and unrelated to the
rest , it even looks different , I only hold interest in section
marked A , but B , C and D are probable from the same map often
refered to as ' The Gold mine " from the written messages it
contains , the rest are of no interest to me as they refer to mining
stone

the original fragments identified , only the first 4 interest me
Loading Image...
There is writting on the reverse that maybe totallyunrelated recycling
of the old maps , of no interest to me ?
Loading Image...
I claim I know a site that fits the map on the left , in every
detail, and the buildings , roads ,river , hills and valleys  and the
features near the center  , as  marked , are  identifiable still ,The
Turin Papyrus looks as if It was an artists reconstruction drawn
very recently

it is NOT in Egypt

It is in South Australia

Yes I know you have heard this sort of claim before

but if you keep an open mind and examine the FACTS , they claim
there is a site in Egypt , I claim the site is in South Australia

One of us is wrong , the sites can be examined , If it fits like a
glove on this end ,  in minute detail and there is no site in Egypt
that even closely fits its worth digging around a bit to ask WHY

Once both sites are EXAMINED , then laugh at why nobody noticed
before , the far left map is different to the rest , why assume the
section at the start / left / fragments A, B, C and D are the same
area as the other sections , they have nothing in common but mining ,
and i dont recognize them

Turin papyrus in color with description
http://www.eeescience.utoledo.edu/Faculty/Harrell/Egypt/Turin%20Papyrus/Harrell_Papyrus_Map_text.htm

Turin papyrus computer image
http://www.eeescience.utoledo.edu/Faculty/Harrell/Egypt/Turin%20Papyrus/Harrell_Papyrus_Map_fig-3.jpg

The Egyptian Topographic map of the site
Loading Image...
.
the Egyptian site with scripts numbered and laid out on the
topographic map
http://www.eeescience.utoledo.edu/Faculty/Harrell/Egypt/Turin%20Papyrus/Harrell_Papyrus_Map_fig-9.jpg
.
Table 1: Translations of the hieratic texts on the map side of the
Turin papyrus (adapted from Harrell and Brown 1992: Table 1)
http://www.eeescience.utoledo.edu/Faculty/Harrell/Egypt/Turin%20Papyrus/Harrell_Papyrus_Map_table-1.htm

______________________________________________________________

Text

Number1 Translation



1 the road that leads to the sea



2 another road that leads to the sea



3 the road of Tent-p-mer [the translation of the last word
is uncertain –

it may be the name of an unknown locality or it may mean ‘treasurer’
or ‘harbor’]



4 mountains of gold



5 mountains of gold



6 the houses of the gold-working settlement



7 cistern [or ‘water reservoir’; the text is written
on top of the water sign]



8 stela of Menma’atre, life, health and prosperity! [king
Sety I, 1290-1279 BC,

of the New Kingdom’s 19th Dynasty]2



9 the road of Ta-menti [the last word is apparently the
name of an unknown locality]



10 the shrine of Amun of the pure mountain



11 the mountains in which gold is worked, they are
colored pink



12 mountains of gold and silver [or perhaps ‘mountains of
electrum’, where electrum is a natural mixture of gold and silver]=
green gold
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gold#Color_of_gold



13 …the hill of Amun



14 the hill where Amun rests



15 [not translatable; appears to be part of a name for
some locality]


16 [too fragmentary to translate, but it appears to be
comments on travel from one unnamed locality to another; a travel
time of ‘one day’ and ‘gold’ are mentioned]



16’ mountains of gold [appears to be a continuation of 16 but
is a separate text]



17 distance from the gold-working settlement to the mountain
of bekheny,…khet

[this text is repeated three times, apparently for emphasis; the
distance in units of khet is missing]3,4

Besides being a topographic map of surprisingly modern aspect, the
Turin papyrus is also a geologic map because it accurately shows the
geographic distribution of different rock types (the black hills with
Hammamat siliciclastics, and the pink hills with Dokhan volcanics,
Atalla serpentinite and Fawakhir granite) and the lithologically
diverse wadi gravel (the brown, green and white dots within the main
valley that represent different kinds of rocks), and it also contains
information on quarrying and mining (see Table 2 for a description of
the geologic units).

Additionally notable are the representation of iron-stained, gold-
bearing quartz veins with three radiating bands on the pink hill above
the gold-mining settIement on fragment A (beneath text 5), and text 11
on fragment A, which reads very much like a legend on modern geologic
maps by explaining what the pink coloring represents.

The Turin papyrus is the oldest known geologic map in the world and
it is all the more remarkable considering that it would be another
2900 years before the next geologic map was made and this was in
France during the mid-1700’s.

There is no reason to think, however, that the ancient author
intentionally set out to make a geologic map. From the colors used for
the hills and wadi gravel, it is evident that he merely drew what he
literally saw in the desert – the real hills and surface gravels have
the same general colors as those on the map (Table 2).


THE MAP’S AUTHOR AND PURPOSE

The map was made about 1150 BC by the well-known ‘Scribe of the Tomb‘
Amennakhte, son of Ipuy (Figure 11).

Although Amennakhte did not sign his name to the map, it is clear
that he is its author. There are two pieces of evidence that support
this identification.

First, the text on the map side is in Amennakhte’s distinctive
handwriting, which is well known to Egyptologists who have studied his
many other writings. And second, the first and earliest text on the
backside of the papyrus (the first one listed in Table 3) was written
and signed by Amennakhte. It is not at all surprising that Amennakhte
would have made the map


and have spent many decades examining the very unusual features at
this site ,every year growing more and more convinced it is indeed a
VERY large ,  VERY old mine site , predating European settlement by a
VERY long time
Post by kangarooistan
I just stumbled ,  on this old Egyptian map and my jaw dropped
I thought it was a joke
I could have drawn it YESTERDAY
Do you know anybody who has examined the mine in Egypt ???
Its a mirror image of the site in South Australia , hard to imagine
such identical natural and man made features being so similar ,
considering its nature who makes the site

There can be no doubt at all on my end , this IS a map of a mine site
in South Australia

This map called the Turin Papyrus the far left panel ,  is indeed in
South Australia

Do laugh too loud , Im 100% sure , but I know you need more
evidence , that WILL take a while but ,

 WATCH THIS SPACE

kanga
======
kangarooistan
2009-05-08 03:49:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by kangarooistan
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turin_Papyrus_Map
The Turin Papyrus is reported to be a 2 meters long mining map
I claim the left hand section ,  is different and unrelated to the
rest , it even looks different ,
I claim I know a site that fits the map on the left in every detail,
and the buildings , roads ,river , hills and valleys  and the 4
features near the centre  , as  marked , are  identifiable still as if
It was drawn very recently
it is NOT in Egypt
It is in South Australia
Yes I know you have heard this sort of claim before
, but keep an open mind and examine the FACTS , they claim there is a
site in Egypt I claim the site is in South Australia
One of us is wrong , the sites can be examined , it fits like a glove
on this end ,  in minute detail
Once both sites are EXAMINED , then laugh at why nobody noticed
before , the far left map is different to the rest , why assume its
the same area as the other sections
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/ba/TurinPapyrus1.jpghttp://www.reshafim.org.il/ad/egypt/timelines/topics/mining.htmhttp://www.eeescience.utoledo.edu/Faculty/Harrell/Egypt/Turin%20Papyr...
I found this object at the site recentlyhttp://mail.google.com/mail/h/9c8k6m41k4i6/?view=att&th=120e0fd6c757d...
, and have spent many decades examining the very unusual features at
this site ,every year growing more and more convinced it is indeed a
VERY large ,  VERY old mine site , predating European settlement by a
VERY long time
I just stumbled ,  on this old Egyptian map and my jaw dropped
I thought it was a joke
I could have drawn it YESTERDAY
Do you know anybody who has examined the mine in Egypt ???
Its a mirror image of the site in South Australia , hard to imagine
such identical natural and man made features being so similar ,
considering its nature who makes the site
There can be no doubt at all on my end , this IS a map of a mine site
in South Australia
This map called the Turin Papyrus the far left panel ,  is indeed in
South Australia
Do laugh too loud , Im 100% sure , but I know you need more evidence ,
that WILL take a while but ,
 WATCH THIS SPACE
kanga
======
Hi Sir Jean-Paul Turcaud

Thanks for your kind support sir JPT

Kanga will be busy for awhile yet as the evidence piles up much
faster than my old bones can sort through mate

Im trying to package it into a doco to lay it all out nice and orderly

There is no doubt and millions of tons of evidence and hundreds of
individual artifacts left behind that leave no doubts at all mate

the Turin gold mine IS IN SOUTH AUSTRALIA

Its only a matter of time till the doubters will be silenced

They have long ago lost the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan and they are
bleeding slowly to death mate

NOTHING can save them now

Its useless to kick a corpse or a mortally wounded enemy

Leave them to slowly bleed to death in peace mate

DONT GET SHIT ON YOUR BOOTS KICKING THEIR VILE CORPSES

Our time fast approaches mate and our services will be much needed
when they discover they are in DEEP SHIT and they need us to show them
how to get out of the MESS they have created of the planet

We must not waste time kicking their doomed stinking corpses

All they can now do is roll around in the gutter throwing shit all
around in the blind belief they can hide their crimes by silencing the
truth

Im unpacking the connection between the " Phoneticians " who called
themselves kaurna and the coastal Aboriginal peoples of South
Australia who use EXACTLY the same word to describe THEMSELVES
----------------------------------------------------------------------
There are hundreds of words that connect SOUTH AUSTRALIAN Aboriginals
with the sea people / Phoneticians
.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martu
Martu
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, search

Martu may refer to

* an ancient Middle Eastern people; see Amorite.
* the deity they worshipped; see Amurru.
* a Sumerian god; see Martu
* an Australian Aboriginal people.
----------------------------------------------------------

they even LOOK alike in some ways , as does their languages , even
after 3000 years they CAN trace genetic AND linguistic links

no point worrying mate ,Im working on the doco , it will take time
mate

Interesting to examine the genetic / DNA links between the Australian
and Palestinians / Phoenicians
http://images.google.com.au/images?gbv=2&hl=en&safe=off&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-US%3Aofficial&sa=1&q=aboriginal+man&btnG=Search+Images&aq=f&oq=
http://images.google.com.au/images?gbv=2&hl=en&safe=off&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-US%3Aofficial&sa=1&q=palestinian++man&btnG=Search+Images&aq=f&oq=
kanga
=======
The native peoples had their own names for EMU

The local peoples NEVER called themselves Australian Aboriginals

BOTH are outsiders using outsider words from their OUTSIDERS
languanges to describe what they saw

The name 'emu' is not an Aboriginal word.

It appears to have been derived from an Arabic word for large bird.
It was later adopted by early Portuguese explorers and applied to
cassowaries in eastern Indonesia. The term was subsequently
transferred to the Emu by early European explorers to Australia. The
first specimen collected in 1788 by Europeans was from what is now an
inner suburb of Sydney of Redfern.

My point was to suggest that Hapsepshut , from Egypt mentioned green
gold [ 25% silver } from a land called EMU [land of large bird ? ]

There is many references to green gold vrom the land of EMU , my
question is

WHERE IS THIS LAND

Electrum
electrum Electrum is a gold-silver alloy which occurred naturally.
It had a silver contents somewhat higher than twenty percent and its
colour was a pale amber. It was mostly imported from countries south
of Egypt: Punt, Emu, the south countries :

The mine in SOUTH AUSTRALIA has green gold, as does the mine
described in the Turin Papyrus , AND South Australia has LARGE
BIRDS , now called EMUs

I know a large old mine in SOUTH AUSTRALIA that fits every way with
EVERY description

The native peoples call Them Selves , by a name IDENTICAL to the name
we call the sea peoples / Phoneticians / Canaanites called THEMSELVES

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canaan
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canaanite_languages
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaurna_language
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaurna
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peramangk

Ka-na-na , Canaan , is an ancient term for a region encompassing
modern-day Israel and Lebanon, the Palestinian Territories, plus
adjoining coastal lands and parts of Jordan, Syria and northeastern
Egypt.

The Kaurna people are a group of Indigenous Australians whose
traditional lands lie in and around the Adelaide coastal Plains of
South Australia. Kaurna language is the spoken language of the Kaurna
people.

near the ancient mine seen in the Turin Papyrus , that exists IN
SOUTH AUSTRALIA , as does linguistic artifacts and cultural practices
as do genetic ancestor try as does the historic records as does the
opportunity , ability , and need/ desire for gold

If they could build the pyramids and mine and move hundreds of tons
of granite blocks , hundreds of km over land and then up rivers ,
they could EASILY sail the globe to mine GOLD to decorate their
temples to their GODS

I KNOW they could have visited south Australia

The demand for GOLD would provide the MOTIVE

The evidence on the ground , in written records and linguistically ,
as well as boomerangs in the Egyptian tombs , all indicate to me an
over whelming case can be made

The evidence is truly VAST , considering the present mine CLAIMED to
be he Turin gold mine has NOTHING to support its claim

kanga
======

The evidence is overwhelming , when all examined , even after 3000
years since the mining ceased everything that you would expect to
find CAN BE FOUND


3 million tons of mining waste is hard to deny
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